remember the good ol’ days when we believed in the constitution?
(George Washington)
picture: dunno source, via our lol builder. lol caption: chartreauxx
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“ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. ”
Ah…good old naive times…
… written and signed by slave-owning chauvinists. What, nostalgia is a force for Change now?
Good point.
Do we practise slavery now? How are things now? Pretty good compared to then aren’t they? Good thing we had the constitution to guide us as the country grew.
Hi Ema! It’s good to see you back.
I agree things have improved a great deal, and it’s good that we had a document like the Consitution to ensure that.
I just wish our current administration would pay more attention to it.
Hi bv!
Hey, E. I did welcome ya back a few LOL’s ago but it was buried in the debates.. so, good to see you again!!
Hi Eddie, I saw that, thanks!
……what about me?
Of course you too!
Please tell me, without referencing to Fox, NRO, or the WND, exactly what the administration is doing to disregard the US Constitution.
I would also say hi but seeing as I was the prime target for Bob and EP claiming I was your stalker I am not sure how the replies will go from here if I do …
I am glad to see you back Ema, despite it all I still say you are good people.
Hi jelly! You are too
I think we went over that before. No worries.
“How are things now? Pretty good compared to then aren’t they?”
Six of one, half dozen of the other, ema. I miss the days of being safe and secure in my person and house and papers, but then my daughter will be able to vote in 18 years. And (as I assume it was lost else-LOL):
Welcome back, your dreams were your ticket out.
Welcome back, to that same old place that you laughed about.
Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they’re turned around.
Who’d have thought they’d lead ya (Who’d have thought they’d lead ya)
Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease her a lot cause we’ve got her on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
ema Kotter?! I never knew. ;D
Ahhh, that’s cute Herb.
I think we have to give them credit for being ahead of their times, and progressing the cause of human dignity. Jefferson, for instance, was prevented from freeing his slaves by the laws of the times, unless he was willing to spend a bunch of money, but he still managed to free a few when he died.
I don’t think anyone is saying the founding fathers were perfect. They were certainly guilty of sexism and racism, BUT they left us with an incredrible document that’s allowed us to make huge changes and advances over the years.
I do often wonder what they’d think of so much that is going on here now. Doubt they’d be pleased to see the documents that define this country being abused in the ways they are now.
They would probably feel like they were watching their child being gang raped by idiots… Not a pretty image or feeling I imagine.
WTF?
I don’t have a high opinion of how things are being run currently.
Me neither, I know that I can get a bit obscure at times, but, to be honest my friend, I could not figure that one out.
Mmm, I’m sorry. Just imagined them being horrified and that was the most horrifying analogy I could conjure in the instant. :/
got it… do me a favor… feel free to send a WTF my way if I go out on the electronic limb.
If you ever stump me, I shall. I promise.
What can you expect but abuses when the American public disregards the Constitution’s principles and put the entire responsibility of a government split into three parts on a single of of those parts? Voters blame everything from health care to education and taxes on the President — entire campaigns are run on issues that, quite frankly, the President has no senior power over, according to that great document. Voters have been trying for about 100 years to turn American government into a constitutional monarchy — but, no surprise, we blame that on the government too.
Right, and it’s not like our executive branch hasn’t been trying to over step it’s bounds, saying it can wage war anywhere without reporting back to congress or getting congresssional approval. It’s not like other branches haven’t been dropping the ball, but the executeive branch has perpetrated some big abuses over the past 8 years.
It’s called the War Powers Act, look it up. The President can send troops anywhere he wants with authorization from Congress. You want to blame Bush – again – but you’re not going to hold Congress responsible?
There are a minority of Congressmen and Senators I wouldn’t want to smack upside the head.
-My- objections with the Executive Branch’s power grab are related to USPatriot I and II, as well as supplemental bovine excrement like the FISA bill and the Military Omissions Act– er, Military Commissions Act. These acts winnow away our civil liberties in exchange for some assumed security. I’m sure you know Ben Franklin’s summary of this.
