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Heh
yeah, someone else worked hard baking a pie for themselves and their family, but under tax laws, he feels entitled to a percentage of it.
Yeah, fat cat executives, football players and Paris Hilton certainly work 400 times harder than middle class families, firemen, soldiers, plumbers, nurses, teachers and police officers, so they should be entitled to 400 more pies. In fact, take half of each middle class family’s pie and give it to them as well (Actually in Paris Hilton’s case this may be justified, she looks like she could do with some)
Clearly the pay of these people is not related to the demand of their abilities or their appeal.
Anyone can do the work of a middle class family. They do the drudgery that anyone else can do, and thus are not in high demand.
Are you actually this dense? Do you not understand why these people are paid more? Get out. Just log off of the internet and stop talking. Forever.
I for one could never do half the things Paris Hilton does.
You’re not nearly as easily recognized as Paris, either.
Also, look at where most of her money comes from. I don’t think
inheritance is considered a means of income.
She has a very healthy income – but do you think that she’d be getting that income if she hadn’t been given an easy life and boost up by her parents? The idea that everyone is paid according to their worth is nonsense, income is mostly hereditary.
How about the boost Obama’s kids are getting by going to private schools in Chicago, and now in likely in D.C. when the poor aren’t allowed to chose the schools?
But if we let the poor go to rich peoples schools that would be socialism!
School system already pretty socialist.
That’s the public school system. We’re talking private here.
So what’s wrong with letting people, poor and rich, use their share of the tax dollars to send their kids to a private school if they want to also give their kids a “boost”? It seems only the wealthy are allowed to get the choice to send their kids to good schools. No amount of money will fix the public schools in my opinion unless they get some competition.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong competition is so far from the problem. The problem is where they are located. Schools are funded based primarily on income tax therefore wealthier districts have better funded schools. Better funded schools allow children to excel whereas underfunded schools almost always (but not 100%) spell failure. IT has nothing to do with competition; all of the inequalities have been established as long as rich and poor have lived generally away from eachother. The only way to fix it is to redistribute how money gets to the schools. Bush also tried to further destroy our schools with no child left behind but thats another story. Sorry for being rude at the beginning but this is my area of study/profession afterall.
I’m just pointing out that you’re the one who has been harping on Obama being a socialist – like it’s a bad thing. And now you’re pushing a socialist agenda.
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It boggles my mind why Republicans say giving a tax cut to the middle class is Socialism, and that it’s bad. Then in the next breath state we should habne all the middle classes tax money over to private institutions.
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Why do you Republicans hate the middle class?
I still don’t believe quality of education = amount of money spent. I know we spend more money on education in this country than in other countries where their kids out perform ours. But, I agree that they should all get equal money and especially the teachers should get more pay…
“Why do you Republicans hate the middle class?” —- Oh, that’s the source of your confusion, I’m not a Republican! I’m a conservative Democrat.
Statistics prove that it really does. People who come from better school districts tend to be more successful. As long as we base school funding on property tax, we are never going to have an egalitarian, scratch that, a FAIR society.
In at least one northrn NJ county, they were encouraging the building of $1M homes – and calling them ‘affordable housing’ because there IS n definition (in that county) of what constitutes affordable housing. It turns out to have been rather deliberate; people who can afford such homes have 1, 2, or no children. The county didn’t want people with 4 and 5 kids moving in and ‘messing up’ their schools by using more funds.
Yes, I’m hunting up the citation now…
That could also have to do with the attitude and support they get from family, etc. If your family is successful you will also be successful because they pass their belief systems on to you. If you are not successful you will pass that on to your children.
My sweet ema come away with me from this horrible site. We’ll go… uh… i dunno. Somewhere.
Wow…you guys can sure read a lot into pie.
@Lolnathan – Ok! That sounds nice, you tell me where…
it’s true there are a lot of things that lead to a good education. The family enviornment and involvement is one. Funding also plays a part. The schools with more funding can hire the better teachers and administrators.
It all sort of runs together into one atrocious mess. The families with lower income are probably busier with work in order to get by, or have a lower education level, making it harder to work daily with their kids. The lower funding at the school makes it harder to get the better teachers and administrators to run the schools. poor administration tactics lead to a bad school enviorment, stress on the teachers and it all leads back to the child being screwed.
“we are never going to have an egalitarian, scratch that, a FAIR society”
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Life isn’t fair, has never been fair, and never will be fair. If you think it is or should be, it’s time to grow up. Seriously. It’s nice to be a dreamer, but get a touch of reality.
That is a horrible attitude on life. We are all interconnected and you would do well to acknowledge the humanity of other people. Also ema, I remind you that family attitude is a RESULT of inequality, not the cause. It may help perpetuate it but it is not the source of the mess.
Life is pain, jamlayfa. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
Not trying to change it is a bad attitude in my opinion. It is simple morality to help out the little guy yet many republicans (not all) who throw morality in our faces and call us baby killers pull the “I’ve got mine buddy, good luck getting yours” crap. If changing the world wasn’t worth it then why have a renaissance enlightenment civil rights movement end to apartheid etc?
No. That is nowhere in Scripture.
What version are you reading?
The ‘I’m A Sarcastic Weenie’ version
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Love you herb
Thanks herb, between the sermon comment and the “if I had a nickel” comment, I just about died laughing. Good show!
“And lo, Jesus did b*tchslap the moneychangers.”
They needed an attitude adjustment…
About the educational quality being based on income brackets I’m not sure that any amount of money would help these kids. I work at a pretty multi-cultural firm and have found through discussing such things with my co-workers from other countries, that the education children receive is based on the importance of that education to each child. In other countries they base how well you’ve done on your education and degrees while in America we base how well we do on how much useless, wasteful junk we have. I think if we as a society would change our view on what is important then our education system would have no choice but to be held to those same standards. In a country run by excess, looks and street smarts how can you expect kids to even want to try to be book smart?
You are looking at biproducts of inequality, not at the cause of it. Kids turn to the streets and excess because they believe the school system has failed these kids. I tutor at an alternative high school and these “failures” are really bright and wonderful kids when someone actually takes the time to try and help them. People can talk attitude all day but you and ema can only speculate, my career involves working with these kids and learning about their lives. I don’t wanna shoot you guys down but you both are off on this one.
“The idea that everyone is paid according to their worth is nonsense”
She is paid that much because people are _willing_ to pay that much to see her. therefore, she’s worth that much.
“income is mostly hereditary”
Opportunity is hereditary. Income is what you do with that opportunity.
