actual representation of u.s. economy
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Painfully reminiscent of the UK at the moment as well:D
“HAHAHA Burn!” -Kelso
“Good Times, Bad Times
You know I’ve had my share”
- Led Zeppelin, from their first album (that featured a lovely photo of the Hindenburg).
WIN!
(But we’re not in a recession.)
We’re not!
Two negative growth quarters are required before a ‘recession’ is the correct term. We’ve had four subsequent quarters of higher-than-expectations growth, due to, amongst other things, fewer imports than previous years, partly due to the weakened dollar, amongst other factors.
Simply, we are not in a recession. It might hurt, but it’s not a _recession_ hurt. I’m sure that would be MUCH more painful.
There are disagreements over what should be defined as a recession. Even if technically real GDP hasn’t dropped into negative territory, the collapse of the housing market, credit crunch and bear market have combined to reduce buying power and net worth to the point where it feels like a recession. I think there are real distribution of wealth issues that make it feel like there’s a recession when the numbers say everything is okay. Also, I think the feeling is regional… MI and DE are in fact in recessions, while things are overall pretty good in WA and TX.
$4.00 a gallon milk hasn’t helped either.
No kidding. Thank the ether I’m lactose intolerant.
Depends on where you’re at in Washington. If you live in a county with 15% unemployment, things aren’t so good.
TRY CORRECTING FOR INFLATION… You economist dont add 2 and 2 together.
If the supposed yearly growth was 6 percent last year, but inflation was 10 percent, THEN WE HAVE been in a reccession.
The US has ruined the world’s economy. Thanks, America.
Well, if the rest of you knuckleheads weren’t so entirely dependent on us, you wouldn’t have a problem, would you? Try standing on your own for once!
That was a joke, right? ‘Cause if it’s not, that’s a kind of scary sentiment. A little thoughtless even. Our economy has only been strong *because* the world hitched their collective wagon to our system. Once they lose faith in our economy, WE ARE SUNK!
That’s right, the US invented free market capitalism and we’ve been the only ones ever who have pursued it. Jees I hope those other countries don’t lose faith in this crazy system. Maybe they’ll go back to those socialist practices that worked so well before they “hitched their collective wagon to our system.”
If there’s anything to be learned from the 20th Century, surely it’s that the interplay *between* capitalism, socialism, nationalism, religion and other cultural drives is always more fruitful than the attempt to pursue any one to the exclusion of the rest.
Capitalism cannot thrive as a world body, if Socialism exists to any extent. The markets simply aren’t compatible – Socialism weakens capitalist ideals, and it’s difficult to compete when such systems are in practice.
Cobblers’. Utter.
More specifically: that’s the mirror of the _reductio_ad_Stalinum_ argument that ‘communism doesn’t work’, and a self-fulfilling prophecy to boot. The fact the communism / socialism doesn’t work when implemented as totalitarian policy doesn’t imply that it can’t work in a democratic, open market system; similarly, capitalism *needn’t* be weakened by socialism, and does itself no favours in presenting itself as an exclusive solution.
BTW sorry, TheLarrikin, for the curtness of my previous, from-the-hip reply, made in haste as I was dragged away from the keyboard.
No problem, fjaradvax. Won’t hold it against you.
Holy crap, you don’t know the first thing about capitalism, socialism, OR economics, do you? You realize that the US is highly socialist, right? But only socialism for the rich, and for businesses.
–
What is socialism? Is the army socialist, or is it free market capitalism? What about the police and fire departments? Why aren’t there a number of
police and fire departments we can choose from in a market? Why are roads and sewers and electric companies socialized?
–
Did you know that Adam Smith himself said that markets require regulation in order to remain free, right? Yeah, I thought not. Educate yourself before you post things that make you look like even more of an idiot.
“Police and fire departments” aren’t related to economics in any way other than that they are paid money to do what they do.
Regulated capitalism isn’t socialism.
And I’m the idiot.
I think you’ll find that people were willing to invest in the US before you become oil-hungry war mongers.
capitalism is not an american invention..
I think the truth’s somewhere between these extremes: blaming America is easy but a gross over-simplification. The global economy is, by definition, non-local and thus unlikely to respond well to attempts to localize it, either by building ‘Trade Centers’ or by blowing them up.
