Comments on: DIPLOMACY

By: Essex Wedding Photographer

Essex Wedding Photographer — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:43:40 +0000

By: Seth

Seth — Wed, 20 May 2009 15:34:22 +0000

Best scenario at this point is that she was lied to. The CIA said, “We are considering using waterboarding in the future,” NOT “We are using waterboarding now.” That is her story and it hasn’t changed.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Wed, 20 May 2009 05:39:46 +0000

Just for you, Seth, a cartoon
{http://ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=327289874801184}

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 22:38:30 +0000

{http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1898706,00.html?xid=rss-politics-cnn}
Here’s an article from Time Magazine that shows the Catch 22 that Pelosi is in. Best case scenario at this point is that she’s incompetent.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 22:12:08 +0000

{http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/us_world/Pelosi_playing_defense_on_torture.html}
Here is another that doesn’t seem to be slanted.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 22:00:07 +0000

Ok, don’t get upset, i’m still trying to track down something that compares each of the stories to each other, but this is a blog I’ve found that details it from the beginning. It’s a right-slanted blog, for sure, but it does cite its sources. I’m still searching for more.

By: Seth

Seth — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:46:05 +0000

Disagree? You just restated what I was saying, and clearly explained WHY it is that way. I’m not sure it’s a good thing, though. One man’s ‘ethical misstep’ is another man’s genocide.

As for changing her story, did it really change or is that just more lies? Honestly, I don’t know. Any references?

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:13:11 +0000

And I disagree with the “pay it backward” scheme you’re mentioning. If you open up executive privilege for the previous president, you’re also opening it up for yourself. As president, there are certain things that HAVE to be done, and sometimes those things aren’t exactly kosher. I defy you to find me one completely clean president in history. Hell, even Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus for the Civil War, and FDR rounded up Asian-Americans and put them in camps “just to be sure”. If you open that can of worms, you subject every president after the last one, including yourself, to being prosecuted for the ethical missteps that sometimes have to be made in order to get a job done.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:07:41 +0000

I have to lean a bit right here and go with Froofrou, this time. Panetta likely being dirty doesn’t change the odd little show that Pelosi is putting on.

If she was innocent, there would be one story. I can accept the idea that her advisors might be yanking her around to make her look bad but the fact is, she does look bad. Her entire handling of the issue reeks of either a cowardice or duplicity we can’t allow as House Speaker.

Disclaimer for the dim: Cowardice in the context I am using is her lack of ability to stick to one story, the one story that technically should be truth. If she is afraid to admit there was a problem, I don’t want her there. I am in no way calling her a coward for not speaking up during the tenure of Bush as she would have been slammed with heavy legal ramifications with an administration that could have done just about anything to her.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:00:00 +0000

Fair enough, we might need a bigger courtroom, but fair enough.

Grab all the idiots involved with the orders as part of 2. Then I want a strawberry and banana smoothie while I watch the circus that will ensue.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:56:39 +0000

The problem with Pelosi’s story is that it’s changed several times. First she didn’t know, then she might have known, then she didn’t know because the Bushes misled her, then she didn’t know because the CIA misled her……..If she had stuck with one story or the truth she might have some plausible deniability in the matter. As of now she’s compromised and needs to go.

By: Seth

Seth — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:51:50 +0000

Nope, look at the actual quote from Panetta. He never said she lied. He merely implied that she lied. When pressed for clarification, a CIA spokesman refused to clarify Panetta’s position, and said his letter would have to speak for itself.

Panetta and the right wing media juggernaut are the liars, making this non story into a distraction from the real issue: torture. Whoever had anything to do with torture deserves punishment. However, Pelosi was lied to, and prohibited by security clearances from disclosing anything in any case or seeking clarification.

Pelosi was lied to and Panetta refuses to lie by claiming she was told the truth. He just IMPLIES that she was told the truth.

This whole thing stinks, but it’s not Pelosi that is the problem, it is Obama and his CIA lapdog Panetta protecting executive privilege. Obama is no different than any president before him, every previous president gets a free pass from the prez after him, kind of a ‘pay it backward’ scheme.

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:49:54 +0000

Personally, I think we should do a fact-finding mission to see who knew what when for the sole purposes of prosecuting everyone who ordered torture, be they Democrat, Republican, Independent, or Other, as the Congress was briefed on this many times before, during, and after it happened with nary a word of protest. If we’re going after the Bushes, we might as well go after all of them.