The idea that people are only paid how much people are willing to pay them is a rather obsolete notion when the super rich often set their own pay, award their own bonuses and give jobs to family members rather than the person who is the most competent at the job.
And yet people still do it.
Do you watch TV at all? Then you’re a hypocrite.
Buy any products that have ever been advertised? Hypocrite.
If you don’t agree with the status quo, then leave. Feel free to live in a commune where you can be miserable and die in the cold. Enjoy your equality.
Ok, ease off Ceefax. He’s a seasoned debator here, and not worthy of your trolling.
“Do you watch TV at all? Then you’re a hypocrite. Buy any products that have ever been advertised? Hypocrite.”
Uh… What? Either you’ve found some definition of hypocrite that I’m not aware of or you’re going to have to explain your logic here.
“If you don’t agree with the status quo, then leave.”
Several problems with this, firstly I’m not in America. Secondly, the US was founded by people who didn’t like the status quo. What should they have done? Thirdly, there are many people on your fringe of the Republican party who weren’t happy with the status quo during the Clinton years and doubtless won’t be happy with it over the next four years. Which conservative paradise are they going to move to?
Hyp-o-crite: n. One who uses logic to disagree with me.
Mmmm I love burned T-bone..
Thanks herb!
If I have a job, and I want to give it to my family member instead of some guy off the street, then so what? It’s *MY* job to do with as I please. Most business folks however *don’t* do this because anyone with any reasonable amount of business experience will tell you *never* hire anyone you’re related too because they’ll feel entitled and if they’re a big screwup and you fire them you’re causing family drama.
Just because someone is ‘more competent’ at a job doesn’t mean they’re right for it either. If they have a crummy personality or don’t fit in with their co-workers, it’s jus as bad or worse as not being good at what you do because you bring the rest of the workplace down. And then there’s the issue of “overqualified” folks that can’t get jobs because no one wants to pay them what they’re “worth”. Which effectively makes them worthless. Some will work down to the job level if given the chance, but many employers will view that as a potential problem in the future instead of a bargain employee. They’ll feel the person won’t really be happy and wil move on, or make demands the employer is unwilling to meet.
Oh, and it’s not the “super rich” that set their own pay, award bonuses, etc. That’s every single entrepreneur, even of small businesses. So all in all your entire message was wrong. Sorry.
He’s objecting to the cronyism and politics of greed that have been a catalyst fot this type of hoarding.
OK, case in point, the son of the former owner and chairman of my local sports team. He was on the payroll for years with no-one being entirely sure what he did. the only contribution he seemed to make was to be caught on camera binging on champagne and coke with some hookers and telling an arab businessman that people who bought the overpriced club merchandise were idiots and the local women were all ugly. He was then promoted to the post of “Worldwide promotions officer” and continued to receive a 7 figure salary plus huge bonuses in spite of ticket prices continually rising. Apparently he was working out of an office in Gibraltar, which very handily (along with expensive accountants, adept at finding loopholes) meant he paid hardly any tax. But when some fans went to investigate, they found his “office” boarded up and empty.
This kind of thing doesn’t help employees, it doesn’t help customers, it doesn’t help the economy nationally or worldwide. The ultra-rich and monolithic businesses in the west have been under-taxed and under-regulated and, as you may have noticed, it’s had a cataclysmic effect on the economy.
Which plan makes more sense for the country as a whole – a tax plan which means 5% of the country can’t afford a new car or a tax plan that means 30% of the country can’t afford the fuel to get to work by Friday?
And by “new car” I mean “third car”
But I bet you’re all for affirmative action…
got any more fortune telling tricks?
What card am I thinking of?
lets see.. you’re talking matrix… so… The King of Jackasses?
race card
LOL!!
God forbid someone decides how to spend their own money how they see fit. No! We can’t let that happen! The government must intervene because it NEVER mismanages money and can ALWAYS decide how best to spend other people’s money.
Oh come one now! They’ll let us keep a little bit…
And now Ema with our new president, you’ll get to keep more!
Sorry, but are u SERIOUSLY gonna talk about Paris Hilton’s means of income?? Oh, it must be by way of that stupid show on MTV…what is it, Paris’ new BFF? Yeah, her “abilities and appeal” definitely outweigh what a teacher, nurse, etc. does.
“Anyone can do the work of a middle class family.”
I’m sure there are plenty of middle class families who are busting their ass doing jobs that you could never do, you pathetic little oik. Is this the ‘elitism’ that liberals are so often accused of raising its head here? How about you turn off your dad’s computer and go out and do some work in the real world?
Yeah, Paris Hilton is worth far more to society than firemen and soldiers, it’s only fair she gets rewarded for it.
“I’m sure there are plenty of middle class families who are busting their ass doing jobs that you could never do, you pathetic little oik.”
I’m sure. That’s why there’s how many plumbers? How many manual laborers? How many uneducated masses?
Your point is moot. Statistics back mine entirely.
“How about you turn off your dad’s computer and go out and do some work in the real world?”
Ooooooh, very nice assumption. What’s to say that I don’t do these things? Whats to say I don’t have the experience that you claim is needed? Ad hominin attacks are nice, if you can make them at all relevant to the disagreement.
I reiterate. Turn off your computer, shut your mouth, and never speak again.
You’ve already said that, and it made you look like a two year old having a tantrum last time as well. This trickle down nonsense has been demonstrated as bunk time and time again. There are far more hard working middle class people than there are lazy, coasting CEOs awarding themselves obscene bonuses well beyond the worth of their work and sadly for you, everyone in the country has a vote that counts the same.
“it made you look like a two year old having a tantrum last time as well.” Did my comment about ad hominim attacks anger you? Or just spur you on to make more of them? I love it.
I never mentioned trickle down _anything_. I mentioned that people who are paid more are paid more for a reason. Anyone can do the repetitive tasks the middle class does.
Ask yourself this. Can the average middle class person do a CEO’s job? If you answer yes, you’ve agreed with my argument. They are paid more for a _reason_.
I think what makes some people angry about the amount of money other people may make is that they confuse a person’s instrinsic worth with their monetary work. How dare we say that a middle class bread winner is not worth as much as a CEO!? That is not the point at all, every person has an intrinsic worth that goes beyond any monetary value. But just as some people are more talented, prettier, taller, whatever, some people will always be richer than other people. Government can’t equal that out, ever.
I totally agree. My deal is that someone making $30K a year shouldn’t have to pay a higher tax rate than a CEO. How am I wrong?
.