Woah! Yes America has had quite an effect on the world economy, but do you really want to sit here and say that we were hoping for bad times? Sure the shit hit the fan over here, but no one forces you in your tiny slavic country to do business with the US. You’ve chosen to roll your dice in the ol import export game, and if it hurts, change policy of who you deal with, and if you can’t change policy, change your policy makers. If all else fails, become an American. We have welfare
Read yesterday’s (Sept. 4) Wal Street Journal. You’ll find an article containing the analysis of The world’s top economic bureaus stating that currently, the US economy is one of the fastest growing, best economies in the world. Regardless of individuals being in the midst of unfortunately hard times, the economy as a whole is doing fine.
True. The Uber-Wealthy just keep on getting richer here. If you are one of the other 96% though, better count your pennies!
I’m in the middle class, and I’ve the reserves to last me for a year with NO INCOME. You know why? Because I was smart about it.
If you’re counting pennies, learn to be more smart about it! You don’t have to live in the biggest dwelling your paycheck will allow – live smaller and reserve the extra. You don’t have to buy a new car or furniture when you get a raise – reserve the extra. You don’t have to spend every cent you make every paycheck, because there’s always something you can do to cut out expenses.
People need financial education – then they wouldn’t _have_ to count their pennies.
Is that what you tell the people whose homes are sitting unoccupied, on the market and have been for a year, all the while paying that mortgage and utilities and not able to purchase homeowners’ insurance because it’s an unoccupied dwelling AND pay current rent and utilities and living expenses on two middle-class incomes? We count our pennies, all right. We count them right to the bottom of our pockets and hope there are enough to buy dinner tonight.
Screw you, buddy.
Wait a second, those people who have lost their homes made the decision based on erroneous information or lack of reading the ‘fine print’. Sure, I feel sorry for them, but the fact remains you can’t go into home ownership trusting the word of the person selling you the home! So realistically, it’s everyone’s fault for their ignorance? I agree with TheLarkin totally. You can have a comfortable lifestyle if you DON’T buy into the hype that you have to have a new car every two years, you don’t have to go to Disneyland every year, and you don’t have to live in the nicest up-scale neighborhood. In over half a century I have never purchased a brand new car. I have had newer cars, but never one with close to zeo miles. So the bottom line is, if someone is financially insolvent, it’s THEIR fault and not mine.
Sorry, I’m pre-dating myself. I meant to say in almost half a century.
But what of the people that -aren’t- buying a new car every two years, that -aren’t- trying to buy a 72″ plasma screen, to those that are strapped trying to pay a mortgage with increasing interest rates,while not having enough money to fill their gas tank to drive to work and still afford groceries, where the only insurance they have is praying to god they don’t get sick? What of them?
This would be me. We purchased our home for $163,000. We didn’t buy a house out of our league. Both our cars are 10 years old and paid for. Eddie, it might behoove you to get all facts before you generally lambast the way Larrikin did.
Ok, you’re right, my scope was too general and I apologize for that. But, let me ask you this, when did you buy your house? Did you get in a fixed or arm mortgage? And you didn’t say if you were strapped for cash to meet your minimum needs. From what I have read, alot of these people got into adjustable rate mortgages that there wasn’t anyway they were going to be able to maintain the payments. But you have to admit, a lot of people want to have the luxury items and don’t consider whether they really need them or not.
Our mortgage is a 30-year conventional we purchased in 2002. Yes, we are strapped for cash to make our minimum needs. We do it, but there is never anything left over. I have a flex plan at work so when we visit the dentist and I submit the receipt, I am reimbursed a percentage of the bill. I bought my husband shoes with some of what was reimbursed. My television was a wedding gift from my parents in 2001 and is turning green and red on the sides. I’m not crying pity party, here, I just want all of you people who are so quick to say we’re digging our own graves to know that’s not always the case. It’s really frustrating to read that someone who doesn’t know me or others like me can make a judgment call about what I can and cannot afford. I appreciate the apology. You are a gentleman and I apologize for going off on you.
It’s ok, I try not to take things personally when I know that it was probably my fault in the first place.
Me too. We rent the least expensive place we could find that was minimally large enough (one bedroom for a family of three, which costs us about $450/month), we have never bought a car that was new, always paid cash up front, and never paid more than $2000, and of our two TVs, one was a gift and my husband found the other at Goodwill for $20. Our last vacation was our honeymoon, which my mom paid for as a wedding gift. I think there are maybe two or three pieces of furniture we bought new; the rest are either hand-me-downs from relatives, gifts, or things we picked up from the side of the road. Even our computer is a Frankenstein’s monster of one my husband built from new parts about 7 years ago, and miscellaneous parts from newer computers other people were getting rid of. My big splurge is books, and since I can get most of them for free through book trading programs, I only spend maybe $40 a year on them. I rarely even buy new clothes (I recently got a big bonus at work, and my big treat was a $16 pair of shoes, which are my first new shoes in about 6 months). WE AREN’T BIG SPENDERS. We do regularly run out of money before payday arrives, though. Between gas for my husbands 50 mile-per-day commute, which is a big expense even with a car that gets 35 MPG, and groceries which keep getting more expensive, and prescriptions/medical bill, and bills for rent, natural gas, electricity, etc., etc. there generally isn’t enough to save any back. This isn’t meant to ba a “woe is me” sort of comment, but I don’t appreciate people saying we must be splurging if we don’t have money saved back, because it ain’t true.