Yes I do, and it was controlled by the same party that decimated the military, per artticle one of the Constitution, the GOP controlled Congress. Good to be fighting with you again, old buddy.
I know the war powers act, the point is right after september 11th, they pretty much gave Bush permission to wage war wherever he wanted without reporting to them, and by extention the people, which means yes, most of congress has a huge role of guilt in that, and in general being wussy and not standing up to the president. This was unconstitutional of them, I actually saw the only representative who cast a dissenting vote to that measure on the grounds that it was unconstitutional speak at my school not long after.
I’m just slightly more ticked at Bush’s corner, since that, the USA/Patriot Act, and talk of Constitutional ammendments to ban gay marriage (a political stunt) all originated in his corner.
In other circumstances, I’d say you have a point. But the system of checks and balances built into the constitution has been broken by the two-party system. Up until just over a year ago we had a congress that simply rubber-stamped anything the president sent their way. The completely neglected their responsibility to check excessive executive power.
“I don’t think anyone is saying the founding fathers were perfect.”
Nothing makes me LOL more than knowing Washington grew mary-jane and Jefferson was down with the swirl.
Jefferson held this truth to be self evident that all punani was created equal…
Jefferson wants his women like he wants his coffee. Hand picked from a field.
LMAO
Ah, the old rant, taken up by those who have no sense of history. It is very easy to sit here, in the 21st century and cheapshot the achievements of those back in the late 18th century. I could go into great detail and bore myself and all others, but, for a change, I will restrain myself. Suffice it to say, America’s founding fathers, at great personal risk, set into place the means for all Americans, and in fact, all modern democratic societies, to grow to the point in which all members of our given societies may attain and enjoy their natural rights.
Who wrote “Remember the good ol’ days?” There’s historical perspective, and there’s senseless, blind nostalgia.
On slavery you are totally right…
But i was talkin of the concept…at the pratice they…ehm…failed?
Still better than this timese where some nations creates false evidences as casus belli…at least be honest and say “WE WANT OIL! And we’ll raid you. Surrender and we will try to destroy your nation only at 80%” XD
Blix said two months before the war Iraq had over 1000 tonnes of listed, and unaccounted-for, chemical weapons. He got that from records seized from the Iraqi government during the pre-war inspections.
Even if there’d been no WMD question, Iraq never bothered to comply with over two-thirds of the 30+ cease-fire terms.
Break a cease-fire, and you’re subject to reinvasion. That’s why the No-Fly Zones were legal, it’s why Operation Desert Fox was legal, it’s why the 2003 invasion was legal. All the same war.
Bwhahahahaha!
Ehm, exerting oppressive power on a sovereign state for years is quite unjust…
Oh i forgot that americans calls it “embargo”…
If the war was waged for the overthrowing of a tyrant, why in the first gulf war the tanks reverted from baghdad even there was no one defending?
Oh yes…at the times they needed only quwaitian oil…smart move, undermining a power for the future while still making its resources unavailable for the adversaries.
And there was no chemical weapons more advanced than fosgene or mustard gases…leftovers of iran-iraq wars of ’80…
And USA knowed this for sure because they sold them to saddam
And u’re a dumbass so mesmerized from propaganda that when someone points the moon, the only thing you see is the finger…
Hypocrisy does not automatically equal wrong. The sentiment is still good.
Now, now, be fair. Slave-owning chauvanists they may have been, but they were progressive _for their time_. The US Constitution was – and, really, still is – a very enlightened document, especially considering when it was written, and considering what the average person must have been like at the time.
If time travel were possible, I sure as hell wouldn’t even want to go even 100 years into the past. I have difficulty enough relating to people in this day and age.
If you took a moment to look at your high school history, you’d know that the vast majority of the founders were NOT slave owners – and those that were ultimately freed them. Try to find a political movement – anywhere in the world, anytime in human history – that did so much to pursue liberty and human dignity. Yes slavery is evil, but that evil was ended, not immediately; neither did America come into being immediately…but it did happen.