False. Inequalities have been set in motion years before society reached it’s current state. Also, most tax legislature and such protects wealth; it seeks to let the wealthy keep their money and keep the poor away from it. also, in the past 60 years, real wages for the upper classes have grown quite well while the middle class has seen little growth and the lower classes have stagnated. also, you are wrong in that by definition middle class work is usually skilled and in this day and age generally requires at least a bachelor’s degree. Teaching is now classified as middle class and I can tell you that after 5 years of college plus more for a masters it’s not something anyone can do. The reason CEO’s are paid more is because the wealthy seek to keep wealth at the top. I love how people believe the American dream so blindly without actually studying sociology and the structure of our society.
“The reason CEO’s are paid more is because the wealthy seek to keep wealth at the top.” — That’s completely not true, there is intense competition to find the best CEO for a company because of pressure from stockholders. There is a lot of money at stake, and of course they want to keep it, but it’s not some conspiracy by the rich to keep all the money at the top.
It’s not a conspiracy but think about this: powerful people have powerful friends and most of them are undoubtedly wealthy (takes wealth to get power for the most part). Tax laws are written to keep wealth at the top. Removing things such as the death tax and having a flat tax across all quintiles of income brackets (shudder) ensure that the wealthy hold on to their money. As we hae been haing the talk about schools, I can now show you the final connection. Because these people are wealthy they send their children to the best districts where they have a higher chance of becoming a CEO themselves and the cycle continues. The rich already have the power and the only way to break the cycle is to focus on schooling. Stockholders btw also tend to be upper middle or upper class; anyone below that line generally won’t be able to afford stock.
Do you have a 401k? I do and I’m not wealthy at all, especially not now!
The wealthy don’t hang on to their money, if they are smart they invest in the economy and contribute to the wealth of everyone else. They also spend it on goods and services.
Then why does most of it go to inheritance? If Mr. Hilton gave eerything back to the community then Paris wouldn’t have anything. 10 percent of the population in the US owns 50% of the wealth, that doesn’t sound like they are reinvesting in the economy to me. It sounds like Rich people have rich kids who go to better schools and have a better chance at being rich themselves.
That is just the capital, which is actually invested in the economy, usually they live off the interest. People borrow from that capital. It’s not under their mattresses.
Yes, a little, but not nearly the amount is should be. Most of the money is hoarded in private savings and investment accounts, or even held in banks in Switzerland and Cayman Islands, etc, specifically as a way to keep it to themselves.
What good does it do to them like that? Money is a tool, it should be working for you or it is useless. When it is put to work, it benefits the investor and the economy at large. Putting it in foreign banks does our country no good and we should be enticing these people to keep their investments here in this country to benefit us.
True, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Otherwise those offshore banks wouldn’t exist.
em, you ever watch the old Warner Bros. cartoons? There was a terrific one, ‘Ali Baba Bunny’ in which Daffy Duck ends up shrunken to a teeny figure. When Bugs finds a pearl, Daffy jumps on it yelling, “MINE! MINE! I’m rich! I’m fabulously wealthy!” All that was because I like old Bugs Bunny cartoons, and because ‘being wealthy’ isn’t commensurate with being concerned for the economy. That’s like voting in someone to be treasurer on the sole grounds that they’re rich and therefore unlikely to embezzle. Doesn’t work that way; greed knows no bounds.
em, you ever watch the old Warner Bros. cartoons? There was a terrific one, ‘Ali Baba Bunny’ in which Daffy Duck ends up shrunken to a teeny figure. When Bugs finds a pearl, Daffy jumps on it yelling, “MINE! MINE! I’m rich! I’m fabulously wealthy!”
“Consequences, schmonsequences; as long as I’m rich!”
I loves me some Daffy.
Oh boy, I’d forgotten the ‘consequences shmonsequences’ line – it was GREAT!
Real income also favors the rich too so capital combined with real income leaes little for the lower classes.
leaves* my v key is broken
I know my father is considered upper middle class. a few master’s degrees, a doctorate and doing a job I doubt many would have the knowledge or skill to do.
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Not everyone can be a teacher, there’s several people that retire from their other jobs and take a teaching job thinking it’ll be easy and they get their asses handed to them.
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Truth is middle class spans far to many people for one to make a stupid comment like how anyone can do their job.
I’m confident I could do the CEO’s job. I have a modicum of education, a good business sense… What do you think they actually do? Problem is, I don’t have access to the opportunities required to get that job. I deserve more based on my abilities/capabilities, but this economy makes lots of people like me UNDEREMPLOYED. And that is where trickle-down economics comes in. (or doesnt’ as it were)
Was ad hominim on your word-a-day calendar today? Did it come with a definition? If so, have a look and it might stop your posts dripping with irony, you’re getting it all over the floor.
“Can the average middle class person do a CEO’s job? If you answer yes, you’ve agreed with my argument.”
Huh? Surely if I answer No I’m agreeing with your argument?
True! Self contradiction ftw.
I’m betting ‘ad hominem’ wasn’t the word of the day on the word-a-day calendar, because if it were, the poster would likely have spelled it correctly.
Both of you are making yourselves sound like complete idiots. First off, T is right in that people are paid based on how much the populace is willing to pay for what they provide. This applies to people who write their own paychecks as well, because that money had to come from somewhere.
The amount people are paid is not a direct result of how hard they work. While it is true that within the same field, harder work often results in higher profit, a construction worker and a stock broker cannot be compared directly based on how hard they work. A stock broker’s time is much more valuable than a construction worker’s because he makes more money for his employer. Additionally, The stock Broker has skills that the construction worker does not. He went to college, has technical training, and has the mental acuity for the task.
For a look at trickle down economics, it both does and does not work. True trickle-down economics works like this: Lets say that you are capable of making $50 an hour. You have the skills, and the opportunity to do this. In your workplace, there are $20 an hour tasks, $35 an hour tasks, and $50 an hour tasks. Which of these tasks should you do? Obviously, the $50 an hour tasks. However, the $20 an hour and $35 an hour tasks still need to be done. It is a waste of your time to do them, but they still need to be done. What do you do? You hire someone else to do these tasks for you; someone who is capable of performing $35 an hour tasks. This provides a job for them, increasing their pay, and gives you more money by allowing you to focus on the most productive tasks. This is Trickle down economics at the base.
What people want Trickle down economics to be is that by providing a tax break to the rich, they will pass the savings down to their customers. This, however, does not work. If my customers are willing to pay $5 for my product, and then I lower my prices, I will cut into my profits. My customers will not feel any worse against me for keeping my prices where they were. They were perfectly happy to be paying $5 for my product; otherwise, they would not be buying it. My increase in profits offers me no reason to lower my prices, or to pay my workers more.