And as far as Noone’s comment below goes, no, we don’t think we’re hard up just because we can’t afford a big screen TV. We think we’re hard up because we sometimes have to decide between diapers and milk. And we aren’t on any sort of welfare or food stamps.
I didn’t lose my home–I just can’t sell it. The house next door to us brought in over $200,000. The house is not in an upscale neighborhood. We can’t afford to upgrade our house so we are asking $163,000, which is what our mortgage is–and it still sits on the market. Both cars are 10 years old and paid for. In the ten years my husband and I have been together, our lavish vacation–yes, ONE vacation–we drove to Canada to go camping for a week. We are not ignorant people. For you to blindly jump on Eddie’s bandwagon with no information other than what you suppose my situation is–well, you got me. I have no words for it. Next time you want to call someone ignorant, you might want to revisit this thread and look inward.
You know, for every story like your’s there’s probably 10 about people that just don’t have a clue about their finances. I wasn’t saying YOU’RE ignorant, I was saying that people that blindly buy a house without considering everything are ignorant. And as such, no, I don’t know what your situation is. I only know of those I know personally or have read about. That is who my comments were directed at, not you personally.
Thank you. So many people have no idea how to control their finances. And for the ones who do, there should be a way to help them. But some people are kinda like government and education – they figure, if it doesn’t work, throw more money at it, and it’ll work itself out. That’s not how to reach a solution – that money will be wasted as the money available prior to that was wasted as well.
I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone here, but it’s simply that I’m completely fed up with people who should know better, or who ignore common sense, going out and overspending, and then acting like it’s the government’s fault that they’re in a bad position.
Have you thought about renting, ReTARDIS? Even in an unstable housing market, you’ll have people looking to rent (and usually even more because of the instability). If you can get at least enough to cover monthly mortgage and taxes (pretty much bring it to zero balance), you can live elsewhere and not really have to worry so much about how you’re going to pay for two houses, etc., AND you’ll be able to sell it when the market’s better. Just a thought – I don’t know how doable this is in your situation, but I’ll do all I can to help people who are trying to be fiscally responsible. And I apologise personally, as it seems you’ve taken it that way. I’ve tried to explain my position, so hopefully forgiveness will be justified.
I wanted to add, there was a time in the early 90′s when I had home in California. The State was in a major recession and the house that we owned ended up being worth half of what I owed on it. I kept the house and rented it out at a loss to me, but in the end, I was able to finally sell it for three times what I paid for it. So I would say this, as long as you have a home and you can make the payments, at some point in time it will probably pay off for you.
Oh, there’s no doubt in my mind that will be the case. HOWEVER, we moved out-of-state for my husband’s new job and had to leave our house empty. So what is breaking us right now is having not just the mortgage payment, but rent on the house in the new state, utilities for both and then the daily unavoidable crap. Since last November, we’ve “wasted” $17,000 on an empty house in mortgage payments and utility bills, taxes, etc. We had a renter–for a month. He realized he couldn’t afford the rent and bailed after a month without even telling us. All I can do is laugh about the whole situation because I’m maxed out on my Lithium dosage.
Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt too. I was lucky though, at least I was able to keep my house rented. Oh hell, now you’re going to start thinking I’m not heartless at all! There goes my Republican Persona again.. sheesh!
I replied to a prior post by eddiepscetti, and am hoping that perhaps it could help your situation. There are people available that will manage your rental properties (of course, for a fee) if you’re out of state. Maybe they could be of some help, with the suggestion I posted earlier? If I’m totally off base here, I apologise.
I was going to say that. It’s very true- they assume since they are having a hard time buying that new 72 inch plasma TV that they are experiencing rough times, and they protest and complain. Oh well, the people run the country and if we all decide we are poor and decide we can take from people who were smarter than us and have money now, then that is what will happen
Oh, the Humanity!
I remember the encyclopedia that came with our old Packard Bell had this as one of the very few videos it included… haha glad I get to enjoy that quote.