By: Vicky

Vicky — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:45:30 +0000

Too true! Why must be exersize this diplomacy sooo often? haha

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:44:17 +0000

Alrighty, so order of operations.

1. Can the obvious distraction known as Pelosi for being a criminal liar and fool.

2. Move onto dealing with the real issue of prosecuting those who ordered torture.

3. Having gotten the ass burr of 1 and 2 out of the way, move onto more current issues.

Got it. All in favor?

By: froofrou

froofrou — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:38:17 +0000

Oh, not a wasted pout. I applaud!! And you’re 100% right. I believe Newt said it best, that she’s either incompetent or a liar, and either quality is not fitting a Speaker. She needs to do the graceful thing and step down before it becomes worse.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:35:30 +0000

Damn… Wasted post.

By: the_original_shortright

the_original_shortright — Tue, 19 May 2009 20:33:10 +0000

clan mackay representing here… i attend the semi-local highland games every year. the largest games in the US. the massed bands is probably my favorite part.

By: DeathWyrmNexus

DeathWyrmNexus — Tue, 19 May 2009 16:54:24 +0000

If Waterboarding isn’t torture then Pelosi is just criminally stupid and should be out of there.

If Waterboarding is torture then Pelosi is just criminally stupid and should be out of there, then we go after those who authorized the torture since one lying idiot with no power to stop it doesn’t stop there from being a crime with those that ordered it.

Either way, I advocate tossing the dumbass under the bus. She lied when it was better to say, Yes I knew but had no real power to stop it, etc etc.

Now that we cleared up that Pelosi is criminally stupid and deserves to be ousted for it, can we move on to the fact that waterboarding is torture and needs to be addressed?

By: PortlandMark

PortlandMark — Tue, 19 May 2009 15:58:24 +0000

from Wiki, btw

By: PortlandMark

PortlandMark — Tue, 19 May 2009 15:58:02 +0000

Two inmates in December 2002 were tortured and beaten to death in cells down the hall from her office. “Hung by their arms from the ceiling and beaten so severely that, according to a report by Army investigators later leaked to the Baltimore Sun, their legs would have needed to be amputated had they lived. The Army’s Criminal Investigation command launched an inquiry, but few people outside Afghanistan took notice.”[60] “In August, a former Bagram interrogator told a Knight Ridder journalist that at the time of the two deaths screams and moans could easily be heard from interrogation rooms at Bagram, and that Wood must have been aware of the abuse, as the interrogation rooms were near her office.

By: PortlandMark

PortlandMark — Tue, 19 May 2009 15:56:16 +0000

I’m still waiting for you to answer mine, so I guess we can both sit and be disappointed.

By: AC

AC — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:25:57 +0000

Oh wow, the Rocky Mountains look really beautiful. There’s certainly nothing that impressive here! Google maps always make my eyes go funny but your home looks nice from what I can see… I’m a bairn of the town mentioned in the ordinal post rule: it’s an alright sort of place tho I’m not planning on spending too much of my life here.
That’s pretty cool that you can trace your ancestors. (mine are dead and Scottish and that’s about it) Loads of folk are Scottish: the race’s main hobby seems to be escaping from Scotland and then composing depressing songs/poems about it.
Hey, there’s no shame in being touristy -Scottish industry thrives off you creatures anyway. If you’re ever here remember the macaroni pies and deep fried mars bars and tablet. (not just the haggis lol)
Oh, and who doesn’t love kilts?

By: bad fairie

bad fairie — Tue, 19 May 2009 09:48:28 +0000

knotting to pretend

By: bad fairie

bad fairie — Tue, 19 May 2009 09:39:40 +0000

yank through and through, but i’ve got roots over there.
if i had $$$ i’d be one of those tourists that some people here have ranted over, but on the other hand, i do appreciate a fine single malt
seriously though, i would be one of those sterotypical tourists – looky at this, where’s the men in kilts (and what don’t you wear under them *veg*) ooh, shiney and off i’d go but then i’l like that here when i’m at some place i’ve never been before. but as a saving grace, i always eat the local food at the mom and pop kind of places (no 5 star or mcchains for me)
and i don’t care if i look like an escapee from bedlam – it keeps the freaks away if they think you’re crazier than they are

