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you have a towel? ‘Cause the irony is dripping from this.
(Camp Justice, Guantanamo Bay)
picture: dunno source, via our lolcat builder. lol caption: radioman
MSNBC: Can the ‘20th hijacker’ of Sept. 11 stand trial?
Mohammed al-Qahtani, detainee No. 063, was forced to wear a bra. He had a thong placed on his head. He was massaged by a female interrogator who straddled him like a lap dancer.
…Continued.
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BUSH– redefining words everyday
HA!
It’s obviously “Camp” Justice because they operate a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy when it comes to torturing prisoners.
Excuse me. As I recall, the people in here are captured combatants. Not civil criminals. Therefore, prisoners of war are held until the end of hostilities. POW’s get no privileges of the nation they are held in. The fact that they were captured on a battlefield with weapons during combat is enough evidence that they are ENEMY combatants.
Want them released? Convince the Taliban to end hostilites and work to broker a deal instead of breaking the peace… consistently.
enemy combatants not having privileges is cool and all…i’d hate to think ov my tax dollars goïng to make sure they get cable TV and pedicures, after all. but we don’t exactly get to take the moral high ground (like we’ve been doïng) if we’re goïng to run around torturing people and then lyïng about it. that’s a little thing called hypocrisy, and it’s the main problem with the current administration. unfortunately, it’s also been the main problem with most ov the administrations ov the past 100+ years.
Human rights are not the same as privilages.
Amen.
And if theres evidence, charge them, if theres not, let them go. Habeus corpus n’all.
If there’s evidence, _hold_ them. That’s what they’re doing. Enemy combatants means they were captured _with evidence that they are the enemy, most likely in a combat state_. That’s all one needs to fulfill Habeus Corpus.
If they have so much evidence then they should just hold a trial, rather than holding the indeffinatley, and using torture to obtain evidence that they should already have.
There are no trials for prisoners of war. There is no habeas corpus. There are no rights. The capturing MILITARY holds the aggressive and dangerous ENEMY MILITARY PERSONNEL against their REJOINING the combat.
I could agree if these people were criminals, but they are NOT. Do you realize that in the second world war, there were Americans who enlisted in the English Army who were captured in 1939 and not liberated until 1945? That is 6 years of torture FAR worse than these people have endured (by the Nazis) without a trial. Or charges. Or rights.
This isn’t the criminal system. This is a declared war we are waging. Learn the difference.
You want to compare the US Military to the Nazis? I’m not going to say I haven’t heard the correlation before but it surprises me to see someone in support of the war/guantanamo drawing that correlation.
Human rights are human rights and the “most powerful” and (formerly) “most respected” country in the world should be the first to respect that.
*rolls his eyes*
Maybe you should learn to read before you try to write…
I said NOTHING that compares the my brothers and sisters in the military to the Nazis. I had recanted my decision not to return. I am sorry that I did. I come here to laugh. This has no humor. At all. Period. The conversation afterword is strictly one party line regurgitated against another. There is no exchange of ideas, only prejudice.
I still maintain, and now will add detail to my previous statement…
If I want to get upset by someone who will twist my words to suit their purposes, I will visit my ex-wife.
Good-bye everyone. Enjoy your putrid bickering.
You were defending our government’s actions of detaining people with the following:
Do you realize that in the second world war, there were Americans who enlisted in the English Army who were captured in 1939 and not liberated until 1945? That is 6 years of torture FAR worse than these people have endured (by the Nazis) without a trial. Or charges. Or rights.
This isn’t the criminal system. This is a declared war we are waging. Learn the difference.
So you’re justifying what we do by saying that the Nazis did it so it must be okay. I was merely pointing out the flaws in your logic.
He wasn’t justifying it with the other example. He was simply showing that it does exist elsewhere in the History of Humanity. And it exists in other societies than the two mentioned here, both of good and bad history/origin/impact.
He said the Nazi’s were worse idiot
Declared war or not, the US is still obligated to follow the Geneva
Convention when dealing with POW’s. This means no waterboarding,
stress positions, and other types of torture being used at Guantanamo
Bay.
Hell yes! Basic human rights were declared at Geneva, and the world today needs to remember that.
Thank you!
woah woah woah, that’s news to me…a declared war?! when did THAT happen?!?! oh yeah…it didn’t. you fail
Trouble is, it’s NOT a declared war. That’s a formality reserved to Congress under the Constitution. An authorization to use military force is not a declaration of war.
