PATRIOTISM
Remember when it took more effort than waving around a cheaply-made flag?
picture: dunno source, via our lol builder. lol caption: Rob%20S.
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PATRIOTISM
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They’re frozen in time, indeed.
*hangs head in shame while holding cheaply-made flag*
I see nothing wrong with the cheaply made flags.
However, its the people that believe that alone makes them more patriotic than someone else, a “better” American than others. The ones that are only patriotic when something bad happens.
Where are all those “patriots” that were out in waves after 9/11? You couldn’t go anywhere without seeing flags and “God Bless America.” Everyone had them hanging out of their freaking car windows, even.
If you’re patriotic, be patriotic. You don’t get to pick and choose.
Putting up with your spouse beating you and defending them when people say, “Hey, you’re spouse is beating you” makes you a better partner.
For most people, patriotism is something like that…
Ya know, you keep sassing and the back of my hand will find ye…
So… What do you tell a patriot with two black eyes?
Nuthin’; y’already done told him twice!
That you’ll be back to skull fu(k them again next year?
ew
You only say ew because you’re intrigued…
And well she should be. I myself tried to imagine how a skull fu(king could result in two black eyes. By my understanding, skulll fu(king means the fu(ker grabs the fu(kee by the hair and chin, and proceeds to engage in forceful oral intercourse with them. Black eyes could be part of the bargain, but that would normally have to negotiated ahead of time, and (in my playbook) any semi-permanent marks would need a written contract, purely for legal reasons.
It requires skill and absolute control…. and a tiny penis, which is why my application was denied. I am ten whole millimeters too big to result in just black eyes.
Hmm, if the skull fu(k results in a broken nose, then two black eyes will follow.
I take it none of you has ever seen Full Metal Jacket.
Guess they haven’t.
Nope, you don’t defend them, you leave them. So if anyone feels that way and believes this analogy, bye now.
i don’t see those ********** conservatives fleeing the country since obama was elected.
Hmmmm, don’t recall any conservatives sayign that they would leave the country, that was just idiot liberals. We conservative plan to stay and fight, get our country back from this Marxist-trained, socialist moron that is now in the White House. So far, my ‘cut’ of the stimulus amounts to a whopping $2 per check…but it is going to cost me my entire takehome pay for a year. Thanks.
“I see nothing wrong with the cheaply made flags.”
How about flags made cheaply in foreign nations? Is it all right that I question the patriotism of anyone that won’t pay extra to own a genuine Made in America flag?
*looks at fine print*
Made in USA, don’t patronize my patriotism
Eh, they can make the thing in China, with the only thing USA-made being the varnish on the wood, and still call it ‘made in USA.’
Those big, two-feet-by-something flags people buy at double the price because they’re ‘Made in the USA’ are in fact mostly made in China. You put a plastic topper from Detroit on your otherwise-Chinese-made-flag and suddenly it can be called ‘Made in the USA.’
thanks for totally making me feel like crap
I think if you like waving the flag, good for you- since you appear, form other posts, to be INVOLVED in being an American. PP with the patriotism to wave the flag should participate in America- meaning that they vote, maybe even volunteer for a campaign, they volunteer in their community, in a non-political way )i.e. with girl or boy scouts, hospital, schools, etc- even if they do not have a kid), pay their taxes, and do not try to figure out how NOT to (taxes, within reason are the dues we pay for being an American- it is a privilege, and freedom is not actually free financially either), and are respectful to the elderly even when they are a pain in the ass (think, don’t act). Respect that while you do not agree with all of your fellow Americans, that they may have a legitimate POV (not all of them- some are just lucky to be Americans, but you have to at least acknowledge they may be intelligent and informed, and STILL disagree with you. Keep informed about current events so you make informed choices- within reason- too many hours of news can make you nutty. If you (or anyone) does these things, then you can wave your flag all you want- your ACTIONS back up your waving. If instead, you listen only to entertainers (Limbaugh, Maher), to get your information, and believe if everyone who does not agree with you should get out of “your” country, and wave the flag, pretending to be a patriot, well that type are morons. Unfortunately they dominate the flag waving crowd. But if that is not you, then do not worry about it- lead by example with your true patriotism, and good for you! Nothing wrong being proud of our country- it is great (not perfect, but we do alright, and are BEST as self correcting over time). GO for it!
Who the hell do you work for? Lol.
Patriotism in it’s purest form is just the belief that your country is better than another, or ANY other, whether informed or not. And since it seems like 9/10 people in this country have never been outside of it, I have my doubts as to the definition of “informed” for any of us, since by and large our media comes and is absorbed from just THIS country and it’s views on other worldly focal points.
*yawn* Just keep getting blown by the government, dude. You’ll die before you ever matter.
maybe they’re attempting to be ironic?
the symbol of your country better be more than just a flag..
I concur. Our economy is in so much trouble because people can’t be bothered to buy things that are made in America.
That crappy Wal-Mart merchandise is only a good deal until the plant closes, and our interests are not exactly served by the amount of gasoline that it takes to ship the stuff halfway around the world…not to mention the carbon footprint and human rights issues, but I digress.
Demon Hunter fan?
um…not that I know of…..?
Link to one of their vids, Hell.
Hell yes?
Sadly that time came and passed more than a single human lifetime ago…
Well then, these guys are gonna be p*ssed when the come back to life and see what some idiot has put into their cold hands.
I ‘spect that these Patriots would be pissed off about a LOT more than cheap flags.
Like women and black people voting.
But really their reaction is probably going to be “By god! What is that metal bird flying in the sky? Why does it make such a sound? I’m frightened of the horseless carriages!!”
“Why do all those people have little things stuck in their ears with blinky lights on them?”
“Why isn’t that man wearing a belt, a free Negro with his pants down ’round his knees? Has that man been violated recently?”