As for the “Lazy CEO,” I doubt very much that you have a clue what all is required of a CEO. True, he does not do the hard physical labor, and likely he won’t work as long as others. However, he is up at the top, earning that much money because he is profitable to the business. Once again, he has the skills required to run a business, and the jobs of every employee in the business are in his hands. His work is stressful and intricate.
As a final note, not everyone can do the work of a middle class family. Also, even though it is supposed to be that people are payed based on their profitability, there are those denied opportunities due to unfortunate circumstances. The solution to this problem is not mine to contend. I only deal with the things I can understand, and socio-ethnic-political matters are far beyond my ability to predict or describe.
I was speaking of Ceefax and T, of course. And before anyone tries to jump me on it, I never said that either of them were idiots, just that the petty squabbling makes them look like idiots.
Petty squabbling and looking like idiots is what PK is all about! Otherwise it’s no fun at all…
Thank you for saying that, Ema! I feel validated.
You’re welcome sweetie!
Whatever I can do… now back to acting like an idiot.
Finally, you get the joke
I think Ceefax and T are acting like idioits. I agree with you
Watching and their debate does nothing because niether of them
will sway from their position.
Also please start citing these “Statistics” especially T who has
claimed they support him several times
“There are lies, damned lies, and then statistics.” ~Mark Twain
98.37% of statistics are made up on the spot
I’ve seen Ceefax, but have never seen T before. I’m wondering why Ceefax wants to mess with T, frankly.
Large target?
Thank you for adding that, it was missed in my commentary while defending the middle class. I think you and I together summed it up rather nicely.
It’s always a pleasure to be (a part of) the voice of reason.
Yay reason!!! Wait? What is that?
Reasons are what I put in my oatmeal. And maple syrup.
OOH! Maple syrup!! I want some
The best is Grade C, but that’s not available unless you know a sugarman, otherwise go with B. Grade A is for people with delicate sensibilities.
DWM, T’s and Ceefax’s squabble has made us blue. Could you tell us another story about your wang?
Maybe if you referred to me properly since it would be DWN, I would but instead my testicles will tap dance while my wang looks on disapprovingly.
*testicles dance about, mostly just bouncing, smack into each other and start crying. Wang simply shakes head while I pass out from pain*
I agree with everything but one point… these CEOs everyone is angry at
obviously havent been as profitable for their business as hoped…
considering most of them are tanking and the CEOs are sailing down on
their golden parachutes.
But dont get me started on those damn golden parachutes…. why anyone
believes someone making THAT much money should have ANYTHING if
they screw up and get fired is beyond me. If you’re getting paid that much
the only reason the business fails is if YOU failed it… in that sense, you should
not pass go or collect you 200 millions dollars….
Aw sh*t I got started on the damn golden parachutes.
The Stockbroker’s work is more “valuable” in the most concrete of
ways, that being the immediate profit he or she generates for the
client. However, without that construction worker, the electrician,
pipe fitter, miner, farmer or industrial laborer, the stockbroker would
have no place to go to work, no way to conduct business, and
nothing to trade. Ultimately, your stockbroker owes his/her job to
more than his company or her client.
Second, while the mental acuity may be necessary to be a stock
broker along with education and training, it is not what sets that
profession apart from the construction worker and is at best the
tired argument that profession is a true reflection of one’s intelligence.
I do agree with you, however, about the presumption in this day and
age that corporate executives are a bunch of pretty boys with
few skills and a lot of free time on their hands. A well-run corporation
has an active executive staff; the most effective CEOs know as
much as possible about the goings-on under their watch, and work
more than the standard 9-5. The cult of the worker, wouldn’t
you say, seems to have an incarnation in most modern cultures. Joe the
is just the latest manufactured everyman.
That would be “joe the plumber”.
Personally, my suggestion is learn how sarcasm works. Granted he didn’t use a smiley but I figured a statement that obvious wouldn’t be misconstrued as a serious statement… Especially considering the information around it. If it was stand alone, I could see you having this fit but as is, I think you are tired and not reading it all thoroughly.
I think I know how sarcasm works. It’s also much more difficult to discern without something called ” nuances of speech.”
I did not address any of his sarcastic points because they were pointless in the first place.
T, go home. Come back when you grow up and can actually hold an intelligent discussion rather than insulting regulars and stomping your feet like a child.
Thanks, Froofrou. I was shocked when T wrote “Turn off your computer, shut your mouth, and never speak again.” WTF?? How can someone write and proof those words without the nagging knowledge that intensive psychotherapy is woefully overdue?
Ridiculously Small Penis Syndrome. Known as RSPS, it inspires acts of dickery heretofore uncomprehensible by those in possession of workably-sized members.
“T” is for Troll! Girl, get the stick!
*calls minerva146 to bring Mjollnir*
(what would that be, anyway? Like the BatSignal, only with the PK donkeyphant?)
Someone rang? Lightning smites for all those needing them.
Ya, which he had and I caught onto. As for the statement that anybody can do middle class jobs, I think you are overestimating people’s ability to be plumbers, teachers, etc. Just because there is a decent number of people with the proper aptitude doesn’t mean anybody can do it.
The middle class isn’t replaceable or disposable. It is the basis for wealth in the country. They provide the infrastructure, the most wealth, and the most work. The rich get their money from the middle class by producing a product the middle class wants. They feed back into the system by employing middle class workers to actually do the grunt work for that product.
The entertainment industry is only so well funded because of the drudgery of being middle class. Thus the middle class pays en masse for the entertainment, thus supplying their immense wealth. Paris Hilton is a distraction and as I stated before, we want distraction so we can stop focusing on our lives for small moments at a time. It is when the distractions think they are more important that we have the problem. It is the same when the CEO forgets who buys their wares.
CEOs and Entertainers and others in the higher tax brackets should never forget that the Middle Class is the foundation of all economy. We build, we service, we make civilization work. We deserve the tax breaks because we actually do the majority of the work. We need more of our money back to survive and actually buy what is being sold.
The rich will always have a source of income that is high as long as they learn to treat the middle class properly. Their money came from us and the services they buy with their wealth come from us. The taxes they pay are part of that social contract. The rich are only rich because of us.
If the doctor wants to complain about higher taxes then he needs to remember that most debt is from medical bills. If he forgets that and opposes a tax break to help us out, how will he get paid? He won’t suffer if he can’t get a yacht but we will suffer if we can’t afford health care.