By: bad fairie

bad fairie — Tue, 19 May 2009 09:27:19 +0000

loved it, but then (brace yourself) i am of scottish descent (clan douglas ) my scots immigrant ancestors were jacobites and found it necessary to move to the colonies (1740) … now that that part is out of the way since i’ve never been to scotland, to me it is exotic and you’d probably feel the same way about where i live. on the other hand, maybe not so much. if you do a google maps search (with satilite on) of sandpoint, idaho and pend o-reille lake in general. and ritzville, wa (zoom out a few times, and this {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountainsv}
this is pretty much where i grew up. the mountains seem to be similar to pics i’ve seen of the highlands. (only much higher altitude but we grow everything bigger out here, lol)
and then there are the bagpipes, and men in kilts! oh yeah, can’t forget those
several years ago i took my mother to a local highland games event (cheesy good fun & men in kilts) anyway, mom got a big kick out it all – most of the women were built like her – short & stocky without being obese. but we could definitally tell who had the viking ancestory and who didn’t (we don’t)

By: Lllll.

Lllll. — Tue, 19 May 2009 08:11:22 +0000

…for a life in the mud…

By: Lllll.

Lllll. — Tue, 19 May 2009 08:08:27 +0000

…and left the home of God behind…

By: Lllll.

Lllll. — Tue, 19 May 2009 08:05:21 +0000

…sero sed serio…we’ve passed from the borderlands…

By: Dhoti

Dhoti — Tue, 19 May 2009 00:23:29 +0000

*crickets*

By: IvanTheMildlyAnnoying

IvanTheMildlyAnnoying — Mon, 18 May 2009 14:04:38 +0000

YOU go take a waterboarding and tell us it’s not torture. Hannity isn’t the ONLY one who’s all talk.

By: IvanTheMildlyAnnoying

IvanTheMildlyAnnoying — Mon, 18 May 2009 14:02:26 +0000

Hannity is the one talking with no action. How can Olbermann write the check before he sees how long Hannity can take the waterboarding? I, for one, would need to see a total before I could write it on my check. Unless you’re crediting Olbermann with clairvoyance?

By: IvanTheMildlyAnnoying

IvanTheMildlyAnnoying — Mon, 18 May 2009 13:57:44 +0000

*pretending to knit*

By: Dhoti

Dhoti — Mon, 18 May 2009 13:39:40 +0000

I’m sure you’ll say this is “missing the point” since it’s not attacking Republicans – but why are EITs a crime and a moral outrage when Republicans do it, but must be covered up and FUDded when a Democrat does it? Can you explain your apparent moral hypocrisy, or will you yet again respond with talking points and boring personal attacks?

By: Dhoti

Dhoti — Mon, 18 May 2009 13:24:22 +0000

Reading comprehension FAIL. Unsurprising, I suppose, that you take the most personally advantageous interpretation- it’s certainly not the first time you’ve played fast and loose with the truth to make a point.

I’m still waiting for you to answer my question.

By: AC

AC — Mon, 18 May 2009 10:20:40 +0000

Furryboots?
Is there an Aberdonian on this page?

By: paws4thot

paws4thot — Mon, 18 May 2009 09:43:24 +0000

A Scot founded the US Navy, and led the last invasion of the British mainland (note mainland; the Germans invading the Channel Islands in WW2 doesn’t count).

Yes, I am from Scotland; furryboots ye fae Bad Fairie?

By: AC

AC — Mon, 18 May 2009 08:38:37 +0000

Llll does this sometimes… I don’t have a clue what goes on in their head…
I find it really funny that you describe Scotland as exotic…
And I’m sitting here with all my big ideas to get out of it ASAP! I suppose I think of America as pretty exotic, too…
Anyway, factoids? Ummm… There are several myths about how Scotland got its flag, the Saltire. The one I knew as a kid is something like… Once upon a time army of Scotland gathered for a battle with the heathen hordes of the Anglo-Saxons.(Read that like “orcs” in myths like these) They were outnumbered (as per usual) and their king knew defeat was inevitable… He prayed to Scotland’s patron saint, Andrew, in desperation. As he raised his eyes to heaven he saw the white clouds against the blue sky form Saint Andrew’s cross… He took this as a sign that God was with them in this fight and had a banner made with the sign on it. Wherever he took this banner it encouraged his soldiers, the battle was won and the Saltire was kept for posterity as Scotland’s flag. *Insert happy ending here*
There, hope that wasn’t too boring…

By: fw

fw — Mon, 18 May 2009 07:15:02 +0000

LG, I’m trying to link here. First time, so if it doesn’t work, you can Wiki SERE training, but I found this interesting link with “enhanced interrogation.” Yikes.