Actually, since Jefferson was an Enlightenment thinker, and as was Washington to an extent, they’d probably see it as a good thing
Specifically, a Chinese-made flag.
And this is the comment that most poignantly points out the fallacy of it all…
Well said!
Nicely said! *golf claps*
I think the founding fathers would be fine with cheap Chinese flags. Let’s not forget that the founders of this great land were not a bunch of religious nuts in Massachusetts but were instead businessmen in Virginia who worshiped profit.
win!
That’s a good point. While the founding fathers did great in creating a nice happy place for us Americans to live (at the expense of the Native Americans, but I digress), let’s remember that they were not perfect human beings. Far from it. Hell, they were politicians. How much have politicians really changed in 200 years?
This crop of men was known to shoot each other? Personally?
That a big enough difference? Hell, I would love to see Palin settle a couple disputes with pistols at dawn. I could actually get behind that kind of conviction, at least for the lolz sake instead of watching her beg for money for a legal fund because people are being mean to her…
I’ll give you that one.
They shot each other?
Really?
In a duel, or something?
*Finds new interest in American History*
Check out Hamilton & Burr, if you want interesting dueling action in your American History.
Thanks… Hmmm, very interesting…………………
Ummm no. I don’t remember.
So how are we supposed to show our patriotism? Does this caption imply that in order to be patriotic, I should go join the army or run for senate or something?
Cheaply made flags are all we get. Oh, and voting.
I dunno, working so that all Americans have equal freedoms. Working towards bridging the gaps between those within this country on a social level. Not whining like spoilt children speaking of secession like it is patriotism. Actually putting effort towards a better tomorrow or hell, just simply being a good neighbor and respecting your fellow man and woman.
Any of those work for ya?
Ok. Those work for me.
Honor to be of service.
Also, performing jury duty when called upon. It’s boring, thankless work that needs to be done. Heck, “boring”, “thankless”, and “needs to be done” is pretty much the definition of patriotic service!
Very true, PM! In other words, don’t be this guy: [link]
and to think all i did was reply ‘hang them, hang them all’ when asked about my thoughts on penalties when i was selected for traffic court jury duty. i was disappointed to be sent home that day and i’ve not got a jury summons again
“As a Jedi, my mind reading powers will obviously come in handy during the trial,” also works quite well.
LMAO
Seth FTW
You have to be dressed up like Princess Leia for this to be effective
DingDingDing! We have a winner! (I can’t for the life of me remember where this was from, XKCD maybe?)
30 Rock, and it didn’t work!
I thought it did work? Damn, I guess I missed the last half of that ep……… *has a sad nao*
No, because everyone else in the jury pool was just as weird (or weirder).
I was going over basics instead of specifics but you are correct sir.
lol, this is funny to see on a Liberal forum. I will point to the thousands of people waving the same flags at Obama rallies. And to the i beleive it was 7,000 such flags that were found in the trash after his inagural adress… I think a Patriot would at least keep the flag.
Wow. Sensitive much? This is a NON-PARTISAN LOL. The fact that you had to make it partisan speaks volumes about your character.
Sure it is. It just so happens to be on a Partisan site and the picture just happens to be of a Tea Party. Sure, I bet Keith Olbermann is non-partisan too.
What exactly dose that say about my character.
How do you know it’s a tea party? So what if it is, it is making generic point about flag waving and not pointing any fingers at any particular group. And why do you think this is a partisan site? Because it doesn’t cater to your particular biases?
What it says about your character is that you are a whiny child just looking for something to be offended by. It says that, even though you are in no way an oppressed minority, you enjoy feeling like one, and want everyone to know how put-upon you are.
passes seth a cookie
oh yes, cause if I were a minority I would have the right to complain about everything. Oppressed minorites need to get over the fact that a fraction of a percent of the country just MIGHT be racist against them and move on. Thats my rant for the day.
And yes, I think a cite whose symbol is also the symbol of the Democratic Party might just be a bit partisan. Also just about every LOL they do about concervatives in negative (infact I havn’t seen any positive ones). That seems just a TAD bit biased to me.
And yes, I think a cite whose symbol is also the symbol of the Democratic Party might just be a bit partisan.
Dude?…that’s a donkey head at the left end and an elephant head at the right end. Not just a donkey. Jeez.
I’ve had to explain the Donkephant to people before. It seemed pretty obvious that’s what it was the first time I looked at it, but I guess some people only see what they want to. Also, it seems that V Gard is implying that liberals aren’t patriotic, which pisses me off.
Of course not. Your classic sycophantic liberal is only patriotic when their guy is in charge. (And then, even only after he starts wearing his flag pin again to pick up those hicks in Pennsylvania.)
If I have to hear “I can finally be proud of my country” one more time on the train, someone’s getting punched in the taint.
Are they broadcasting Michelle’s speech over the loudspeakers now? All the time?
See, this is where you actually have to talk to people. PK doesn’t count.
You didn’t answer my question.
Sure I did. What do you want? SSNs? Notarized affidavits?
Nah, I’m sure you don’t have them anyway.
Like you said, you’re going to refuse to listen to me anyway, so it doesn’t matter. Again, cowardice, and intellectual dishonest. Exactly what I’ve come to expect from you.
I’m either an appeaser and wishy-washy, or I’m close-minded and wont’ change my opinion for anything. You can’t have it both ways.
I can’t believe I’m jumping into this, but I think Dhoti is saying it’s something he’s actually heard people say in real life (apparently rather a lot, lol!). Which I can believe as I’ve heard similar. I’ve managed to limit my reaction to eyerolling, though, rather than punching anyone.
