It goes even farther to show the strength of our country as many others here have mentioned: even if a soldier, airman, seaman or marine does not agree with the politics of a military action, they still serve their duty with full conviction to complete the tasks they swore to accomplish despite the sentiment, in the face of all enemies.

That idea didn’t fly at Nuremberg. Just saying.

“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

…he wrote, mindlessly parroting what the right-wing media tell him to say.

Kid, you’re not a soldier. You don’t speak for soldiers, and they sure as hell don’t need little Limbaugh drones to protect them. I’m pretty sick and tired of all of the right-wing talk radio robots who seem utterly convinced that American soldiers are delicate little flowers.

Then again, you’re British. If you didn’t have a pedestal, you wouldn’t know what to do. Don’t peddle your better than thou crap to me, slick. I am not now nor will I ever be impressed. Enjoy your street sweeping.

As to the rest… if ‘in bed’ is as good as I could get with 60% of posts, I’d take up street sweeping… but then, you ARE an American, so I must make some allowance around the idea if you don’t say SOMETHING you cease to exist…

Though I suppose I should relent and state that With a penis would be more clear as to the motivation of those who would send troops into harm’s way without a damn good reason.

Most informed fighting men treat the Gurkha with the utmost respect, bordering on awe. It is deserved. They are tough, resourceful, single minded to the point of ruthlessness, and really best not pissed off.

The treatment of retired Gurkhas by UKGOV is appalling. You’re better treated as a Wahabist Islamic Cleric by that scum.

Actually, my Grandfather came out of WW1 an atheist.
He’d been a Methodist before Ypres. After he was shaken. After the Somme he’d pretty much decided that if there was a God, he was hung on barbed wire in No Man’s Land, being picked at by rats and crows, and he was alone in an insane universe.

A very good film… crappy DVD transfer in R2 though

“People on the other hand don’t have a clue. They don’t need one and don’t want one. They’re happy in the feeling they have a firm grasp on things.”

Figured I would add another ref to fit things.

what old djmv misses is that people have a lot of motives to sign up.
He also misses that most people are as dumb as a fence post.

Tell someone about the Somme, they’ll go ‘uhhuh’ and move on.

Stand them in a cemetery near the Somme (or Ypres, or one other place God died) and say ‘From there, to there, all those people died on the same day’ then they get the scale of what happened.
To hide the special planes coming in is to hide the scope.
To claim, “It’s all a funeral. Show some respect’ is to simply compound the lie that’s being sold by being a retard.

Yes, I had to do that.

Iraq is, at best, perceived as a folly. Like Vietnam, it’s a war with no front, no clear purpose and an unholy high body count. One is the Oedipal hissy fit of an inadequate, the other, proving the point of an averagely marked graduate thesis Neither is a good reason for a war. East Timor was by invitation, Afghanistan, justifiable horror. Iraq and Vietnam were dumb adventures… they don’t serve the country of the soldiers involved.

I can thank people for their service, but regard the people who sent them into harms way with nothing but contempt. Not everyone can do that.

Most I know in UK Mil take the view the underlying reason they’re being sent isn’t their problem. Their problem is to survive long enough to make the combat pay worth their while, while knowing what they are doing si representing a country who sold its honour for oil and adventuring a long time ago. One can try and wrap oneself in flag only if you’re not likley to get draped in it.

I have the utmost respect for our lads and lasses abroad. I wish that the people with the power were actually worth the steam off horse dung, let alone the blood and broken bodies.

Democracies cannot be “made”, and there may be some dramatic changes in government in Iraq’s future (i.e. coupe, civil war, etc). To leave entirely, returning would mean months or years of red tape and resolutions from a UN that has been bought and sold several times over. After all, depending on the conditions, there may not be a sovereign Iraqi government to request or approve our involvement. However, if we leave a small contingent in the southwest corner of Iraq, we can quickly respond to needs and even build-up our presence if necessary. What we should do is get out of their government affairs and out of their cities as soon as is safely possible. But I “personally” think a small on-going presence would be wise. The culture is very localized, kind of “out of sight, out of mind”. I think we could maintain small presence, isolated from Iraqi cities and their daily activities, that may better serve long term peace in the region without impacting daily life. Maybe even that presence should be phased out over 10 years, or after any 5 year period without major conflicts.

Here, I touch on my disagreement with the US setting up democracies. I agree democracy is the best form of government, but you cannot expect a created democracy to have the same success as one purchased with the blood of its people. It’s like giving a 16 year old a new sports car. They did nothing to earn it and will likely not respect the gift they were just given.

I would have preferred to work alongside Iraqi freedom fighters the entire way, handing them control of the government and requiring that they establish a democracy. We could have then partnered with them to establish a policing force to ensure order during the transition. I know this has been tried in the past, with varying degrees of success, but I am just wary of any nation maintaining a democracy that was “handed” to them. (No disrespect to the many brave Iraqis that have sacrificed and even died to setup their current government. There sacrifice was honorable and great, I just wish it was more widespread.)

The caption in this photo does disgrace that commitment. I cannot remember the famous general that said (paraphrased) “I hate war in a way that only someone who has experienced it can.” That is how most soldiers feel. Not “get me home now”, but “finish the job now, so I can go home”.

Plenty of mistakes to go around in this war, and a lot of talking points made simply for talk. I think everybody wants the war over and the troops home. To not give the enemy a calendar invite for when to resume operations (timetable) does not mean there is any less desire to complete operations.

PS-I work with a charity organization assisting families of deployed soldiers. I have attended many deployments, as well as welcome home parties. I grew up with a father that served 34 years (just recently retiring), my brother and best friend both serve. I do not need to read a BLOG or watch a YouTube video to know what soldiers and families think, I work directly with them. To defend our freedoms, soldiers surrender some of their own (the more reason to respect their sacrifice). I can tell you, soldiers with honor do not post BLOGs or videos that counter the positions of their commanders, it breaks down unity and command. Such actions are, at best, ill advised comments by someone with a lack of integrity. Once out of uniform, your opinion and comments are once again your own. While in uniform, you are to act and behave as part of a unit, not an individual. I have seen many struggle with wanting to do interviews or post comments/content to counter the one-sided media depictions they see when they return from tours, but they refuse to out of honor. They feel they are soldiers, not PR reps or politicians.

Oh, yes, and:

Over over 2 thirds voted for an administration that wanted to “stay the course”.

Bush won in 2004 (the “stay the course” election) by 51%, so you’ve got serious fraction fail there.

Just look how soldiers images are used here. After 6 tours, my brother is still blown away at how poor and one-sided coverage is every time he returns home (4 required, 2 voluntary). This very thread is on a image used to portray soldiers as fed up and begging to come home. Do they want to come home? Of course. Are they fed up and pleading for a return…no. Over over 2 thirds voted for an administration that wanted to “stay the course”. They want to finish the job, and they see the positive impact they are having every day. The lives being saved that are NEVER reported on. I sent an article to several major news outlets on how a local unit saved a 12 year old girl whos school was just bombed by the Taliban (because they do not think girls should go to school). One of the lucky to have survived, she had a broken back and head injuries. They diverted from a planned mission to pick her up and get her to safety. Not a single newspaper or media outlet would even mention the story. There was a time movies were made from such events, now it is unpolular to glorify an unpoplular war.

There can be no trust that, if images of caskets were provided, they would be used respectfully.