I agree with you except on the doctor point. If from what I’ve heard from the doctors I know is correct (which it may not be, although they seem to be pretty reasonable individuals) most of the money (and bills) is being charged by and is going to administrators and malpractice insurance companies as opposed to the doctors..
True but the point remains about who needs the tax break. The doctor isn’t going to suffer a pinch like the middle class will, especially with how high medical bills are in the first place when a significant number can’t afford insurance.
A lot of them, especially specialists, still have money left over for the yacht once their student loans are paid.
Assuming they ever needed to take out a loan in the first place.
So much goes towards malpractice insurance and such because we’re in such a litiginous society where if a doctor doesn’t “provide mah miracle cure!” then the patient “is gonna sue ‘em for every last red cent he’s got!”
After my wife and I lost our first daughter to a congenital aberration, three of my in-laws suggested we sue our midwife for not noticing it.
We explained that (a) we decline prenatal ultrasounds, (b) our midwife was a close friend, and (c) money wouldn’t bring Hazel back. They responded with “Well, you’re qualified to make those sorts of medical decisions, and besides, wouldn’t you feel better with a quarter-million dollars?”
And they are medical professionals. *sigh*
Hypocrisy, thy name is medical professional. I do suppose they take the Hypocratic oath.
Certainly not the Hippopotamic Oath.
INCONCEIVABLE!
Doctors hate midwives. “How dare women think of giving birth like it’s not a medical emergency!”
What’s odd is I’ve never met a female OB/GYN. Just as I wouldn’t really want to listen to a woman advise me on pissing standing up, I can’t imagine a man explaining childbirth to a woman.
… I will stop myself before I get deconstructive over the whole issue since I do think an education can help you prepare somebody despite whether you have personally had the experience. A doctor who has never had cancer is still considered valid enough to give advice about cancer pain.
GAH, I did it anyway!!! *headdesk* Sorry herb. -_-
Touché.
Has anyone else noticed that No Offense Intended has yet to say
anything that could even be MISTAKEN for non-offensive?
At least he warned you!
A lot like the folks who say “Now I dont want to sound racist but……”
Actually, I think the entertainment industry ought to be in a category by itself, as it’s much more dependent on “what the traffic will bear” than other fields of endeavor.
I have a reasonably decent singing voice and can carry a tune. I would also be quite willing to get up on a stage and sing half a dozen of Britney Spears’ greatest hits. The difference is that nobody (I’m pretty sure) would be willing to pay ME what they pay HER for doing the exact same thing, as contrasted with other types of business, where everybody makes at least equivalent money for the same tasks.
Well entertainment is fickle to begin with since we are using it as an escape. I’ve been told and even ordered a couple times to publish my writing but I am really not sure if it would actually sell worth a damn. I am pretty much a nobody in a depressed economy. Could be an excuse or could be me knowing better. I prefer not to gamble with my family’s wellbeing and I know it would take a lot more time than just writing in my spare time to get a proper novel out of me.
“Get out. Just log off of the internet and stop talking. Forever.”
You’re not the boss of us! So there!
T: “Get out. Just log off of the internet and stop talking. Forever.”
.
You actually typed that!
.
You are going to need a CEO’s pay to afford the psychotherapy you desperately need.
T:
Do you have the slightest idea how ass backwards that statement is?
The highest paid jobs in America require little to no practical skill.
Models, movie stars, musicians, professional athletes, TV and radio
personalities, fashion designers etc
in short every easily exploited source of entertainment. CEO’s are not
paying these people because talent is so difficult to find that it warrants
million dollar paychecks, they’re paid so much because they can get
away with it. If the entertainment industry keeps producing, people keep consuming and the money goes right back into the pockets of the CEO’s it
started with. They set their salaries to ridiculous unnecessary amounts, bully people into paying unreasonable prices with the threat of lawsuit, monopolize their given industries and buy out other companies, making it nearly
impossible for small business to compete, thus limiting the consumers
choice of buying from alternative suppliers.
If you honestly believe that circle of greed and corruption deserves more annual pay than a fireman, doctor or teacher then you are beyond sick.
You think so, huh? Try out for a role in a play or movie. Go play a guitar or piano… try an instrument you’ve never played before. Go practice with a pro football, baseball, or basketball team. See how long you last. Design a fashionable outfit. Get on the radio or TV. See if you can continue to talk over a 3 hour period.
BTW, most radio personalities are not paid that much. Some make up to 50k a year depending on the show and how much syndication they receive. But you know what… those people make a lot of money for their companies. If they make billions for a corporation, that corporation should give them a hefty paycheck. How much money does a teacher or fireman make for the school or department? Most likely nothing. Both are probably paid by tax dollars.
If you really, honestly think that all those things above require no skill, then why are you here? Go be a big star. Most stars come from humble beginning, so go do it! If you cannot, you have no right to complain.
I found my days on ‘Talk Radio’ pretty easy… kept getting banned, but hauled back since the prog was liked… filling three hours, esp with a phone in wasn’t hard. If you were contentious enough you could get several weeks worth of material…
(Actually in Paris Hilton’s case this may be justified, she looks like she could do with some)
There’s such a thing as Valtrex pie?
Boohoo! Don’t like it? Stop buying tickents to games or movies and stop buying merchandise related to sports or entertainment. YOU have a choice where your non-taxed money goes. The government has no right to dictate what amount a person has to be paid for a certain job, unless of course the job is a government job.
That’s pretty much what happened, there was an organised boycott and the owner was forced out of the club.
hey don’t blame the football players for having more talent than you.
If I had 250,000 pies, I could spare a few.
Scratch that; I just looked at the size of my ass. I can spare a few anyway.
Can I have the pies you’re sparing? Are they lemon? =D
(Not that my ass needs pies, either…. DX)
i love the pie, we live the pie
hurry up the pie
mmmm
(check the link in my name)
Did he tell the guy who owns the diner about the taxes? Hope it was *after* he ate the pie!
Yeah, if he told the diner owner about his tax cut first it might look like he was trying to get a discount.
Oh, that’s right. He had to lay off those waitresses and cut back on his hours…
Yeah, a much better plan would be to make it that most of his customers can’t afford pies. He’ll be able to hire loads more staff then!
Well, tell that to Obama, cause he’s the one who will make it so we wont be able to afford pies.
95% of Americans will have more money in their pocket. So they will be able to afford to buy pies. I know he 1300 I would get back under his plan would purchase many a fine pastry.
Even my friend who is a small business owner who makes well over 250k – he makes like $500/hour – voted for Obama. He knows his taxes will go up. But with his income he can still provide plenty of pies for his kids and even a few for his ex-wife.