What a load of crap. And the conservatives are super patriotic now that they’re not in charge, aren’t they? How patriotic is Limbaugh hoping our President fails? It’s ridiculously hypocritical to suggest that conservatives are so much more patriotic than liberals. Honestly, Dhoti, do you EVER think before speaking/typing?
More than you, evidently.
For the last eight years, dissent was patriotic and the sign of a healthy Republic. Surely you would have had no qualms about hoping that No Child Left Behind crashed and burned, or that Social Security privatization fell on its face. So, in other words, hoping that President Bush failed was part of that patriotic dissent.
But now, dissent is not to be tolerated, and patriotism is again going out of fashion except to demonize the opponents of the Administration. I don’t expect you to be willing to grasp the hypocrisy of that, but there it is.
1. I voted for that jackass first time around, and was supportive of him as long as I could tolerate.
2. I remember a large number of people who felt questioning Bush was unpatriotic, especially right after 9/11.
3. I didn’t want Bush to FAIL. If he failed, that means the country failed. It would’ve made a difference if his ideas didn’t suck.
To be fair, no one wants Obama the man to fail. But to a Conservative, his policies are as destructive as using a hacksaw during plastic surgery. So saying that you want Obama to fail is saying that you want his policies to fail. There were a lot of people on the left saying they wanted Bush to fail all during his presidency, most notably James Carville the morning of 9-11. They didn’t qualify that statement either. They just wanted him to fail. It’s a normal feeling from “the other side”, whatever that side may be, especially when the policies are so wildly different from side to side.
Are you SURE that no one wants Obama the man to fail? I believe that you don’t want him to fail, but I wouldn’t give the likes of Dhoti the benefit of the doubt. The question is, if his policies fail, does the country succeed? Or does a lack of conservative presence in the government during said failure just mean there will be a black hole in the country’s future following said failure? I’m not sure where the logic of that argument leads to. Seriously. Not being a smart ass.
I don’t know what the consequences of the failure would be, other than to look at the past when liberal and conservative policies under other presidents have failed. There isn’t a void there, something else simply steps up to take its place. Someone like Dhoti seems to take the whole thing personally.
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The question of the country failing if his policies fail is a subjective thing. Bush’s policies failed, and the country, while not as good as it could be, is still rocking along and will recover. For a conservative, Obama’s policies are structured in order to take a situation that is bad and use it to his advantage to wrest more control from the states and the individuals. This is hugely bad for those of us on the right, as we’d rather the government leave us the hell alone. That goes for Republicans and Democrats alike who want to take control simply to stay in office and “run the country”. Run it into the ground as far as I’m concerned.
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If you’re referring to Rush Limbaugh’s comments about Obama failing, and saying that he wants the man to fail vs the policies, I’d suggest a perusal of either his site or his show. He’s been very clear that he’s talking about Obama failing in the same way that prominent Democrats wanted Bush to fail through the 8 years he was in office. He’s explained numerous times that it’s the policies, not the man.
I think I had another point somewhere, but I lost it along the way. Specifically, is it patriotic of Rush to hope for Obama to fail? Because I was originally calling Dhoti hypocritical for suggesting that only liberals think they’re patriotic for dissent. Which dissent isn’t very patriotic, I wouldn’t think. It’s very late, and I’m not thinking as clearly as I’d like, but wouldn’t dissent and patriotism be at almost opposite ends of the spectrum?
@eric-in-stl — re your question “wouldn’t dissent and patriotism be at almost opposite ends of the spectrum?”
i think if you go back and read some of the founding fathers’ thoughts on patriotism and dissent, you might find that speaking out against the government is a patriotic thing to do when the policies are not in the best interest of the populace. i’m thinking it was a peice by paine, but it could have been any one of them. but it’s part of why the right to bear arms is one of the articles in the bill of rights. not to imply that we are to rebel against the government, but that if the government becomes something other than which it was intended, we have the right and obligation to set it back on course again as was intended by the founders.
I feel your pain. That is EXACTLY how I felt after Bush was elected. I know I’m a patriot, I don’t need someone telling me I’m not patriotic just because I vehemently disagreed with the way things were going.
I love America, I love the principles our country is founded on, I love the beauty of our wilderness, and our cities. I’ve been all over this country, and every where I have been, people have been nice to me. Maybe that’s because I’m a white male, and off the Internet I’m pretty humble and easy going, but whatever. I call it like I see it, people in America are kind and helpful if you don’t act like a jerk to them. Americans are generally honest and fair, in my experience.
So, do you see what I mean when I say, “I love my country,” and “I’m a patriot,” and why it hurt to have that questioned? It’s basically the same for you, now. You have the same feelings, you may disagree just as vehemently, and you feel like your love of your country is being questioned because you don’t agree with the way things are going. And it hurts just the same.
Maybe we should just agree not to question each others patriotism.
That would be *awesome*. Too bad it’s too sensible to make it past the Beltway.
Screw the beltway. If we can do it in a public forum, and enforce it, we’re doing pretty good. You want to be friends with the regulars here (including eddie and froo, who you’d find you have a heck of a lot in common with if you just let down your defenses), you just try to live up to that.
You know why we keep talking here on PK? Because we do love our country. This is patriotism. Disagreement is patriotic. The trolls don’t get that, and that’s why they will never be ‘PK regulars,’ no matter how long they keep posting here. If we can disagree, but still agree that we love our country and want to make it better, then we’ve done our founding fathers proud.
*sniff* *sniff* *hand over heart*
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This is why I love you, Seth. You manage to put what I’m thinking into a more succinct form that lasers over to the point with accuracy that would make Robin Hood cry.
You had a good point, but you couldn’t resist slipping some condescending fake magnanimity in there, could you?
And thus you point out your own problem. Any gesture of kindness or anything above the level of bile and you claim it is false. You purposely stack the argument that way so you can claim we are a pack of bastards and you are victimized or we are liars so you can feel superior.