That’s right, blame America, blame Bush, blame global warming. Never mind those morons that got home loans for houses they could not afford. No way, could never expect those poor pitiful unsuspecting people to accept responsibility for making a piss poor choice financially. I know! Let’s bail them all out! Ya, I wanna pay for their screw up…that will fix everything!
I have to say that it’s not just people making poor decisions financially. There are a number of mortgage companies that are under investigation, or were recently under investigation for fraudulent practices (Countrywide being one of the biggest). In the state I live in, one of our larger companies was recently issued a cease and desist order for unfair and deceptive business practices, including forging signatures and falsifying adjustable rate mortgages as 30-year fixed mortgages. So before you place ALL the blame on people being unable to make proper financial choices perhaps you should get the whole story….
Rubbish! It’s the people who bought the home who signed their names on the dotted line. I seriously doubt anyone had a gun to their head. Without a doubt the mortgage companies are complicit in the way they put the people in houses they couldn’t afford. But if they didn’t investigate their purchase well enough, it’s on their back.
So I can change the terms of your mortgage after you’ve signed it, and if things go sour, it’s your fault? Sweet! I know what industry to go into now!
But you can’t change the terms of the mortgage unless you agree to it, or it’s a part of the original contract. If the mortgage company puts a clause in there stating that the terms can be changed at anytime and you signed it, well I guess it’s tough luck.
There were several cases were the lending companies -didn’t- seek agreement before changing terms; what they did was illegal, but as there is little to oversight these days…
The other tactic I lurved was changing the lendee’s income so that they could qualify for a larger loan with shady interest. The guy signing the forms doesn’t know this because he’s in the dark.
“This economy isn’t sinking like the Titanic, it’s soaring like the HIndenberg!”
I lol’d
Actually, the entire picture really isn’t that bad. But grats on being so desperate to be part of something important that you blow things out of proportion.
No, no, everything’s fine! Highest jobless rate in five years? Well, you know, the pendalum swings up towards the richest 5% of people in the country, and then it swings back towards the people like me, who make less than a living wage and yet still don’t qualify for food stamps. And then it gets stuck up at the rich people end, and people in financial newspapers start saying things like, “Well besides the cost of fuel and groceries, the economy is doing fine!” Oh, thanks. I can barely afford to drive to work or eat, but if I really need a $300 silk scarf America has the best prices worldwide! SCORE!
Yup… just moved to a new place. It’s a fun game to play “Which do I buy this week? Lentils or curtains?”
I feel for you. I just went off on some holier-than-thou douchebag a couple posts up.
I can’t believe some of the idiotic, unfeeling comments. You don’t just tell someone “You’re not doing enough” when you HAVE to choose the lentils or you will die of starvation. My husband drives to work every day on BALD tires. And I mean bald tires. Literally. No tread. None. We can’t afford to buy him new tires.
For some reason I assumed you were a guy. Odd that.
My wife and I were almost destroyed by an unseemly hospital bill after our daughter died. My Blue Cross/Blue Shield refused any part of the bill because half the bills were in my wife’s name and the other half were in my daughter’s (who wasn’t on my plan at the time, as she was just born, and couldn’t be added, as she’d have been considered to have a ‘pre-existing condition.)
The only reason we stayed afloat is because her HR rep was a slimy weasel, but he was -her- slimy weasel; what balance their insurance program didn’t pay, he created a minor slush fund to pay off 78% of the remainder.
Ah, but we’re just poor consumers living in a nation of whiners.
I’m sorry about your daughter. My sincerest condolences. I have a rather miniscule idea what you went through with the bills. I was in the ER for 6 hours and we got a $5000 bill a week later. It’s really quite sad when you have to have “slimy weasels” in your corner so that you don’t live in abject poverty the rest of your natural life.
Many thanks for the condolences. I’m sure you can understand now why I struggle to ensure that others in our situation (a child predisposed to die) at least have the option of early termination, to perhaps lessen the pain.
I think the full bill (the birthing hospital, the ambulance, and the NICU) came to the ballpark of $70,000. We were nothing short of lucky to have only had to pay to pay off about $4,000. (There was no burial; the NICU gifts the cost of cremation and a little resin-cast statue to contain the ashes; and the priest did the funeral service pro bono.)
Comparing that to the little one I’m finally getting to sleep right now, whose prenatal care, homebirth, and 6 mos. of post natal checkups with a registered midwife only cost us $3,000…
Highest jobless rates in 5 years translates to still being lower than almost all other countries and even during the previous president’s term. I hope the “rich people” keep doing well because they are the ones that hire people! Kudos to them for being successful. By the way, if someone’s makes less than a living wage for more than a year and doesn’t have some sort of disability, they need to learn some marketable skills.