By: fw

fw — Mon, 18 May 2009 07:07:14 +0000

I’m one of the first, but your whole point was so completely off in right field, it could not be ignored.

By: Olberliar

Olberliar — Mon, 18 May 2009 06:44:35 +0000

Olby = No Action, Talk Only

Get the checkbook out and start writing.

BTW: tell us about YOUR experience in the military.

By: SEER/SERE

SEER/SERE — Mon, 18 May 2009 06:24:35 +0000

We all know that nobody here ever makes a typo.

By: Mortland Park

Mortland Park — Mon, 18 May 2009 06:04:03 +0000

“1) If what we did to detainees is not torture”

It’s. Not. Torture. See. Link. For. Real. Torture.

Is that small enough for your “smaller brain” Mr. “Personal Attack?”

“then what did Pelosi do wrong?”

“She’s just lying now.” First four words of my response. How could you miss that? Refers to her claim about not being briefed.

Not necessarily illegal, but “wrong” in the classic sense that lying is wrong.

#2) See answer to question #1.

Sorry if the extra facts confused you.

By: Eric-in-STL

Eric-in-STL — Mon, 18 May 2009 03:57:57 +0000

But, but, that’s not what Fixed News told him! *gasp*

By: PortlandMark

PortlandMark — Mon, 18 May 2009 03:57:35 +0000

Let’s break the question down into smaller pieces so it fits into your smaller brain:

1) If what we did to detainees is not torture, then what did Pelosi do wrong?

2) If it is torture, then isn’t the Bush administration a little more responsible than the leader of the minority party?

Take your time. I fully expect you to miss the point and launch a personal attack again, but I hope to be disappointed for once.

By: PortlandMark

PortlandMark — Mon, 18 May 2009 03:54:40 +0000

Cheez, when you’re not personally abusive, you’re just plain wrong. KSM was waterboarded 183 times; 6100% more than you claim. [link] Check the evidence dude.

I don’t know if your lack of information informs your wrong headed beliefs, or if your wrong headed beliefs prevents you from learning what you really ought to know, but either way, please be quiet and let the adults speak, would you?

By: Eric-in-STL

Eric-in-STL — Mon, 18 May 2009 03:20:46 +0000

*caring to knot*

By: Dhoti

Dhoti — Mon, 18 May 2009 03:09:02 +0000

Waterboarded for years, huh? Like the three times KSM was waterboarded?

Just to be clear here — are we comparing SERE to what *actually* happened in Gitmo, or to your 24-esque wet dreams of what Dick Cheney *might* have been doing there?

By: Dhoti

Dhoti — Mon, 18 May 2009 03:04:57 +0000

Your “question”? Uh, that little steamer is definitely a statement, big guy, regardless of the superfluous question marks you may have thrown in the middle. I’ll assume you’re aware of that, whether you bother to admit it or not.

So, here’s an actual question for you: are you *actually* against torture, or are you just using it as a lame excuse for a partisan witch hunt? And since I know what the answer is, I’ll repeat — you’re a spineless coward for pretending to care about “torture in your name” but not having the guts to follow it wherever it leads.

Was that clear enough for you to follow?

By: bad fairie

bad fairie — Mon, 18 May 2009 02:47:56 +0000

you got it backwards – they get paid to go to camp and be tortured – ‘be all that you can be’ compliments of the us army

but there are survival camps that civilians can pay to go to. i went to one of the early ones – got the boot when i refused to eat bugs. they weren’t even chocolate covered or anything. i don’t care if it would keep me alive or if they taste good or what ever fantasy people use to brainwash themselves – i don’t eat bugs!

anyway, there are special survival camps aimed at the wealthy, and the influencial business people, and politicans from countries where kidnappings and assassinations are common occurances. the idea is to show these people some of the worst that can happen to them and teach them some skills to survive. the ultimate worst case scenario ever