You simply can’t let it just be a kind gesture or a statement of good faith.
Even this statement won’t get through to you, it will just be waved off as a “you called it” scenario in your head. It is how you escape ever having to apologize for your actions or ever being responsible for your comments.
Dwn, remember that old joke about eating a bite of celery just before a every bite of cake, so that when the cake gets to your stomach, the celery says “it’s okay, he’s with me”? Kind of the same thing here.
A kind word offered in one breath doesn’t cancel out the condescension offered in the next. It’s a lame “love, 52%” tactic, and if you’re trying to keep this place civil, quite frankly, it’s beneath you. If we’re going to get into the amateur psychoanalysis, consider how you feel superior by offering up a few token nuggets while sucker-punching with the other hand.
Speck in my eye, plank in your own, and all that.
Actually, I am being honest, not diplomatic. I honestly don’t care if you if want to toss hypocrisy at me, etc etc.
I am simply calling it as it has been shown to me. I thanked you for correcting me a while back and you spat it right back at me. Seth is being diplomatic here and you are doing the same. And everytime in between where somebody tries to seriously be diplomatic with you, you smack it aside.
And if you feel sucker punched because I am calling you on your shit, that is your problem. I am just sick of watching your self victimized angst over and over.
So plank in my eye, stick in your @ss, whatever. I have nothing to feel superior about, no more or less than you do. We are both just guys blathering on a damn lolsite because we have time between actual work.
That’s a nice broad brush you have there, are you finger painting today, or just dumping a bucket on canvas?
Well, you could always go back up and read…
Read how you lump all liberals together? How many liberals do you actually know and talk to, without mentally waiting for them to shut up so you can impose your viewpoint? Your entire defense seems to be summed up by, “well you guys did it too!” Aside from the fact that I’ve heard better excuses from a third grader, you haven’t met every single liberal in this country and even if you have, who are you to judge their patriotism or lack thereof. You’re an internet bully who thinks dropping steaming piles of vitriol somehow makes you relevant and important. The only reason anyone bothers to argue with you is because most people are here because they love debating and a few might hold out hope that buried deep within your xenophobic husk there might be an actual human being.
pwned
I’ll repeat myself — go back up and *read*, where “reading” is not defined as “skimming briefly and strawmanning in the rest”.
Can’t be a tea party. I don’t see anyone rubbing their scrotum in someone else’s face.
Um … not that kind of tea party.
bull crap!
“oh yes, cause if I were a minority I would have the right to complain about everything. Oppressed minorites need to get over the fact that a fraction of a percent of the country just MIGHT be racist against them and move on.”
so are you going to move on because i think you’re a loud-mouthed know-nothing blight of a human?
.
.
.
.
.
didn’t think so
one of the responsibilites of the government is to protect the rights of the few against the wishes of the many, or in this case loud-mouthed know-nothings who whine about having to cooperate, share, and work for the common good of our country even. all because they can’t play by their antiquidated, xenophobic, mysogynistic rules. your guy lost, so suck it up, be a man and not a sniveling, spoiled 3 yr old.
typical. You can’t really make up a compelling argument, so you just call me a bunch of large words that allow you to ignore me and make yourself feel inteligent. If I had a nickle…
if you weren’t spouting blather, you wouldn’t use the old “if i had a nickle…”
and i’m sorry if large words are beyond your kin, try a dictionary sometime
not calling you a bunch of large words, just describing how you come across to people, so if the description hits too close to home, tone down the vitrol.
i don’t have to do anything to “make myself feel intelligent”, i am smart (as noted by being able to spell intelligent correctly), and i’m also brain damaged
and lastly, there is nothing to argue over, especially since there is a difference between argue and debate, but evidenally the nuances of that concept have escaped you. not only that, but you were ranting (your own description) so there is nothing to debate, discuss or even argue.
but since you responded to my post, why didn’t you answer my question?
are you going to move on like you demand others do?
LOL! See, you just proved my point, you are jealous of minorities, and you wish you had the ‘right to complain about everything.’ I’ll let you in on a little secret, you DO have that right! However, you do NOT have a right to be taken seriously. Yes, everyone is laughing at you when you whine about how hard you have it, how oppressed you are, and how ‘the man’ is taking away what’s yours. Laughing. Our. Butts. Off.
As for the logo, are you blind? As for the LOLS, well, the Republicans are a marginalized regional party of right wing christian loonies. The citizens of the USA no longer find your whiny rhetoric compelling. Just because nobody in the US supports your party any more does not make this site biased. I suppose the US is ‘biased’ because we voted for Obama? LOL, yes, I suppose you are right. This site, like this country, is biased against Republicans. I wonder how that happened?
Reality has a well known liberal bias!
cite!
…jk?
*tries to duck under a table, clonks forehead againts it instead and gets knock out*
*grabs an icecube and a dishtowel, wraps icecube and applies same to wallFly’s forehead*
*comes up and puts wallFly’s hand in warm water* hehehehehehe
*fills wallFlys other hand with shaving cream and looks for the feather with which to tickle the nose*
Oh Seth, I am now deeply cut! The only place I feel marginalized (at times) is on PK, and I wouldn’t classify myself as a right-wing Christian loonie. I’m still a Republican, but I may be one of the few that thinks Lincoln is turning in the urn over what the party has become.
I feel marginalized right now, too, Eds. Want to be marginalized with me? I’ve got beer. (Ok, not really, but it’s not like I could get it to you anyway!)
I’ll join you and hoist a beer to being marginalized! Besides, not being unpatriotic or anything, we have much better beer down here..
Can I be marginalized too? I keep getting kicked by a guy who thinks he is a Conservative just because he and his fatty girlfriend like to hit people upside the head with their Bibles, and then complain when they are called mean.