Where and when are they going to learn these marketable skills? Lots of people work 2 or 3 jobs, 7 days a week and can’t take a day off –whether for illness or car breakdown or anything–because they won’t have enough money to cover rent or the grocery bill.
What the hell kind of jobs are you talking about? Sweatshop jobs? Fifty cents an hour? Whatever! If you know someone like this just tell them to quit the jobs and get on welfare. I will help pay for heir needs. Not happily because i don’t like awarding mediocrity. Point is, there are options out there for everyone. They just have to look for them. Instead of crying whoa-is-me.
First of all, its Woe, not Whoa. Second, you make it sound like you can just take a few days off work, and go to the nearest “Marketable skills school” walk in the front door, and walk out in a week with a wealth of knowledge in your chosen field. It’s not that simple. First you have to pick your field, then you have to find a school that teaches it. Is there one nearby? Lucky you. Oh, you have to drive halfway across the country, completely uprooting your life to attend this school? Well suck it up. Then you have to figure out how to pay for said school. You can’t keep your multiple jobs, because you need time off to attend classes, but if you quit one of your jobs, you won’t be able to make rent/car payment/buy food for your children etc. Yeah, real simple and nobody’s fault but the poor.
I’m not sure about where you live, but two of my sons attend college on grants. They have both completed their first two years while working full time jobs AND supporting themselves (i.e. they don’t live at home.) Sure, they go without some of the luxuries, but they are by no means going without. And I should add, this all without the aid of dad and mom. I’ve offered but have been turned down. They tell me they will either succeed or fail on their own.
Well, if you insist on helping SOMEONE go to school, I plan on starting back either this fall or next spring
Sorry Kurt, that train came and went.. now the money is all mine till I kick off..
My Wife & I were making less than 20k/year with a kid to support. We both worked day jobs plus any gig we could get. I think back with fondness to the summer of ’92 when I had a side job every weekend of that year. We were renting in the inner city. One day we decided that this wasn’t going to work out for the future of our kid. So my Wife & kid moved back into OUR parents homes (6 months at one then move to the other to keep it fair). I registered at a trade school 4 hours away and moved there as a student. For 10 bucks I could get a ride back home to see them, and I got to do that about once a month. My Wife worked three jobs and still did side work. I worked as a janitor at the school while taking classes. We lived like this for the 2 years it took me to graduate. I landed a job before graduation and am still at it. Now I go to work each day while my bride stays home as does whatever she wants. Which is still more than what I do.
My point is that there is no good or easy way to get useful job skills. But I think you still need to do it anyway. Life is never easy & government only makes it worse. That’s why you got to depend on yourself. Like it or not it’s a competitive world where everyone wants to beat you. So you’re the only person you got. I speak in the singular because The Wife & I are a team. We regularly say to each other, “It’s you & me against the world”.
Oh and I wanted to mention that This job of mine has asked me to relocate 4 times now. Which we have done. I say this because I know people who refuse to move away from home. In depressed areas I think you need to just get out. Don’t ask me how. I’m not you. Ask yourself how.
Again, yeah, yeah, it’s all the individual’s fault… Riiight. It has nothing to do with inflation, or gas prices, or wages not rising with cost of living. The last raise I received didn’t even cover the raise in my health insurance premiums. I work two jobs and 60+ hours a week with a college degree under my belt to support ONLY myself. I live within my means, but still feel the pinch, and make many of the same decisions that dude remarked upon, “Lentils or curtains?” Both of my jobs – one in the real estate industry, and one in the Financial services industry, show that all is “not fine” with the economy, and that even those with many marketable skills can end up on their ass at one point or another. Don’t knock someone for making less than a living wage if you don’t know why they have to work that job. Also, pick up this book: Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich and tell me how you would feel working in one of those jobs, and how some places *cough*wal-mart*cough* only perpetuate the cycle of poverty.
The jobs need to be HERE in the first place. Rich people may hire people, but that doesn’t mean they hire American people — can you say “OUTSOURCING?” Most of the rich people in this country are still looking out for number 1, but when the poor underpaid American schmoe (although they are working full time) tries to look out for number 1, they get criticized for being unskilled. Obviously they have “marketable skills” if they are working at all. Sheesh!
Outsourcing is mainly caused by high corporate taxes and crazy labor unions. Both of which the Dems support the hell out of. Ironic considering your rhetoric.
Wow. I was going to explain how many ways that statement is wrong and utter fail, but I didn’t really feel like teaching you the entire subject of global economics.