Thank you, you were much more gracious about the reality of taxes and income than I was feeling right now after hearing the same ignorant argument over and over again without actually taking the perspective of how much 250k a year Really is and why it won’t make people kill their business.
We will see, but I bet prices will rise. Businesses are failing all around us right now and if the government jumps in and bails everyone out our deficit will rise, inflation is going to start. Not a good time to think about raising taxes… But the people have spoken! I will now officially shut up, for the moment.
I will remind you just WHO gave us our deficit once again and ran up a huge bill partying in Iraq. Republicans who love talking about how big spending kills have crashed Uncle Sam’s 10 trillion dollar convertible into a wall and yet blame democrats for everything. Also, because we are in debt, how are we supposed to make money besides gasp asking for taxes. Bush spent a ton and then cut taxes, econ 101 dictates that he is a moron.
It doesn’t matter at all who gave us the deficit, the problem now is to pay it off! Bush is in no way my hero.
Well Republicans like to complain but now that their side has run up a bill, the only way to pay it off is through taxes. At least Barack Obama is going to target the higher incomes for taxes, but either way, someone has to pay for it.
No, no, no! “The only way to pay it off is taxes” is even more ignorant thinking. There is another very simple solution to the problem: cut out all of the over-funded, redundant and under-used government programs. Cut spending back. Neither party seems apt to this, but it is the only way to return the power to the people, and to fix all the arguments over income taxes: cut govenment programs until the income tax becomes unnecessary (or at least diminishable). I don’t have time right now to go into it, but I’m sure that someone will jump on this and run with it.
Cutting spending reduces how much money is wasted but ps the only way to MAKE money is through taxes. Obama is gonna slice off fat where he can but so much of it is deeply rooted into our system that we are going to hae to get new money from somewhere to pay off little Bushie’s spending spree.
Agreed, the only way to make money is through taxes (and government bonds, and investments…). But we already have taxes. And personally, although I will never say this is how it *should* be, I feel that even some programs that people are so keen on, such as social security, should be cut. Make a cut-off so that anyone under “x” age will not receive social security benefits, and then keep up the taxes until the program is run through. it’s no quick fix, but a couple trillion dollars aren’t going away overnight. I feel that if you aren’t sure if the government should be spending money on this, look to the constitution: if it isn’t expressly outlined as a federal government problem, leave it to the states. Yeah, states will have to tax us more, but at least this way we won’t have people in California determining how people from Oklahoma are taxed.
I’m a socialist so it saddens me that my agenda will be on the back burner for quite some time until the economy is fixed but once things are back in business I hope we actually increase social spending.
Hey, I bear you no hatred. There’s a reason we live in a republic. if your plan is the more popular one, so be it. I will not fight to undermine the democratic process.
Overfunded govt. program = Iraq War.
“Bush is in no way my hero.”
Can I be your hero, ema? What if I got a red outfit like William Katt? (reference link under name).
Er, rather not. I don’t know why it changed back to my default. Anyway, it was reference to the 80s show “The Greatest American Hero”.
Yes herb, you can be my hero! Especially if you perfect that forcing politicians to tell the truth powers of yours!
That’s not a typo? Your friend actually makes $500.00 an hour? What kind of business does he own?
[yes, I'm nosey]
Also, is he hiring?
Really? In what world does most people getting a tax cut mean that fewer people will be able to buy pies?
It’s a good job most Americans have a better grasp of maths than that.
Ema how do you work that one out – a tax cut to 95% of americans means most people won’t be able to afford pie? HOW did you work that out?
I think she thinks she an economist. That way the maths don’t have to make sense.
No Uncle Fester I don’t think that at all… It’s simple, tax cut to poor + tax increase to rich = increase in cost of things rich produce. Thats it! Ok, so I know some people say that the rich will decide not to raise their prices or lay off workers in response to a tax increase, because they *want* to pay their fair share… Could be. Anyway I think I said I would shut up…
Since when do the rich make pies?
Rich people are only going to spend as much money as they need to regardless. That’s why they are rich. Give them more money, they save. Give middle-class people money, and what do we do with it? We buy PIE. And other stuff. The more pie we buy, the more people have to go to work to mill the flour, mix up the crust, pick the fruit, milk the cows to get the cream to whip to put on top of the pie … see? And then THOSE people can buy more pie too, because they get paid. And then the rich people end up getting richer not because they got a break, but because they got a bigger slice of the pie (see what I did there?) in the first place.
In all my years of working I have never been able to justify adding a position because “hey, the company is rich; let’s send some of that trickling down.” It’s “Hey, we’re not getting the work done that is demanded of us.” In other words, “We can’t keep up with pie demand.”
You had to go and bring whipped cream into the discussion, didn’t you?
[hungry]
However, thanks for illustrating a point in your last paragraph that’s been bugging the hell out of me for at least the last 8 years — namely, that employees doing well is no longer tied to employers doing well. Less than a week ago, I saw two headlines next to each other. The first read, “Record unemployment in ## years” [sorry, don't remember the exact number of years]. The second read, “Exxon posts record profits for fourth straight quarter”. That ain’t right.
I did. I did have to bring whipped cream into it. Because whipped cream makes everything better.
It’s 14 years, btw. Fourteen years since unemployment was this high.
Best to save the whipped cream for the kinky off-tangents usually begun by DWN or his wang
>_>
<_<
I did not have sexual relations with that dairy product…
Well, I figured it’d been whipped…
MY OFFICE DENIES ANY WRONG DOING!!!
Im in his office and let me tell you the doings are RIGHT… Oh
so right!
So, you’re saying the rich use their companies as a piggy bank rather than run them as a business from which they take a salary (which would then be taxed)
I see…
Your comment—which I assume was addressed to me—seems a little non sequitur-ish/straw man-y, but I’ll address it anyway.
1. No, I didn’t say that (although it can be sort of true; see point 2). My comment was an oversimplification with a lot of steps skipped for the purpose of not boring us all to tears, but I think the main point was pretty clear. Middle class people spend money; rich people save money. You can’t get rich living paycheck to paycheck. Even the invisible wealthy, those who appear middle class and hold down regular jobs but actually have a high net worth, don’t really get the economy moving too much. They’re too smart to think they need to keep up with the Joneses.
2. Wealthy business owners who have built their own businesses, I’m sure, generally do pay themselves a salary. However, they presumably are *at least* as careful with their business finances as with their personal finances, not spending more of either than they have to, unless there is mismanagement going on. So giving them more money just means … they will have more money. And actually, considering the prevalence of stock options and bonuses for upper management, the better the company does financially, the better upper management personally does financially as well (golden parachutes notwithstanding). So it’s not exactly like a piggy bank, but really it’s not too far off.