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And can I decline the beer in favor of cookies? Give me 5 months, I’ll drink you under the table!
Absolutely, have a cookie and join me in my fully justified margin.
*slips froo a timtam*
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You’re always welcome into the League of the Marginalized!
Should I be scared to ask what a timtam is?
Wait, you guys have beer? I wanna be marginalized too!
Alright! It’s a party!
got room for a dirty-minded old broad at that party? i’m feeling marginalized by all you young kids on pk
Yeah, I don’t think two dirty-minded old broads at the party is too many; welcome to the margin party!
I tend to think Lincoln’s ghost has been raging ever since the GOP embraced the Dixiecrats in ’64.
(Did you see the bit in the prime time news conference where that NYTimes guy asked O what had surprised, troubled, enchanted and humbled him most in the first hundred days? Surprised: Lincoln’s ghost really does still haunt the White House. Troubled: He’s less friendly to black folks than Obama had imagined he’d be. Enchanted: He glows like the full moon. Humbled: Mofo’s hung like a horse.)
Unfortunately not all shows on TV there make it down this way. We get Ellen though!
Thought you might have bothered to watch it on the web; the video was available at several sites.
Slan, I would, but Australian ISP’s limit your monthly downloads and since I’m close to my limit until the 10th, I’ll have to wait. But never fear, I’ve got it in my to-do list once my limit gets reset.
You are a true conservative at heart, not primarily a ‘republican,’ a ‘neo-con’ or anything else. I have no problem with conservatives. If your agenda is “Smaller Federal government, states rights, and fiscal prudence,” I can’t really argue with that.
Plus, you know me. I like to troll sometimes. It’s not aimed at you
Worry not, this Moderate advised his girl to send you the recipe you asked for. Hopefully it has already arrived in your inbox.
@Seth: I know, but I still had to reply since non-Republicans tend to lump us all under one umbrella. And you know me as well, I wasn’t really insulted.
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@DWN: Yes, it did and can’t wait to give it a go.
Woot, and all is well.
“Lincoln is turning in the urn over what the party has become.” Eddie I am sorry to point out to you that Lincoln won two elections but only ran as a Republican the first time. He was a great and brilliant man and only made that mistake once.
Jesus Christ, V Gard. You expect the “oppressed” them to just get over their oppression? Do you even know what that word means?
Also, republicans aren’t funny, because people who are inherently and unintentionally hilarious usually don’t make jokes.
And you might want to get your eyesight checked. The logo isn’t a donkey, dumbass.
Sure. How many people do you know are still racist against the Irish? What about the Italians? Chinese? What about Jews or Germans? No the only minority that still makes a huge deal about getting mistreated is the Blacks. Maybe if they just shut their mouths and suffered in silence then in a few years nobody would care what color they were. I am not justifying their treatment, but forcing people to treat them nicely will only cause more and more hatred. All the groups I listed sufferd for their differneces, but nowadays nobody even notices. Its the Hispanics turn now, maybe they will learn from the Blacks mistakes.
Dude, the older folk in the Boston area are still upset about the old “No Irish Need Apply” signs that were hung next to the ‘help wanted’. And the Italians here are thrilled that an Italian American finally won major office…
And sorry to say, my mother is still somewhat prejudiced against the Germans. Memories of Hitler sympathizers in her NJ neighborhood, growing up.
Because “shut up and suffer in silence” has worked SO well historically. People change only when it becomes more painful to remain as they are, and often that means being forced to recognize that what they are doing is wrong.
When black households have the lowest median income, when black teenagers are nearly twice as likely to drop out of high school as white teenagers, when black people are five times as likely as white people to be in jail, it’s clear that there still exists a disparity between the life experiences of black people (and probably many other minorities) and the life experiences of white people.
Now, I don’t know for sure that standing against mistreatment is going to fix anything, but I do know that if black people “shut their mouths and suffered in silence,” (which, BTW, sounds a lot like “know your place”), their lot would not improve and might grow worse.
LOL NOBODY? Last I checked Obama won by 53% to 47% So aparently 141,000,000 people= nobody? I think you watch to mush MSNBC.
Frankly, I don’t care if you think we’re dead and gone. Just wait a few years, and you’ll see just how many of us there are.
There will be even fewer of you in a few years. It’s going to be at least forty years before you nuts get power again, just watch.
you are forgetting that those “marginalized regional party of right wing christian loonies” are also citizens of the USA
A patriot would chuck the flag in a recycling bin, so that something useful could be made out of it.
anti-American much? Go live in France where people actually LIKE what you ahve to say.
I… Can’t top this.
I’ll top it. V Gard, your statement just proves you are the kind of “patriot” this poster is mocking. First of all, waving around some plastic flag doesn’t prove anything. It proves you wasted valuable resources so that you could be a dick. And second, America was built on freedom of speech. Someone might disagree with you, but you could voice your opinion freely.
In conclusion…. you’re a douche bag.
My free speach rights allow me to point out that I think he is an idiot, just as they alow you to call me a douche beg. He can say what he wants, and I can say he is wrong.
Are you insinuating that anyone who waves a plastic flag is a dick? I think that a large majority of people from both parties would find offense at that.
I read that as “anyone who waves a plastic dick.” Now I have Diet Coke on my desk. Need a break…
Now I have Diet Pepsi on MY desk. Thanks, diss. LOL
Your free speech also allows you to misspell speech. You, of course, have the right to tell someone they should move to France. It’s just a statement at odds with American ideals of free speech. It’s also racist–are you saying all French hate Americans and destroy our flags?
And no, not EVERYONE who waves a plastic flag is a dick. But if someone thinks that doing so is patriotic, he/she is probably a dick.
Especially if they chuck it afterwards.