Don’t bother. He wouldn’t listen.
Skills: community college night classes. Grants are a wonderful thing.
Curtains: luxury
Working 60+ hours with a degree and still pinched? Find a new job worth your skills, or maybe one that doesn’t rely on commission.
Again the fact is if you are not able to increase your wage to a livable level after a years employment, then you do not posses the skills worth a higher wage. The vast majority (I can’t locate the percentage just now) of people hired for minimum wage (for example) are working for twice that amount within 12 months.
The kids at the Christian school across from me are going to get an eyeful, then. I’m not talking $60 panels, I’m talking about pieces of fabric for privacy.
I bet the nuns would appreciate it more -_^
^ Win!
Consider it a comprehensive sex education program they’re not getting and you’ll be doing community service AND eating.
uhm, you say that without having the benefit of seeing who will be providing said service to the community? For shame, Jane, for shame.. (sorry dude, couldn’t resist..
)
Hmm… I don’t possess the skills worth a higher wage? Except that I also tutor adults twice my age to increase THEIR “marketable skills,” and also work a very small design business in addition to the two other jobs I work. Both jobs that I am currently in are hourly wages (not commission) that pay much more than minimum wage.
Don’t rely on statistics to support your bile. Statistics lie, especially when it comes to wages. How old are the people you are referencing that work for “twice” minimum wage within 12 months? What is their previous education compared to their current level of education? This information does make a difference… The statistics that you are stating do not show the whole story, I would bet the “vast majority” that support your statistics are more likely high school or college kids that are entering the work force for the first time rather than later-20 and 30-somethings, middle-aged and retirement-aged members of the work force.
When once I was paying 60 every two weeks for the same groceries I buy week in and week out, I now pay closer to $100. When it once cost me $20/wk to fill my gas tank it now costs me $40/wk. I switched to generic brand groceries when I saw prices rising. I changed the type of air filter in my car, drive closer to the speed limit than before, and keep my car better maintained than ever in order to increase my mpg. I drive a little 4-banger back and forth with a roundtrip commute of 50 miles each day, which is nothing compared to the commute that other people drive.
For the most part I am not complaining, I live by myself when just 2 months ago I shared an apartment with a married couple that needed my income to afford the 2BR apartment that the 3 of us shared. I can afford many amenities but the fact of the matter is that my story is not typical. My co-workers in one of my positions are mostly stay-at-home moms that had to return to the work force to help support their families. I say you are blind if don’t see that people need to work harder and make changes just continue the same lifestyle that they had 2 to 3 years ago.
Despite the progress in my personal life (that I’ve now just aired for the entire web to see), I still make constant decisions regarding small sacrifices that 2 years ago I wouldn’t have even thought about.
It must be nice to live in a glass house… I hope that you don’t become one of the many clients I deal with each night that needs a hardship withdrawal or loan on their 401k because their kid needs to go to college, or they were recently diagnosed with cancer and their insurance doesn’t cover a procedure, or they are going to be evicted because they lost the job they held for 20+ years 6 months ago and have been unable to find a replacement position.
Yep. Everything is right in the world. The economy is just fine.
Go join the Peace Corps for a year and see how most of the world really lives- then come back and realize how incredibly well off we really are and how whiney and demanding Americans really are.
Our “Poor” live far better than most of the planet….
No doubt. I don’t deny that, but we’re not speaking about the rest of the planet or global policies/issues.
So vote for Obama, he will magically fix all those problems for you with his sparkly magic economy dust.
I haven’t even mentioned voting for Obama, or inferred that he could be the person to fix any of our problems. You’ve purchased your “Jump to Conclusions” mat haven’t you?
http://www.thinkgeek.com/books/humor/8e6c/images/2070/
LOL! WIN !
Even the poorest of the poor in this country have it better than most of the rest of the world.
_”I don’t possess the skills worth a higher wage? Except that I also tutor adults twice my age to increase THEIR “marketable skills,” “_
I never meant to refer to you specifically, just to people in general. But I’d be wary receiving tutoring from someone who says they are not able to procure an appropriate wage for their skills. You learn from who you want to become, I say.
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_”How old are the people you are referencing that work for “twice” minimum wage within 12 months? “_
ALL persons working for minimum wage, not some small slice of a demographic.
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_”I say you are blind if you don’t see that people need to work harder and make changes just continue the same lifestyle that they had 2 to 3 years ago.”_
Yeah. Hey welcome to the point. That people can and are working harder to maintain their lifestyle is exactly what I thought I was saying. My point was never that things aren’t tough for many people right now, just that the economy which is on a NATIONAL level is doing fine despite hardship on the INDIVIDUAL level.