1776 FTW!
That’s the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. Common Mistake.
Heh. You called his mistake “common”. I’d be insulted.
You just quoted the Declaration of Independence. Not the Constitution. Common mistake. There’s a difference between a statement of ideals and a secured set of actual rights.
Now, if you were contemplating armed revolution, perhaps the DoI would be the proper document to reference. -:)
Is there an echo in here?
Sadly, yes.
Constitution is for commie pinko liberals. Are ya, an Obama fan, or whut?
The constitution lied, people died.
Nice.
I don’t believe that you are really from Israel.
You have no Israel. Enjoy your yarmulke.
And I don’t believe you spent 30 years working for the defense industry. That make us even?
My constitution killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s car.
My Constitution killed fewer people than George Bush’s war.
Woahhh, Back the truck up! Sorry Joe, but I had to hijack your peice of the thread or I would have gotten lost in the weeds. You people have absolutly no IDEA what the Constitution is all about. If you did, you would never had made these statements. The COnstitution’s ONLY purpose is to limit the powers of the US national government to ensure the rights of the governed.
Thank you, CF. And even as a conservative libertarian, it’s clear that both parties gave up on limited govt a LONG time ago.
My Constitution was shredded by the Bush administration. So was yours.
Amen.
Gotta disagree with you there- the War on Drugs has been tearin’ out chunks left and right since 1971.
Bush Administration still did quite a number on what was left, though!
Join the Ron Paul Revolution! Bring back our Constitution!
Mine wasn’t!
My constitution has a -2 racial modifer that I have compensated for with a magic ring that also makes me immune to poison.
I think I love you in that platonic kind of way. Feel special starting… Now.
Ah wow…. can’t stop laughing at that one
wonderful!
Jesus saves! Everybody else takes 3d6 damage.
Oh, *now* I roll 18… ;P
I rolled 17 plus bonus of 8 so 25 and I have Evasion. Woot!!!
Perhaps useful for that pesky Russian poison? Do dey haz constitution dere?
In Soviet Russia, Constitution haz YOU.
well, not true.
Back when slavery wascommon practice… yup… good times.
It’s tragic that that is what you would focus on.
Funny you should bring up one of the best black sit-coms of the 70′s in relation with slavery. Dyno-mite!!
Should be titled. “All men created equal… Irony, I has it.”
I don’t care about all you haters… our constitution was the first that established a democracy (or republic, or representational republic, or whatever you want to call it), and all people living in democracies today owe a debt our founding fathers, warts and all.
To be sure, I’d like to borrow the parliamentarian system a lot of Europe uses today, but still, we did it first, and our ancestors deserve some credit for trying to improve human governance. Even if they didn’t get everything right on the first try!
I’m with you Mark! What they did was revolutionary for their time, and is revolutionary even now, it’s just that most people don’t really know their constitution (and hey, I include myself in that).
Have you read “The End of America: A Letter of Warning To a Young Patriot” by Naomi Wolf?
She pretty much says ‘y’all betta recognize!!’ how awesome the founding fathers were, and this is from one of the foremost feminist thinkers of our time, so it’s not as though she doesn’t know or strongly disaprove of women and African Americans being left out the first time around.
I’ll look it up, thanks!
Really? Ever hear of Athens? How about Gopala in Bengal? the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? The Magna Carta? The Corsican Republic (the first place with UNIVERSAL sufferage). Finland was the first European country to grant universal suffrage to its citizens in its 1906 elections, and the first country in the world to make every citizen eligible to run for parliament. You were by NO means the first nation. knowledge of world history….FAIL! you probably also think that WW2 started in 1942.
Ok, and we also borrowed heavily from the Iroquois Nation. The Magna Carta only applied to nobles. The Corsican Republic lasted 13 years. Finland was a racially homogeneous nation, therefor they didn’t have the racial problems our ancestors dealt with.