3. That’s all I have, really, but you need at least three points for a good healthy list.
A little humble pie wouldn’t hurt him any…
I think he displays much humility, frequently.
Because the ‘gazing into the distance and pretending he’s not an elitist’ look goes so far to demonstrate his humility
I still can’t look at him square in the face because he looks so damn smug all the time.
I had the same problem with the shit eating grin on Palin’s face…
I always thought it was shit. Like a clown’s face paint, only from all the shit she actually eats.
Funny, I haven’t been able to look at the current President for the past 8 years. I can’t bear to look at him for more than 5 seconds. You want to talk about ‘smug’ – look at Dubya
I felt the same about Palin…
Funny, I am able to look at him just fine. Hell, I even pity him in a way. Whomever was going to win this was going to be walking into a political landmine. There is a high chance that despite any and all valiant efforts and good deeds that he will come out covered in mud and hopeless for reelection. This is a very nasty situation where you are going into a pool bleeding that is full of little nasty piranha. (sp?)
The pirhana image is apt; no matter how well he does – always hoping he succeeds at least moderately – he’ll take a raft of sh!t for not being god-like and making it all go away instantly.
Who am I kidding? He’ll take that same raft no matter what…
He is already boarding his raft with dignity in my opinion. The upturned nose is to help keep on the noseplug.
I think thats what really tore me up about this election. Either way it went,
I knew I could get behind either candidate and say “Alright John/Obama,
here’s your mess that you wanted, now lets see how you clean it up.”
Its discouraging to see so many people who, without giving an effort otherwise,
are just going to write him off. I mean, he won, by a good amount. He
didnt squeak by, he drove the hit home and won without a doubt.
And now that he’s won its just sad that everyone is going to hang on to the talking
points… he won because he’s black and played racism…. now that he’s won
we’re all going to get taxed to death… now that he’s won he looks even
MORE smug than he did now.
Yet these same people will be American citizens tomorrow… the day after and so on for another four years.
I think that Obama during this election has showed tact, restraint, poise,
intelligence, good judgement, and most of all a thick skin. All of these
things are what we need in a president in the present state of our nation
and the world. Regardless of his policies, can we all at least admit that
he shows the PERSONAL qualifications of a leader of greatest free nation
in the world?
‘pretending he’s not an elitist’?? Frou, my friend who shares my love for lanky men, WHAT?? I would say, wtf? but that’s rude. What’s elitist about him again, please?
No no no, I didn’t say he was elitist, I said he has that look on his face half the time. Go back to the LOL’s the day he was elected. That one of him looking off into the distance is so smug…….
Not saying he is one, just that he looks like one.
-
Not dissing the man. I didn’t vote for him, but he is president of my country, so therefore I will support him. And I have the right to think he looks elitist in most of his pictures
-
(needing me a lanky man right now, *sigh* I wish this day were over so I could go home!)
Mpf, looks… good thing we’re all above that, eh?
Mine lanky man is coming home from work early. Oh, look at the time! Hafta go warm the oil! Bye! *snork*
This piques my imagination. How would a person, any person, pretend not to be an elitist? Reading a comic book in public? But some comic books (i.e. graphic novels) are really well-written and well-illustrated (“From Hell” was excellent if you like Jack the Ripper stories). Going to a NASCAR event or a WWF fight? Smoking a cheap cigar and spitting out pieces of it at random? Owning all the Ernest movies or the “too hot for Jerry Springer” box set? Going to a restaurant and ordering a 40 of PBR or Olde English, and insisting they serve it in an ice bucket?
I’m not being snotty — or no snottier than usual, anyway. I’m a huge geek and probably couldn’t change that if I wanted to, but I also like a lot of silly stuff, junk food, junk movies, etc. Since I don’t know exactly what an elitist IS, the how-tos of proving a negative are a mystery to me.
Just to answer part of the post…….WWF is an organization for the defense of polar bears, not a wrestling organization, hehe.
-
And as far as pretending not to be elitist, it’s simply the look on his face that I’m commenting on. Whether he’s actually an elitist or not isn’t really my call.
You’re right, the wrestling guys changed their initials to WWE after being chastised by the WWF, iirc.
So, does this mean that I can’t have cheap cigars?
[crestfallen]
The also changed their name to World Wrestling ‘Entertainment’ in order to keep from having a doctor ringside. Now they can get away with having paramedics. Now, TNA, on the other hand, doesn’t have to change its name to ‘entertainment’, because Sting is a medical doctor. Can you imagine that? He’s a board certified surgeon! How would you like to have Sting doing an operation on you? Check please!
If he doesn’t use any pain killers, it really will Sting!
*is booed offstage for using bad pun*
Some puns are so bad they’re good. That wasn’t.
*sigh*
PBR doesn’t come in 40s, Tessie. The biggest non-keg size they have
is a tallboy.
The best way for Barack to prove he’s not an elitist and willing to cooperate: he and W sitting in lawn chairs in front of the White House with a suitcase of Pabst, crushing the cans, and tossing them up for Biden and Cheney to use as skeet.
(Obligatory reminder: Pabst Blue Ribbon is the only All-American mass-produced lager beer left, it’s union made and donates money to the arts
)
I’ll admit to having a preconceived image of the man in my mind, and it’s not fair to him. I’ll give him a chance to screw up before I condemn him. I try to be fair like that
You think maybe that’s why Biden is his VP? To make any gaffes O makes less noticeable?
It would make sense. Biden is a one man foot-in-mouth machine.
HAH! That pegged him
It’s actually a case of Biden having connections and being well able to bull things through, but being a comedian isn’t a bad thing either. A good foot-in-mouth can take attention away from where you don’t want it. This is not to feed paranoia about the Obama agenda; it’s just a media fact.
[President Obama looks over a daily briefing. He notes with concern that his peace talks with Iran are falling through, and they are amassing troops along their Northern border, bolstered by "peacekeeping" Russian forces. It's seems as though his promises of peace to the people are about to be shot full .50 caliber holes.]
Obama: “Dammit!”
Aide: “How are we going to deal with this, Mr. President?”
Obama: “Well, we can’t let the public hear about this…” (thinks) “Quick! Get Biden liquored up and send him to a press conference! Tell him that New Jersey has declared itself better than Delaware. That’ll buy us some time.”
*wipes Dr Pepper off the computer screen* Thanks, herb. That was well timed
-
And I don’t think they’d have to liquor Biden up at all, just send him out, hehe.