Money is _always_ being given to someone else for goods and services. the “rich” provide more goods and services than others. The hope is to be successful in life and be able to leave something to your future generations so why don’t we all stop with the whole wealth envy bullcrap. You’re more than just a victim.
re what you said on statistics: Mark Twain once said (bless him) there are 3 kinds of lies:
Lies
Damned lies
and statistics
To those who rely on statistics:
You can make a statistics say whatever you want, by manipulating your sample group (how “4 out of 5 dentists” prefer five different brands of toothpaste), phrasing your questions in a biased manner (the NRA is notable for this–I’ve received their surveys), and many other methods.
I have a bachelors degree and more than 10 years work experience, but I can’t find a good job. I suffer working in retail and struggle to figure out which bill I can pay this month and still eat. My financial skills are fine. I don’t spend frivolously. I have marketable skills and an education, so why am I having problems finding a job and paying the bills if the economy in my area is so great? People who have never faced hardship won’t ever get it.
Have you ever thought of moving some place where your skills are in demand? Is it a requirement that you live where you do? I have taken jobs half way around the world because 1) it was a damn good job, and 2) there was a huge financial gain for me. I have lived through a recession, and while things sound bad, this ain’t it. I have been through a time when I had to line up for hours just to buy gas, hoping that the station wouldn’t run out before I got to the pump. So while I’m sure things are difficult for you, look at it this way, it builds character and will make you appreciate what you have later on in life.
If you had everything handed to you, would you be happier? Would you like government to take care of all your needs? Would you like the government to take all the wealth away from the rich people? And spread it to the rest of us? Of course you do. Socialism makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, doesn’t it? Good for you! Now go move to a socialist country. Because socialism will not and cannot work in the USA. If tried it will f@#k us up more than the current system.
Socialism is working right now in the US. Blinders ftw!
NO, not socialism. Just opportunities to make use of my college education. I am not even looking for public assistance. I was raised to work for a living. I just want enough opportunities to try to make my own American Dream. That can’t happen in the current economy. I work hard but see no fruit for my labor. Trickle-down economics has never worked. America has always prospered the most when it’s middle class is strong.
I have a friend from high school who didn’t get a college education, and his son didn’t get a college education, and they were overall not so well-off, but his son now owns a very successful business, because he was willing to take the risk. Don’t tell me the American Dream cannot happen in the current economy.
You have to have money to invest before you can start a business. I am frequently down to my last $10 before I’ve even bought groceries. Give me an economic pla to start a buisiness on that.
No you don’t. You have to have an Idea. It’s idiotic to start a business with your own money – sell your idea to someone else, and they’ll provide the money. That’s how it’s done.
Except in America, you’re supposed to be able to reap the full benefits of a good idea and build something with it. Take a cash settlement while someone else cashes in is the way it works now, much to America’s detriment. This still keeps the money in the hands of a few, and the little guy with the big idea still only gets minimal rewards for it.
You don’t sell your idea physically – you sell it to _investors_. They invest in you, in your idea, and you set up a company and run with it. That’s what I meant. I know a number of people (myself included) who have started up this way, and are now self-reliant or better.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Minerva just isn’t getting it. I have to wonder what the degree is in. Everything you say is absolutely correct. You never use your own money to start a business. And if you have a solid business plan, the banks will jump through hoops to help you. But you have to have a plan first! If someone has a vialable plan and can’t get backing, they aren’t trying hard enough. Imagine if someone like Bill Gates gave up the first time he was told no?
It’s good to hear a corroborating, knowledgeable opinion. Thank you.
You should consider yourself lucky then, since, in our current system, starting a new business is almost guaranteed to fail. Statistically speaking.
No where did I say that every business that get’s started was going to be a rousing success? You obviously missed my point, I was trying to say that if you have a solid business plan, there are ways to start a business without using your own funds. Beyond that, whether your business succeeds or fails is determined by other factors.
Most failed businesses fail within the first five years of existance. It’s usually because the first five years are so rough, that many people just drop out. I almost did. We’re on year eight here, and the load is so much lighter – I’m actually slightly sane, now.
You just have to have a solid Idea, a good plan, and the ability to move your mind from a worker’s thought process into a work-owner’s thought process, which is a most difficult jump for a lot of people.
It doesn’t even have to be revolutionary – you can do something everyone else does, as long as you can put your name on it, and do it well.
There are still plenty of opportunities available. Sieze them.