Face it, every modern democracy owes a debt to the USA. Our Nation was already 130 years old when Finland had their 1906 elections. If we hadn’t carried the torch of democracy for so long, the light of enlightenment would have been extinguished until someone 2500 years from now would be arguing “No way, the ancients in the United States of America tried it millenia ago!”
“Racial problems” come from people being asshats, not from a country being racially heterogenous.
No argument; but a racially heterogeneous population *automatically* avoids having any racial problems.
Psst… Democracies have been around for eons. The first documented case was Greece in 500 BC. Just wanted to point out that America didn’t invent the concept…. we just adopted it.
Ok but remember that on 100 athenienses only 1 was considered a citizen, others were free people, but with no political rapresentances, and slaves, with kinda little rights at all..
The federal Constitution only counted slaves as three-fifths of a person each for the purposes of Congressional representation. Women did not count at all.
We were the last to get the right to vote. We still don’t have an equal rights amendment and still have to have stupid debates over the necessity of same in the first place. Equitable treatment in the workplace is a privilege and not a right. We’re supposed to be mothers first and foremost but are economically punished for doing so. Rape might as well be legal. Objections to sexual harassment and the sex industry are met with obnoxious laughter, nasty jokes and a “get over it.” And when we objected to the treatment of the first viable female Presidential candidate in United States history during the Democratic primary season we were called racists.
Hello. Which group was one of the major movers and shakers in the abolitionist movement? The feminists. You’re welcome. But we’re last in line again. As usual.
Maybe one of these days we’ll wise up, all turn lesbian and all stop having kids. But now that gay men can adopt kidnapped brown babies from the Third World, I doubt anyone will notice.
I love my country, but the people in it really suck.
Yet another example of someone who shares some of my beliefs, but is too extreme for me to feel comfortable admitting we’re on the same side.
Man, I know what you’re talking about. Does the fact that I don’t want to become a lesbian mean that I can’t be a feminist anymore?
No but you have to sign a waiver stating that you won’t hit women for hitting on you. And there is a membership fee for not wanting women. I cheated on my forms and stated that I was a male lesbian. I won through confusion.
I Love Mankind, but I’hate the people…
I was not defending USA in the previous comment, just saying a historical fact…
The society in this days really deserves a new start.
But please do not talk about feminism…for god sake…it’s a bunch of shit.
Talk about EQUAL RIGHTS AND DUTIES, it’s better…
What about the Parliament of the United Kingdom established in 1707?
The United Kingdom had already elected 14 Prime Ministers before USA elected their first President.
Um History fail…. Rome was a republic before it was an Empire (roughly 500 BC until shortly after Julius Caesar’s murder in 44 BC.
It was governed by a Senate; Caesar was killed by two Seantors (et tu, Brute?) after being accused of wanting to become King. The republic was overthrown by a nephew of Caesar’s
That was well before the Americas were established.
WE owe a debt to them I daresay.
Still an oligarchy of rich man with wagons of sestertii…
Not a democracy at all…at best a populism…
USA still sucks, as the 100% of democracies today.
OMG ROTFLMAO!!!!!!1111 one
Yes the good ol’ days. When slavery ruled supreme, disease ran rampant, and women had all the rights of a farm animal.
Take out the disease and you’re on to something, I think…
And you wonder why the democrats are always trying to take away your guns…
Wow! Even I find that a little off the wall!
You have some issues sir. I was merely commenting that it takes some brass balls to call the early days of our country the “good ol’ days”. I don’t know of a single person who would have had a better life back then.
So save your pathetic ranting and raving about stuff we already know about for the appropriate thread. Also, I’d invite you to cool off for about an hour, then read your post again and maybe realize how insane you sound. Shall we list your posting sins?
1) Assumption of statements not made. I do not “look down” on anyone. I do not hate the USA. I do not know any university professors, ex or otherwise, hippie or otherwise.