Things would be much cleaner if there were a declaration. This fish-or-fowl thing is a way to hide a multitude of sins.
Umm…. Bush has pretty much said he can declare ANYONE he pleases an “enemy combatant”, even if they’re just walking down the street minding their own business. Humanitarian organizations have estimated that approximately 40% of the people being held as “enemy combatants” are innocent. And under international laws, POWs are supposed to be guaranteed certain basic human rights; many of these rights are being denied to those being held.
Despite what you have written, POWs and “Enemy Combatants” are NOT the same things.
POWs are protected under the Geneva Conventions – they have various rights that are protected by International Law.
Enemy Combatants have no rights, and basically don’t exist under the law.
To give you another description – it is a fair bet that the American soldiers captured by the Japanese in World War Two would have been designated “enemy combatants”, and yet most people think the way they were treated was pretty awful.
And so if it was awful back then, why do you seem to think it is acceptable now?
Unless, of course, the Supreme Court of that nation decides to give those war criminals the same rights and privileges as the people of the nation those prisoners want to see destroyed.
Oh… cool, then the Geneva conventions DO apply after all? That means they only have to give name and rank and any kind of interrogation is illegal? And they have to be treated the same (in terms of comforts like TV) as US military personnel?
Or is this again one of those ‘I just follow such rules as are convenient to me?’
Est. 9-11 -07
Nice touch
This is just another picture portrayed by the loony left to take away civil liberties by calling a longstanding policy on enemy combatants and attack on this guy’s rights. What cracks me up is that anyone would believe we should afford the liberties and freedoms belonging to American citizens to someone who would just as soon kill us as look at us. I’ll tell you what if you think holding them in a paradise prison and asking them questions is so bad, why not invivte them to stay aty your house, who knows maybe they can have “after-dinner hate speech with your kids” I just would not expect it to be an open dialogue because when it comes to Jews and Christians this guy will not let you get in a word edgewise. All hail this wonderful peaceful religion called Islam!
Oh. . . now let’s start pulling religion into it. How about Hitler or the KKK, or the Crusades or the Inquisition? All terrible people, groups, or terrorists acts that acted in the name of the “Christian God.” And how the hell do you know what these individuals think about us personally? The only insight you’ve seen into these “terrorists” minds is exactly what American media shows you. And we all know who’s in charge of that now don’t we? The same people who stand to profit from acts of war against them and need the American public to be scared of them. Additionally, if our government has so much incriminating evidence against these people. . . why the hell do they need to torture them to get an admittal? You wanna see a real war crime? How about going against the UNand starting a war with a sovereign nation. . . Please please please stop looking at things through the eyes of American media. . . otherwise we’re gonna be looking down the barrel of totalitarianism before we know it.
Do you remember those things, back in the day, called the Crusades? Yeah, that was a bunch of Christians running around destroying Muslims in the name of spreading Christianity. Hello, kettle? I’m pot. YOU’RE BLACK.
Who’re you calling loony? Why can’t we just lock up all the Crotchwaffles… I mean, they’re the terrorists:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jOAQKzY-aOBqDspFkEAV_ZO65vZAD92718CG0
The Supreme Court just ruled that habeas corpus applies here. ‘Enemy combatant’ is a false designation, a term invented to avoid the legal complications of holding POWs. If they’re POWs, they’e subject to the Geneva Conventions. If they’re regular criminals, they’re entitled to the usual protections under US law. So Yoo and Ashcroft came up with this third designation, which can be applied to anyone indiscriminately whether alien or citizen. John Walker Lindh and Jose Padilla are American citizens, regardless of their political and religious beliefs, and therefore entitled to all the protections of the Constitution. If they’re guilty of crimes, let them be tried as criminals, let them hear the evidence against them and mount their best defense, and let justice be served.
Just basic rule of law folks, it’s not rocket science.
The fact of the matter is that we are still treating them in accordance with the Geneva Conventions for the treatment of POW’s. If not, then please quote the chapter and verse which we are not following and bring it before the World Court in The Hague, The Netherlands. After all, it is into THEIR jurisdiction this subject falls, not with the US Supreme Court.
John Walker Lindh surrendered his citizenship when he took up arms against the United States. That, sir, is also law. Just as the Amercans who returned to Germany and Italy to fight in World War Two did. (Surprisingly enough, not many people returned to Japan.)