Not only that, but you have to have the will to get “down and dirty” and do the the jobs that you would rather not do. But, at TheLarkin said, if you can get past the initial startup growing pains and can establish yourself in the community, your business can and should be a success.
You could make a killing selling Sarah Pallin dolls right now or something like that. The frames for her glasses are selling like crazy right now the phones are ringing off the hook for them according to Inside Edition.
No, it would never ever be enough, you have to learn to be happy with what you have and work with what you are given. They more that is handed to you the more you will believe you need more. If you earn what you have you will appreciate it so much more.
I have never wanted a handout. I only want a job that isn’t likely to be outsourced and that takes advantage of my skills and education. There are few such opportunities in an market flooded with others like me. Nost people would prefer the dignity of work. I have NEVER been on any sort of public assistance. I just want an economy with job growth, not shrink, and no outsourcing. Why is that so much to ask for??
Economies shrink and grow, it is a natural cycle, there will be jobs again I assure you. Things are going to get better, gas prices are starting to inch down.
I just paid $3.37/gallon for gas just now.
HA! I’m paying $1.55 a liter which equals $6.20 a gallon.
HA! I’m sure your city/country has some sort of usable public transit!
Doesn’t matter, does it? But to reply to your comment, not really.. at least not one that serves my needs. Happy?
Australia is not known for it’s excellent public transportation system… sorry.
*waiting for the obligatory – why don’t you ride your kangaroo to work – remark*
Just to wade in at a later date:
Over here [Britain] in our area, we’re paying about £1.15 for a litre of petrol.
That’s about $2.09 per litre, or almost $8 per gallon.
And that’s not the highest it’s been recently, it hit over £1.30 awhile back but dropped some since.
For diesel, it’s about £1.25/litre.
Uhhhh, the economy has been shrinking (generally) since Y2K.
It’s almost like leadership in this country WANTS to wreck the economy.
SO go to where the outsourced jobs are going! It sounds like you can’t see the forest for the trees..
Immigration law comprehension fail.
whatever.. didn’t know we had a global economist and immigration authority in our midst. I bow to your superiority.. /sarcasm/
Absolutely … I’m going to China !
My stepdad has been with the same construction company in the Sacramento Valley (one of, if not the largest in CA) for the last 15-20 years and is pretty much the least likely guy in the company to be laid off (in those 15-20 years he’s been one of the only guys who’s never been laid off). Two weeks ago, him and his entire crew were given 2 options: a) Drive 4+ hours each way to the nearest job site; or b) Get laid off.
Two things about this are frightening:
1) In his 15+ years he’s never HAD to drive more than an 2 hours for a job (he sometimes chose to if it was a prevailing wage job).
2) The summertime has always been his company’s bread-n-butter. Being laid off before November is unheard of. During the summertime there’s always been a job within an hour drive available and the majority of the time there’s been a prevailing wage job available within that range.
Capitalism: Oh the humanity!
Communism: Oh….. humanity…. whatever.
“actual representation”
…unlike all those imaginary representations.
The Hindenburg was a Zeppelin, not a blimp. Blimps have no frames.
Fugu is right. The term Blimp comes from the military classification for them of Balloon-Limp (i.e. no frame) which was abbreviated to B-Limp by servicemen.
Gotta love those GI’s, they have invented all sorts of great terms, like the whole nine yards, warm and fuzzy and many more.
The Hindenburg? Really…that seems rather extreme. Great timing for the photographer though.
I would say the economy corresponds to the picture that was taken about 15 seconds before this one. The flames aren’t nearly as bad, but are guaranteed to get much worse.
Oh, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mae are being bailed out ? The flames just got worse.
And? Do you even know what Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are? Here’s a clue:
Fannie Mae:
Fannie Mae has a federal charter and operates in America’s secondary mortgage market to ensure that mortgage bankers and other lenders have enough funds to lend to home buyers at low rates. Our job is to help those who house America.
Freddie Mac:
Freddie Mac is a stockholder – owned corporation chartered by Congress to increase the supply of funds that mortgage lenders, such as commercial banks, mortgage bankers, savings institutions and credit unions, can make available to homebuyers and multifamily investors. Since Freddie Mac was created in 1970, they have pursued the purpose the Congressional founders set out: to provide a continuous and low – cost source of credit to finance America’s housing.
I’m sort of at a loss as to why this is a problem for you.
USA’s economy is going down?
And here I was thinking that leeching other countries would be enough… but they alwalys want more, don’t they.
Socialism won’t work. You can’t multiply wealth by dividing it.
Anyone who’s been divorced knows that!