2) The raising of irrelevant points, though, I will address them for your sake and enlightenment. Illegal immigration is not the subject at hand. That said, generally speaking, illegal immigrants are not horse-whipped, lynched, and raped. They also came here voluntarily, and are free to leave. Poor working conditions does not not equate to slavery. Your second point. Slavery in Eastern Europe and Asia. That’s horrible of course, but I’m neither European nor Asian, nor do I have any power to do anything about it, nor am I in any way responsible for it. Again, irrelevant to the subject at hand, which is the raising up on high a time in our country’s history that wasn’t as rosy as people make it out to be.
3) You hurled insults and they weren’t even clever. “Pathetic morons” “totally clueless”. If you don’t have anything productive to say, it better be clever, and if it isn’t, then YOU need to “shut the f**k up.”
Anyway, thanks for your time, my unstable friend.
.. and you wonder why the Republicans keep trying to stop your housekeeper from coming to work…
You should see my place. If they are trying to stop my housekeeper, they succeeded, LOL!
Of course they won – they have all the guns! lol
Man, sometime we DO see eye to eye. I read that pile of tripe and made the assumption that someone has been smoking a bit to much crack. You reply was absolutely brilliant! Kudos to you..
If we just took over Mexico like a previous lol suggests we could solve all these kinds of problems…
waitwaitwaitwait. Are you freekin serious? Take over Mexico? What, did I not notice that it’s 1845 again? Since when is threatening another country’s sovereignty over their own lands and people an acceptable solution to anything?
We had a lol on this earlier and that was the consensus. Go back and look for it for some context, it was a funny one.
Info: it wouldn’t be a hostile takeover. I believe we agreed we’d buy it cheap.
The other option was that since they are all coming over here anyway, we just wait until they are all here, then we invade. Either way would work though.
Either way it’s all peaceful-like. No gunplay.
Well, maybe a few cap guns, for effect. Squirt guns would also be nice if it’s a summer invasion.
…Hmm, interesting. Jobs keep moving down there… they keep coming up here… Now if we move there and they move here….
Hmm…
We should turn the tables and give them like manner:
Secretly and illegally send our citizens there to take jobs that they as citizens deserve first, receive pay from those jobs free of taxes, get protected by their government to stay there and take their money and jobs free of attachments
and consequences, make everyone put all written language in English along with Spanish, and not even have our children there learn Spanish on the basis that the Mexicans should be more worried about speaking English than we should be about learning Spanish.
Just a thought…
Wow that was a lot of bile over nothing. We are allowed to find irony in our history and hypocrisy too. It is called reflection. People do that when they want to learn from their pasts. If we get a chuckle, that’s good too.
As for slaves in other countries, that is horrible but I don’t quite see you leading the charge so spare us righteous indignation today.
Wow, how did this end up posted twice. /facepalm /headdesk etc.
Dude, take your own advice.
Ouch my E-pride…
No…that was directed at hater hater.
Yay, I’m just blind then. XD
“Good old” was ironic…
Illegal immigration doesn’t cause slavery. Asshat rich white people who don’t want to pay fair wages cause slavery. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. Same cause as what precipitated the Civil War, same cause that depresses wages now in the 21st century.
There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that the Constitution only provided freedom to asshat rich white men with land. It’s true. It would still be true today if other groups hadn’t fought for their rights because I notice any time someone even suggests to a white man that some other group ought to have full legal rights, the white man freaks out about them taking *his* rights away. Rights to what? Be the top dog without earning it?
By the way, citizens of the U.S. are made into slaves IN the U.S. every day. You might want to do a little reading of your own. As far as I’m concerned, workfare and Selective Service are slavery too, or at the very least involuntary servitude, which was also outlawed by the 13th Amendment.
Dana, do you perchance believe that seeing rainbows close to the ground are a government conspiracy?
Are you French, or maybe French Canadian?
Call me a white asshat .. one.. more…. time.