(Without recycling is supposed to be implied)
Ummmm actually yeah, the French have burned American flags on a number of occasions. You apparently have never been to South France. As to my spelling, I really don’t care, i reserve proper spelling for term papers, not forums.
So because a few French people have burned American flags, they are all racist and America-haters? Are you then a member of the KKK, since there are quite a few of those in America, and they do stupid things too?
that was just so mature and constructive. i bet when you were a kid, if you didn’t get to win, you’d take your ball and bat and run home all butt hurt.
Spell much?
Are you saying you keep every single cheap flag that you’ve ever been handed in your life? I don’t know about you, but I was an Army Brat and both of my brothers (to say nothing of uncles, grandparents, etc.) served in the military too. I only mention this because I have been to so many military functions that if I kept the cheap flag I was given at every one they wouldn’t fit in my rather large closet. What the hell are you supposed to do with them? Czernobog’s point about recycling is a wonderful solution.
Wanna see my footlocker dedicated to cheap flags? You would be surprised how full that thing is!
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Seriously though, I would agree with you. Since I don’t consider the cheap foreign-made flags official, recycling is the only way to go.
You have to. If you don’t put EVERY SINGLE object you own with any sort of American flag emblem on it in a glass display case with circling lights next to your limited time offer Reagan coins with “Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue,” playing over and over on repeat, you are a commie and a Frenchie.
*now cleaning tea off of her screen*
LOL!
You speak the truth V Gard, unfortunately.
That story has been thoroughly debunked – the flags were rolled neatly and wrapped in plastic bags, not trashed.
And you must be awfully, awfully butthurt to STILL be bringing up a tired old canard from the conventions before the last election your lot lost.
Why? people bring up Watergate all the time. And that was decades ago. So what’s your point? So when it’s some Republican it’s ok to bring up an old election “canard” like that, but when it’s a Democrat it’s taboo? You should work for Keith Olbermann.
I can not believe you just compared Watergate to flags being tossed. Have you recently received a major head wound?
Looks like V Gard’s dresser is missing a sock.
Let’s pretend your statement was true. We know it isn’t, but lets pretend.
Estimates of attendance range from 800,000 to 3,000,000. Let’s split the difference and call it 1,900,000 people. Assume not everyone carried a flag. I will use the WAG theory and call it 50% of attendees carried a flag, giving us 850,000 portable flags and uncounted flags placed as decorations. Now, 7000 flags is .8% of the 850,000 flags, suggesting that 99.2% of all flags were retained by good, patriotic liberals.
I’m sorry, what was your point, again?
The time the poster is speaking of was more than 200 years ago. So to answer the question: No living person remembers that time.
Ah, nostalgia… again…
Well, to be fair, most of the nostalgia is on roflrazzi and that other site I never ever visit… But still…
I wonder what wonderful golden time the statue men dreamed of when they were alive…
They would dream of times of younger days when their worries were fresh air and what mischief they could get into. They would dream of fair lady’s hand in their courting days and the kisses stolen. They would dream of the days where they were not heroes or leaders and wish for the freedom to just enjoy a breeze and a good drink.
It is the golden time of any man or woman to dream of days where their worries were few, love was fresh and vibrant, bellies were full, and no blood sullied the ground.
That’s awfy poetic….
*Almost regrets being pissed off with nostalgia-ers*
Do go on.
The moment has left me as I throwdown about gay marriage on roflrazzi.
I saw some of that but didn’t read all of it… (Roflrazzi comments pages can be really stupid and tedious)
Not that you were stupid or tedious…
*digs hole deeper*
No worries, I was called effervescently charming so I will ride that high instead of allowing myself to fall into the sinkhole of being stupid and tedious.
I often worry that the stone cannot contain all the reverance given to said figures. The images wrought with stones and metals with hope to capture a moment, an essence of a person whose ideas have shaped generations.
Could such material house anima of their likeness, I fear they might weep at all that has been thought of them, expected of them, and firmly believed of them. Such weeping frames would indeed ponder upon the old times, the golden times, the free times of their visage’s past life.
The steps gayly taken, the kisses stolen, the roads wandered, and the clean air breathed all would haunt them like delightful spectres in their cold formed frames. For while it is the lot of a leader to lead, the burden of such weighs heavier than all the metals used, all the stones used to strike their likeness.
If such wrought images could feel for but a fleeting minute and remember what they are and were, I think a tear might form, wishing for those golden days, those lazy days, those before leadership to them was passed.
(Just for you AC, enjoy)
Just now realizing how shitty my timing really is… She probably won’t see this at all given her time zone nor would she have a reason to check on it.
Timing fail on me.
I appreciated it, however. So thanks!
Woot, then it was worth it. I was a bit brain drained when I put it together as the day has been deathly slow at work. Glad to be of service.
i thought it was nifty too. touching and poetic, and not a bit of smut either. impressive
Deep down, I am just a big sap. Honest!
Sidenote: Lynn might finish my crocheted Cthulhu today! XD
YAY!!!!! When I saw that I knew she had to have it
Update: Little Cthulhu is visiting my work desk today and thus his steely gaze will keep me in line while I babble like a fool online as usual.
Absolutely….
I’m a bit late in seeing it but I did enjoy it… And it was very good…
Excellent, I figured a sweet and sincere request required a sincere and sweet response. I am glad you enjoyed.
Let us please stop pretending there’s virtue in patriotism.
Oh there is virtue, you just have to actually embrace the ideal instead of the foolish reality. Patriotism is loving the land and those within the land because they are your siblings and neighbors.
Unfortunately, a lot of people find it reason to hate those that aren’t their blood or neighbor instead of finding peaceful ways to get more friends.
It is the same with religion. Religion is an ideal that is supposed to unite but instead is a razor upon quivering flesh, ready to separate skin and let blood spill.