Jose Padilla…. Oh… You mean Abdullah al-Muhajir. If memory serves, he was tried by a jury of peers in CIVILIAN courts, found guilty on ALL counts and currently serves his sentence near Miami FL (not Guantanamo Bay). Well, he is a civilian. He was tried by civilians. So much for denying rights to civilians…
I think that I’ll stop coming to the Pundit Kitchen. Most of these comments are funny parodies of leaders and our political process. But pictures like this one, which is neither funny nor informed, leave me too furious for my preference.
I have an ex-wife to visit if I want to get pissed off like this.
Good day, Ladies and Gentlemen.
I think the idea is that each country’s judicial system should do its best to ensure that its practices comply with the Geneva Convention, and matters are referred to the World Court when they are believed *not* to have complied.
GCiii, article 3: “describes minimal protections which must be adhered to by all individuals within a signatory’s territory during an armed conflict not of an international character (regardless of citizenship or lack thereof): Noncombatants, combatants who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, including prohibition of outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment. The passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. Article 3′s protections exist even if one is not classified as a prisoner of war.”
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention
Thanks again for knowing more than the typical ignorant American public who are
victims of the media
Better yet, if you are so against their treatment, even though they recognize it as the best living conditions they have ever had, perhaps you could give them your address and let these murderers move into your neighborhood. It is obvious who on this board doesn’t serve their country and doesn’t trust the members who do choose to serve. We are not torturers and we are not baby killers. But you choose to see us as losers. That is OK also, we see you as helpless sheep.
MAJ Gross, who said any of that?
If you are my shepherd, then please stop treating me with contempt.
With respect, MAJ Gross, this forum isn’t a geographically local resource.
The supreme court ruling allows these people to challenge their status. It does not say we cannot imprison them, it says that we need to determine if they are actually guilty before we lock them up forever. They are not automatically terrorist because President Bush said so.
Hear, hear.
that was brilliant, brilliant word play!
Justice for the victims of terrorism dumb asses. Have any of you even been there? I rest my case
This isn’t the same as the American court system. Some of you either need to learn facts or just shut the hell up
Justice for the victims of terrorism. How many of you have even been there? I rest my case
Justice for victims of terrorism (idiots). How many of you have actually been there? I rest my case
there’s no justice there,
only fascist brutality.
the military are not my brothers and sisters, they are class traitors.
our human rights are for sale to the highest bidder.
you can’t torture a human being and call it justice no matter what.
i don’t care what idiotic justification they bring for this shit.
you can’t lock people up like that with no evidence and then call it justice.
it’s “just us,” and that’s all.
It’s only irony because true justice would be leaving terrorists dead on the battlefield in the Middle East instead of taking them to the paradise that is Guantanamo Bay. They get better treatment there than prisoners do in jails in the USA, so all you crybabies who live in a fantasy world where these peoples’ civil rights are being violated and sold to the highest bidder, blah blah blah…move out of your mom’s house, go get a job and learn how the real world operates. The rest will fall into place little by little.
Right. That’s it.
1.) All men (and women, that is) are created EQUAL. Therefore, they have equal rights and such.
2.) Justice is: Being just all the time. Meaning: Never surrendering your fair principals. Justice is not: Surrendering your principals for revenge. Revenge may seem just, but if someone is unjust to you, is it just to be unjust back? No, because you’re being unjust. Simple as that.
“What cracks me up is that anyone would believe we should afford the liberties and freedoms belonging to American citizens to someone who would just as soon kill us as look at us.”
Bloomin’ heck, who do you think you are? Being American means being American, not some superhuman being that has rights that others don’t have. Just because your country guarantees you these rights does not mean that you can revoke them to all non-Americans.
Even *if* they want to kill you: Prove they’re guilty of a crime and punish them. That’s fair. You’re being fair, you’re proving your sophistication, nobody can complain, and everybody is happy.
If you can read this, thank a soldier.
I guess we could take the a page from the terrorist and just behead all captives on national TV. Maybe hang some bodies from bridges. Oh wait they have to sit in a cell, eat planned meals that are designed for there religion. Thats much worse
I feel so bad for the terrorists! I hear they only have one Starbucks! And they are forced to stand for a whole hour! Anyway it says Camp Justice not Camp Freedom. If someone has to stand for an hour or go without sleep to save the lives of US Soldiers fine by me.
camp INjustice is more like it.