Scuse, but what the hell is wrong with workfare? And I’m speaking as someone who’s been THROUGH IT. You don’t wanna work for your welfare, GTFO welfare, simple. I had to do workfare for my father’s benefits as WELL as mine when I lived with him and we were on it. (And FTR, I’m now off it, and in college, before someone decides to attack me regarding that).
This is a picture from 1782 showing General George Washington in uniform.
The US constitutional convention was in 1787. Washington was a civilian and dressed like one.
Washington couldn’t have believed in the constitution before it was written.
That was too inane for words to amply describe.
Literalism FTW *eye roll*
Maybe it was the general (no pun intended) CONCEPT of dear old GW?
Some of you guys need to realize that in SOME respects economic slavery is worse than physical slavery, ONLY in that it keeps ALL of us in shackles…for instance..the federal reserver which is PRIVATELY owned…yeah…so ALL of us are getting pwned.
I suggest a book some of you need to read as well: Zinn’s “The People’s History of the United States of America.” Also..a good film is “Zeitgeist,” but in reference to THESE comments…I’d say you should watch the 2nd and 3rd parts of the film.
Pepperidge farm remembers.
As do the makers of Quaker Oatmeal.
Hey guess what? That picture of Washington was before he even believed in independence, let alone the Constitution. Nostalgia Fail.
Imagination fail.
Taking things too literally Fail.
Not that I’m arguing against you, but I can’t find a reference with the date of the painting. May I ask where you got this information?
Maybe Jacob’s an Art major. It wouldn’t be that hard to find the date
of the painting if you Googled correctly.
I found a few similar paintings all claiming to be from 1782, no concrete sources/
Although it doesn’t really matter because the date of the painting has little to do with the caption :/ I was merely curious.
Not only did they believe in the Constitution, but most of the founding fathers believed in God as well, and tried to build the foundation on the country as such. Remove God from the foundation of our country, and with the loss of the key element holding everything together, everything collapses, corruption runs rampant, and hilarity ensues.
If you REALLY want to blame someone for the slaves, look across the Atlantic Ocean (if you live in the Americas, anyway). We all have the Portuguese to thank for the beginnings of slavery. Oh, and let’s not forget the fact that in the country of Africa, slavery was already running rampant throughout the tribes living their. Slavery wasn’t something the “evil empirical oppressors” invented – but I do not defend their evil ways. What I *am* saying is that the slave trade was already in high gear in Africa. The African slaves delivered to the French, British, and Spanish Caribbean colonies far outnumbered those that were delivered to the United States. Furthermore, after Britain and France abolished slavery, the United States followed suit, and in reality it was Brazil that kept the slave trade going the longest, all the way until 1904.
Also, the African slaves were captured *by their countrymen*, often brutally, and they were dragged off to be sold on the market.
So, here we have the classic “chicken and the egg” problem. What’s really more at fault, the pre-existing, thriving African interior slave trade, or the Portuguese that happened upon it?
Anyways, now that I’m done with THAT rant, I think I’ll move on. We can criticize this, that, or the other thing about the founding fathers, their sins/crimes/atrocities/whatever you want to call it, but we’re only slandering those that gave us the foundation for the country that we have had – and now continually try to tear apart. It was their sacrifices that lead to the widespread freedoms that we enjoy. Throw the Patriot Act and the War Power act, and whatever other act you want in my direction. In all honesty, the government has had that ability in the past and never used it. After all, the President has ALWAYS had the ability to enter conflict for no greater than 90 days. We can jump up and down and shout bloody murder about the war in Iraq, but in all honesty, the country was run by a dictator who lived in huge palaces and enjoyed a lavish lifestyle while his own country continued to go downhill. The last time we removed someone like that from power, the effort was a multi-national effort and the removal of the dictator was applauded. Now, we criticize the President, say we shouldn’t go in there, do this or do that, or interfere with their culture.
If we didn’t do *exactly* that back in 1940, there’s a strong likelyhood that Europe would be almost entirely German-speaking, we would have faced a very serious and bloody invasion on our own shores, and we may have fallen into a serious national darkness a long time ago.