And you have to distinguish patriotism from nationalism/jingoism, too; I get the sense Erica’s bundling it all together.
*Reads from a book she got for Christmas*
“I think that nationalism can be dangerously akin to racism, and to be racist is to defy the common humanity of all mankind.”
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” – Attributed to Samuel Johnson
Johnson also said:
“A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation. This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion.” From “The Works of Samuel Johnson,” published by Pafraets & Company, Troy, New York, 1913; volume 14, pages 81-93.
I’ve never read that before.
“who ought not to judge what they cannot understand”
That actually turned my stomach. Please tell me I’m just taking it out of context… an informed and politicised population is the foundaton of accountable government. Maintining it is any responsible government’s first duty.
Ya, that does invite unsettling ideas.
It surprises you that Johnson could be somewhat…elitist?
I have no idea which johnson you might mean (over here the famous one was responsible for the dictionary). I read you as quoting positively, and was shocked to think you might approve of those ideas. Clearly my mistake *phew*.
Worry not, I put pretty words on this page somewhere to ease your mind by AC’s request.
*pats on back* There, there. Normalize the blood pressure. Hoshit! That lady has a tomato!
Just kidding, calm down. Relax.
Absolutely, that’s why a lot of this proud-to-be-Scottish-and-trapping-tourists stuff annoys me. You can be unashamed of who you are and what made you that way. But I think it was best put by another poster (ages ago) that it’s kind of stupid to be proud of your race when you didn’t really contribute to being born into it.
As for your last paragraph, I think you’ve been very accurate about the difference between religion and faith…
Ah, now you’re about to set off one of my rants, AC…
*deep breath*
I’m happy to be an American…I feel damn lucky, I pay my taxes, I vote, if it came right down to it I’d fight for my country (if we were in a situation where we needed middle-aged women with no combat experience fighting!) but PROUD? I didn’t DO anything to be an American, it’s an accident of birth. When somebody’s worked and saved and finally gotten their work visa, and come over here, and studied and worked hard and passed the citizenship test, then THEY get to be proud to be an American. You can be proud to be an American soldier, fine. Proud to be a college graduate, fine. Proud to be a parent? Go for it. But don’t bray about how proud you are of something YOU didn’t do.
Same goes for anything else you are born to; black pride, gay pride, women’s pride, etc. If you didn’t make some type of effort, then you haven’t really anything to be PROUD of, do you?
*sigh* [end rant]
Oddly enough, I think we championed this subject a while back, which is what AC might be recalling. Though I do recall you being more verbose about it than I.
*hugs*
Lol, yes, I thought I remembered we agreed on this topic!
“Same goes for anything else you are born to; black pride, gay pride, women’s pride”
I believe a correction is in order here. The “Pride” movements associated with those groups arose because, at the time, people belonging to those groups were disrespected, discriminated against, treated unequally under the law, and generally in constant physical danger just for being members of those groups. The idea of being proud, even though you were gay, or black, or a woman, was very radical not very long ago.
Of course, I’m applying a very broad brush to these issues. For instance, women had a path to respectability through being a “good mother”. Broadly speaking, however, I stand by my statement.
PM, I’m not unaware of the origin of pride movements; I just think they were poorly named. I’m not unsympathetic to the emotion behind it, just …linguistically offended by what I see as an overly broad application of the word.
Ah, I didn’t see this. I was sort of inefficiently getting to this down below. Apologies!
No problem…my only issue is that I can’t come up with a better term.
Well, all I’ll say about black pride, gay pride, women’s pride, etc. is that if you have suffered discrimination and racism that is designed to make you feel ashamed of that same accident of birth you should be able to say, enough already, I’m proud of the person I am and I won’t let you belittle that. The best way I can relate it is this: In my first year of teaching I had this horrible horrible woman for a principal. Her way of making herself look like she was a tough no nonsense person was to nitpick, degrade, harass, and generally make you feel as if you could do nothing right. I went all through college and my student teaching getting nothing but great reviews from anyone who’d ever seen me teach, but at 23 I was still young enough that if all you hear is negative, negative, negative you start to really believe it and it took a really long time to regain my confidence, and it’s something I still struggle with. I know I wasn’t born a teacher, but I feel that if you are constantly degraded because of your sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, you deserve to stand up and say, I will not let you make me feel less, and the best way to do that sometimes is by the pride movement.
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Now, all that being said I don’t disagree with what you said about patriotism, unless you’ve represented America while doing something great all you’re really being proud of is the accident that let you be born here instead of in some third world hell hole. Sort of a ‘there but for the grace of god go thee’ kind of thing.
For all that one can argue about faith, religion, and the horrors of people in groups, I never understood how “Love thy Neighbor,” “Judge not lest ye be judged,” and a number of other tolerant words could be so unclear to people.
Which is why I do have faith but not religion. Faith is between me and whatever is out there. Religion is a social gathering.
This makes me wonder what the poster thinks is required to be a true patriot.
I think our soldiers know what it takes. I would expect that each and every one of them remembers.
Wait, how old are our soldiers?!?
Trust me, it’s not just those who are serving now, but those in the past as well. I will always consider myself a soldier even though I no longer serve.
Remember when LOLs were actually amusing?
omg someone let out the basilisk!!1!!311
fortunately, it appears that cheaply made flags are immune to its deadly gaze! hurry, everyone, our last hope is to cover ourselves in the glory of cheap plastic flags!
And be sure to attach them to your car in the approved way..
The Founding Fathers were a bunch of men in wigs, lace ruffles, stockings and heeled shoes. Represent!
patriotism is stupid
just leads to racism – who is allowed to be an American and who isn’t
be proud to be a human being, it’s just a gov’t y’all!