Take away his floss and toothbrush and watch him start foaming
pearly white rabid froth!
“PBR doesn’t come in 40s, Tessie. The biggest non-keg size they have
is a tallboy.”
Thus proving, if it needed proof, that I’m not a beer drinker.
[scuffles toe in the dirt humbly]
I did like the mental picture of a 40 in an ice bucket, though.
Is that cuz he’s ‘uppity’?
I wonder what kind…
I like-a da pie!
…Is that a velvet napkin?
Well, he is the king!
He can’t be the king, the republicans have thrown too much shit on him.
(hopes somebody gets the nerdy reference)
He can’t be the King, the republicans have thrown too much sh!t on him.
(hopes somebody gets the nerdy reference)
Help!! I’m being repressed!!
some watery tart handed him a sword
Just because some watery tart throws a sword at you that’s hardly the basis for a system of government, is it?
I mean, if I said I was Emperor just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
Python WIN!
‘Moistened bint’ – gotta be one of my all-time favorite insults
But the curtains…
Yes, but can he carry a coconut in his beak?
In the democratically elected with the largest majority in 24 years sorta king way.
-
Matter of fact if you combine the number of electoral and popular votes Bush had in both elections (29 electoral/~2.5mill pop) you still nowhere NEAR what Obama won by last week (203 electoral/~8 mill pop).
He is still a public servant, he was elected to serve. I don’t appreciate the “he is ready to rule” atmosphere in Washington and am just feeling a bit leery. There were still many who didn’t vote for him who are still a part of this country.
And it was Barack himself who DIRECTLY addressed that point in his acceptance speech. He spoke to all those who did not vote for him. Nobody is more aware of that than him, even if you don’t credit him for it.
Credit Obama? I doubt that would happen before all of us are older and more than half of us are dead…
Seem the Valkyries can really only fulminate and play out Godwin’s law while attempting to spread FUD.
I’m talking about crediting him for that particular point of acknowledging that many did not vote for him. I wasn’t talking about anything other than that.
I don’t see any crediting on anything, no matter how minor, in any time frame that’s not geological…
Bee!! I haven’t heard from you since we endured people trashing the Irish. How are you doing?
OMFingG
G W Bush came into DC and spit on every person here with his you didn’t vote for me so screw you attitude.
-
F’ing king like attitude how about impromptu fireworks shows in the middle of the night without telling anyone in the city? What was Bush’s first act? Take the “Taxation without representation” plates of the presidential limo. Bush constantly talked about how much he hates DC.
-
GWB practically went out of his way to punish people who didn’t vote for him. Or did you miss all the reports of illegal hiring practices based on party affiliation. Saying that Obama has some king like attitude when he hasn’t even done anything yet is total carp.
Did you say ‘servant’ while talking about a black person?!
RACIST!!!!
*calls Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee, NAACP*
OK, that’s funny…
Ema, I don’t think Obama is willing to “go all Kingly” on you. Some of his supporters deserve some of that pie in the face, but not That One. Just hide and watch: In January, I predict that he will not declare “I have a mandate,” even though he has. Fake nickel bet? *steels herself for massive facial splattering*
And why am I the first full blooded male ready to comment on this lady’s readiness for a massive facial splattering?
I think he has earned his pie!
In the face!
Ok, I made a funny!! Don’t take it so seriously.
I just hope that he has some free moments to appreciate “pie in the face” jokes in the next number of years!
Ok, that’s funny!
Sounds like a great fundraiser actually… maybe a way to pay off some of the national debt? “Pie Obama!!”
Maybe not really P-E Obama, because that would be a bit unseemly, but look-a-likes for sure!!
I think he would get a kick out of that, given what I have seen of him on SNL and Letterman.
Good one!
Hey, as long as we’re pie-ing [sp?] people in the face, can we pie Adrien Brody? Nothing against him, actually; I just want to see the size of the dent his nose would make in the pie pan.
speaking of pie: please click my name to visit classic pie lovers.
Oh no ya don’t!! I’m not clickin that one…
you don’t like weebl and bob?!? wanker.
Lo, I am become death.
Stealer of pie.
Those (?) eggs are Canadian.
Anybody remember the theme from the sitcom “Good Times”?
Obama finally got his “piece of the pie”…
That was the Jefferson’s not Good Times, lol.
Just cuz it’s a theme song, don’t make it not true.
70′s-80′s sitcom theme FAIL!
To all of you pugnacious whiners up there:
Every time you try to eat something or buy something, I shall prompt a discussion about whether or not you deserve to eat it, whether or not you worked hard enough for the money you are buying it with, what political party you belong to and how they have changed your income, etc etc to the point that you no longer want to eat at all, but rather starve to death instead of listening.
Mass murderers eat pie. Pie=awesome. Freakin a.
*kicks self because above comment will no doubt prompt 984769408 politically-correct self-justified know-it-alls who think big words make them smart to send all kinds of malarkey telling me about the nuances of my statement*
ugh, give me a horse tranquilizer pie.
Elitist – usin’ all dem wordses. U need b inshamed.
At the risk of trashing your rep… I’m starting to like the cut of your jib…
it is a rather good cut of jib, as long as you salt and pepper it and cook it medium rare.
The crumbled bleu cheez also adds a festive touch.
I for one prefer cake.
In before “the cake is a lie”.
What about death?
lolwut.
IT’S NOT ABOUT THE ECONOMY!!! (My husband captioned this.)
The ‘Pie Story’ was a running joke throughout the campaign. Would he tell it? How many times would he say ‘pie’? We heard it at one of the Philadelphia rallies and he told the story saying ‘pie’ at least 14 times.
Do none of you eat pie? Now if he’d said ‘let them eat cake’…but you probably don’t understand that one either.
Which of the four candidates was the richest? McCain by a long shot.
Which was born into wealth? McCain period
All three of the others, Obama, Biden, and Palin were born into working class families. All three pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to where they are today. That is the American Dream and they are living it.
All y’all who are still in a pre-Election mind-set: IT’S TIME TO MOVE ON!
hear, hear, lady. I agree with you.
I’d like to point out that Marie probably never actually said “let them eat cake”. Linked in name.
OM NOM NOM!
You deserve a piece, man XD
I love Pi!!!!!
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841
PEOPLE! Can we PLEASE get back to the issue at hand, possibly THE most pressing issue of our time? One word – PECAN. Thank you.
I will bake that man any kind of pie he wants any day of the week!!!
VICTORY pie.
McCain had some yummy failure casserole, though.
Thank You!