I really have to ask, has 20th century history been forgotten? Have we already lost the hard-learned lessons that we had back in World War Two? Has history already begun to slip away from us? I say that because really, all I see anymore is incredibly large amounts of criticism against actions that were highly praised back in the Twentieth.
I’ve got an idea! The next time an evil leader rises up and does incredibly evil acts, invades other countries, and wreaks havoc on another continent, why don’t we listen to the majority that cries out against war and let that evil leader go on unchecked? Better yet, why don’t we give countries like Iran and North Korea freedom to develop nuclear weapons? Furthermore, why don’t we just withdraw all our troops, dismantle our Marine Corps, Navy, Army, and Air Force, and turn into a completely pacifist country like the one that had no problem harboring the wealth of Nazi Germany?
If you think that idea sounds absurd, now you know how absurd it is to cry out against the removal of power of a dictator that really needed to be stopped.
And on the subject of the dictator:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/07/05/saddam-uranium.html
Ehm…usa invaded europe to avoid Stalin tanks reach Lisboa…Hitler army was already on the route of the collapse as soon as the end of ’42…no oil, no gas, no steel…and not so many man to grind on the front…
If you talk of history, be sure to know about it…and not only from your “mind masters” but from some more trustfully sources…
And no one in the world said “dont go in iraq” but “WTF? Going now after more than 10 years of saddam leftover by YOU at the end of desert storm and alone without U.N. cover? It’s a fuking run to oil…assholes!”
“… but most of the founding fathers believed in God as well, and tried to build the foundation on the country as such…”
Show me anywhere in the Constitution that mentions Christ, Jesus, or God. I’m not denying the faith of the Founding Fathers; I’m challenging the asinine assumption that the FF created America as a Christian Nation. To wit, the FF wanted to avoid the situation of England, with a State-operated Church governing. This is why the first freedom in the First Amendment specifies that Congress shall make no law respecting the foundation of a religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The State was to mind its own business when it came to issues of religion, hence, the separation of the two.
Saying that we need one group’s view of God crammed down our throats in order to create a more perfect union is bullshit, plain and simple.
It’s interesting how many people get offended when someone brings up the less savory aspects of the revolutionary days, as if we have put all of that behind us and everything’s perfect now.
And I bet just about everyone saying that is a white guy, and those who aren’t are probably white *women.* Or a man of color who thinks he’s put one over on white guys and “made it” in life anyway, and looks back with contempt on his brothers and sisters who are still struggling.
Everything is *not* perfect. And we cannot fix the entire world, and they resent it when we try without invitation. But we can fix *here,* and we’d better. The Founding Fathers only *began* something. The United States is not a complete work, never was, never will be. There’s a reason we’ve had to amend the Constitution over twenty times, and still have more to do.
I’m sorry, you lost me after *interesting*. Exactly what is your *point*?
To paraphrase: WHARRGARBL!
Seriously, just because there’s room for improvement doesn’t mean we have to disrespect the founding fathers. Every age has its imperfections, but the good usually outweighs the bad.
The founding fathers threw off the yoke of one of the mightiest countries in the world (at the time) and laid the foundation for a nation built on the rule of law, with no nobility or aristocracy to oppress the citizenry. They hammered out a constitution that has stood the test of time and been the inspiration for several imitators in foreign lands.
They did it right. To focus only on their failings is a disservice to history itself, and reveals a poor understanding thereof.
Exactly! We can’t equate the way life was in the 1700′s with what we have today. But, isn’t it amazing that the the Constitution is still relevant? Talk about a group of forward thinking individuals!
I’m not sure, but I think her point is that she is smarter and more aware of the injustice in living our everyday lives than anyone else, ever. Or she wants us to all become lesbians. I’m pretty sure it’s one of the two.
I’m a male lesbian, does that count?
Is a male lesbian a queer gay or just from the isle of lesbos?