I’m curious why you think patriotism leads to racism? Being a patriot isn’t about exclusion..
Often extreme nationalism leads to racism, “my country is the best, everyone else sucks!” But I disagree with Ash that patriotism leads to racism. I do think that often patriotism shows up as stupid because too often people proclaim themselves patriotic when they’re just blindly following the leader and consider those who don’t to be terrorists.
But you have to agree that there’s a huge difference between nationalism and patriotism. A true patriot wants to see the betterment of the country, even if it is in defiance of the government. I would agree though that there are those who call themselves patriotic but play follow the leader (this is often referred to as blind patriotism).
Nationalism and patriotism can be used to describe the same thing, but nationalism generally has a more negative connotation. But that’s just semantics–I agree with what you say.
The difference is whether a person places value and personal attachment to the ideal nature of the thing or the reality of it, and whether or not they can tell when the two diverge.
There seems to be a lot of people in the USA who believe that America is the greatest country on the planet, just by definition. They will accept no criticism, no suggestion that the country isn’t meeting its ideals. The USA was founded on wonderful ideals, but that doesn’t mean we’re sticking to them these days.
Patriotism centers on the ideals of a country, and on making that country meet those ideals. Nationalism is groupism, us versus them, the in-group is good and safe simply because they’re close, or identify using the same label, and the out-group is wrong and bad and dangerous because they’re different in some way, use a different name to describe themselves.
I’d say we see a lot of the second kind of behavior between so-called “liberals” and “conservatives”, or “Democrats” and “Republicans”, in the USA. They make up horror stories about each other, and don’t really try to work together, or have honest discussions. Each side simply believes that the other side is evil, and wants to take over the country for no reason.
The first time I ever felt patriotic was when I found myself in a foreign land (somewhere in the Middle East).
I had been there about 6 months, was feeling like the lowest thing on earth (FYI, that’s how most women feel in the Middle East) after months of listening to constant, hate-filled, venomous comments about America and Americans. But when I spotted the American embassy, saw the long line of people waiting outside, desperate for their shot at being Americans, when I saw that beautiful star-spangled banner flapping in the breeze, when those wonderful Americans of every hue, ethnicity and religion welcomed me into the embassy like a long lost friend, THAT’S when I knew what true patriotism feels like.
Go. See the rest of the world. Then come back and tell me why you’re ashamed to be an American.
That’s a beautiful story! (And anybody who can’t afford to see the rest of the world? Sit in on a citizenship class or talk to people being sworn in as American citizens.)
Man, I hate like heck to sound like I’m missing your (very touching) point.
Still, the first thing that went through my mind while reading it was, “Hmm, didn’t the 9/11 hijackers all enter the USA legally, mostly on student visas? I wonder how many of the people Sisyphusredux was watching were actually terrorists trying to get in and hurt us?”
Well, no. I lived with Arabs for more than 20 years-many of them Islamic fundamentalists. My only son, in point of fact, is an Islamic fundamentalist-my girls are irreligious. So I know whereof I speak.
Most Islamic fundamentalists have little or no interest in flying airplanes into buildings and/or killing innocent civilians. Killing innocent civilians is, in truth, absolutely haram (forbidden) by Islam for civilians who are “people of the book” (Christians and Jews, that is.) But let’s not split hairs.
I acquired my patriotism through knowledge and experience. It is NOT blind. It is NOT unthinking. I am very proud of my country and almost everything it stands for.
I do not understand those who do not love their country-in my mind it’s much akin to hating your mother. There are rare cases where one would be fully justified in hating one’s mother, but one never has an excuse for disrespecting or badmouthing her.
Yall who have a deep, abiding hatred for your own country need to take a long hard look at your points of view.
And grow up.
Hate doesn’t necessarily need to be involved. A person can be fully aware of the privileges and trials involved in being a citizen of a particular country without believing that country is full stop better than any other country.
Remember when Pundit Kitchen was funny?
Where are these statues and who do they represent? The cut of the jackets are military, aren’t they?
the one on the left is Dale Earnhart Jr., I think the middle is Larry the Cable Guy but I can’t seem to place the other one.. Napoleon maybe?
Owen Wilson?
That can’t be true, I don’t see his “3″ with wings and halo. (Oh and I died laughing btw, you rock!)
in all seriousness, i was just checking the site and realized in horror that these statues are located in the center of my hometown, morristown, nj. the picture was probably taken from the absolutely ridiculous tea party being held in town recently. urgh.
-hangs head in shame-
*hugs*
it’s ok. it’ll be forgotten about in a few months and everyone will deny having been to it. they’re the ones who aught to be ashamed for being so gullible and manipulatable.
Why? Because we feel the bailouts didn’t properly represent us, and are concerned about the devalued dollar, rising cost of living, and high taxes?
Wow…how shameful.
Lemme guess. You think the bailouts are necessary? You and Bush.
Never mind – hubby found it. That’s Washington, Hamilton, and Lafayette.
Okay, two out of three US Patriots ain’t bad.
lafayette is an american patriot too… he was wounded at the battle of brandywine, fought at yorktown and rhode island… in short, he did quite a bit for a country that he was not even a citizen of…
Is the creator of this lol advocating the violent overthrow of an oppressive government bent on the hypertaxation of its citizens?
After 9/11 all American flags sold in the US have to be made in the US.
Patriotism – Remember when it wasn’t synonymous with evil nationalism?
Morristown is not usually like this. >.<
many apologies
What is there to apologize about? The fact that a group of people with an opinion, gathered in a public square and freely expressed their opinion?
Shudders. How evil of them.
just saying, these guys sent people to their deaths to battle against their own country, thats not patriotism… that’s new revolutionism… exact opposites…
This was taken on the Morristown Green in Morristown, NJ.