On that note, did anyone else wonder why that horse is trying to gnaw off its own leg?
well, George is in the Coyote Ugly category of men…
first male cameltoe
EVER!!!
…
Screw you for making me curious, then having to scroll back up to the top so I could examine Washington’s area.
Damn it, I wasn’t going to look until I saw you comment.
Well hello there Mr. President! Is that a cherry tree or are you just happy to see me?
Great now I am laughing at work. Hopefully I am not asked to explain. You guys are the best.
me neither, you SOB’s or daughters as appropriate.
Kinda like the seen in “Labyrinth” when David Bowie smacks Hoggle in the face with his junk? It just burns itself into the retinas.
Yeah, but I feel that it’s a good kinda burn. If we’re talking about David Bowie’s package that is…
Umm i found it quite odd that well the big argument is about the forefathers and the constitution and well sorry to burst your bubble but the president shown above is George Washington who DIDN’T operate under the constitution but the article of confederation, the Constitution wasn’t drafted or put into effect until after his terms as the president of the united states.
I do apologize for paying attention in what would it have been, fourth grade history?
EPIC HISTORY FAIL!! (and I rarely run the capitals)
* The Constitutional Convention drafted the Const. in 1787; it was ratified June 21, 1788.
* Geo. Washington served as President from April 30, 1789 to March 4, 1797.
Just to clarify the timeline: 1788 came *before* 1789.
yeah, the founding fathers hated the Constitution- they thought it was a weak document full of half assed compromises and they thought they would redo it in a few years.
True enough.
I -do- recommend everyone read Howard Zinn’s _PHotUS_, though. It helps to balance the apotheosis were taught in school with a bit more genuine history.
Once again, I would like to mention how, when the South used slaves the North used women and children, mostly Irish: the South was agrarian and needed people that could tend the fields (Africans worked the fields better than any other group); whereas the North was mercantile, mostly textile mills (women were good weavers, children has small hands for dislodging jammed machine parts)
Phisical slaves can feel the urge for freedom and uprise, setting them free if they are enough to create a indipendent community (or in the early phases, if they run very fast)
Economical slaves are mostly unconscious of their condition and will probably think, when working hard for a bread chunk, that they are doing right.
When instead they are just waging a poor vs. poorest war for only the leftovers of the richest.
You’d be surprised how many people stay in soul-sucking jobs out of fear–of losing their homes, of losing their *kids*, of even losing their self-respect. It doesn’t matter whether someone’s got a 100 degree fever or a 104 degree fever, they’re still sick. Injustice should be fought no matter where it lies.
I remember about those. Had a friend who was huge into history so I got all sorts of little tidbits lodged in my brain.
I should still grab that book and give it a read though. Thanks for the recommendation.
I share Zinn’s political opinions, but I found his book to be needlessly vitriolic. Only those who already agree with him will read it.
And I thought my outlook was bleak.
I’m an economical slave.. I work because I’ve grown accustomed to eating.
lol!
I’ll prefer to die trying to kill and eat my oppressor than starve under his foot and give over to him future generations of slaves…
Thankfully at the moment I can have much more than food, (and I have to complete some things like complete the medicine degree (not in USA) otherwise i’ll be only a food consuming useless people) before thinking to start an uprising, but things are rapidly going in the right direction for a total chaos…
Have a nice planetary insurgency ;-P
I found its bitterness to counterbalance the sugary-fluff of a standard US History textbook. I’m not suggesting only reading Zinn, but to take it as a counterbalance.
And they are lucky they have the means to provide for the families, something which many people around the world do not have the freedom to do.
I quantify this as many levels of suckitude. Yes I realize that other people’s lives suck worse than mine. However, my economic life still sucks. I will do what I can for others when I have my family cared for first.
LoL I’m an old-skool commie
Remember, communism is sharing! So when your mom told you to share, she was actually turning you pink-o.
Huh? It was a joke, man.. I wasn’t lobbying for a rambling commentary.
If that is the case…whay are you studying medicine?