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Be the worst president of the States, invest in war and in destroying other countries and you’ll be okay..
But if you invest in you own country, you’re a communist?
WTF!?
(Barack Obama)
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So true.
Be the worst president of the States
Obama’s got that distinction wrapped up. He’s even worse than Carter was.
invest in war and in destroying other countries
Like trying to destroy Honduras by trying to place a Chavez puppet commie back in power?
George W. Bush is by far the worst president the U.S. has ever had.
The Honduran president was elected by the people in a democratic election. I can see why a fascist coup on behalf of the Honduran financial elites would have more appeal to a wingnut.
Coming from someone called Nailin Palin. You are a puppet of the media my friend.
Maybe he just thinks Palin is hot.
I’d rather nail McCain’s daughter myself, that girl is HAWT.
seconded
Nail, yes.
Date? Dear gods no. You know who her dad is right? :p
maybe if he stopped destroying the middle class, i might have a shred of respect for him.
Not related at all. We’re talking about f*cking Mccain’s daughter here.
Thanks for keeping this on topic Tyler.
first the worst presidents we ever had were carter and nixon
second you stupid liberals he is not investing in the country he is having the government own everything and that is communism
lastly dont blame bush because he had to clean up the mess from clinton and if you have to ask what mess your an idiot
We’re talking about F*cking Mccain’s daughter here! No politics allowed! -Tears hair-
Bush picked up Clinton’s intern’s drycleaning? That was neighborly of him.
Also, word of advice, A.R. — the conservatives on here have a hard enough time, so please try not to make us look stupid. Nest your reply in the appropriate place, use correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation, don’t resort to namecalling, and try to argue reasonably instead of foaming at the mouth. Thanks.
Thank you for saying what I was going to reply at the bottom. The point of Government is to defend our country and make sure that other countries are playing by the rules, not spending the money taken from the wealthy and giving it to poor people and failing companies that should take care of themselves.
I just love how no-one even knows the distinction between socialism, communism and facism
Whut? You mean Adolf Lenin isn’t teh tyrant who speaks for national healthcare and other tools of oppression?
Now I’m confoozled.
Uhm, you do realise that every decent European country has a public heath care system, and no one has a private health care? Okay, now realise not a single European country has a communist regime.
there is a difference between communism and what obama is doing.
obama wants a few government run companies.
communism is having the entire national economy run by the government.
and you know what? bush DID cause the mess.
did clinton waste our tax dollars on a war over oil? did he sit back and pretty much ignore hurricane katrina?
did he get ridiculed for 8 years of crappy politics?
No, I don’t believe he did!
and as I’ve heard, there was a surplus when clinton left office. now look where we are after bush!
Americanrepublican…i like you! spot on in that comment. As James Madison had stated, free and independent states with federal watching out for international treaties, trade, and commerce of the union. Not micromanaging our lives and our states. Obama is not investing in our country…he’s dismantling it and further taking away individual liberties to fend for yourself.
Nixon?!?!?! ftw. go back and actually study some politics. Nixon was one of the best foreign policy presidents we had.
yes, the budget surplus was such a terrible mess that it required illegally invading Iraq to clean it up.
Actually the government owning everything is socialism. the people owning everything collectively is communism.
Oh, Bush cleaned up Clinton’s mess? I guess a budget surplus is a mess… and i guess that wasting it all on a pointless war is cleaning it up…
What a good job he did.
[/sarcasm]
So, invest in the government and you’re a communist? I suppose that you failed to notice that a government represents the country it governs. And that 787 billion dollar bailout he gave to America. And all those bailouts he gave to American buisnesses. And how he made BP agree to pay some 200 million or whatever for the oil spill.
Yes, Obama is investing in the government. He is leaving America to deal with its own problems.
the problem with you republicans is that you think everything that Obama does is bad. And that simply is not true.
I’d f*ck her.
Honestly, I don’t see many diffferences among communism, socialism and fascism. They are all statist, totalitarian ideologies that have as their aim the total suppression of the individual at the altar of collectivism.
Then again, I have this subversive habit of thinking for myself, so maybe it’s just me.
No, they are not.
But it is why in the U.S. the healthcare system is completely lacking, and a lot of people live in poverty (wile the U.S. are not a third world country, are they?).
Do your background reading on wikipedia, for instance.
Firstly, Yvette, you need to learn how to proof-read. But more importantly, I should say that all 3 ideologies don’t have anything in them in regards totalitarianism or a dictatorship (those 2, in and of themselves, are ideologies). Communism is based on equality amongst classes (meaning that all companies and enterprises are owned by the people and sustained by them). Socialism is the idea that government controls business in order to regulate what the public can have. Fascism is the same idea as Socialism but with an emphasis on certain principle’s (like Hitler with the “religion” and “the superior race”). So, clearly, Obama falls most harshly under the category of Socialism (which many believe is the “road to Communism”). =)
Are you kidding me Yeah Yeah Yeah? Socialism has nothing to do with Fascism. Socialism is the light-version of communism, like conservative parties are the light-version of fascism. Actually by european standards, Obama is a right-centered politician who doesn’t come near what you describe as “communism”
Peter, you have no idea what you’re talking about, do you? Yeah Yeah Yeah is dead on, fascism and socialism are both about state control of business. The difference is whether it’s done to benefit the government (fascism) or the people (socialism). Of course, in practice it has always benefitted the government.
Ew gross!
Why is that gross? She’s an adult and all…doesn’t appear to be horribly unattractive …I don’t get it.
She strikes me as airheaded, which negates any hot points (IMO). Plus I don’t think she’s hot.
Yeah? Well, she is.
Are you kidding? She’s a republican, but she’s not crazy! I would vote republican if they moved the party to align a bit more with her values than her fathers.
Check out her appearance on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, she’s actually quite intelligent (another turn-on), and she’s not afraid to give her honest opinion.
I’m a chick and I think she’s got some of the prettiest stems I’ve ever seen!
I saw her on Bill Maher recently and she struck me as dumb. I was dumb struck! Didn’t catch her on The Daily Show or Colbert though. I still don’t think she’s hot.
There are many far hotter, but she’s not bad for a republican
Oh, whoops. My mistake; linked to the wrong thread. {http://media.photobucket.com/image/mccain%252527s%20daughter/catholiclouisiana/catholic2/meghanmccain.jpg}
let me at her and REAWR! IT’S ONNN!
the fact that you watch bill maher makes me think you’re dumb… that guy spoon feeds his audience…
I watch it sometimes, I don’t have a shrine built to the guy in my house or anything.
I don’t agree with him all the time…maybe not even half the time. He has good guests though.
If you want to really get on the judgement wagon, perhaps you’ll be interested to know that I also recently watched a Daisy of Love marathon on MTV. Now that’s dumb.
Dude, are you serious? I caught 5 minutes of that crap and felt so dumb afterwards I was eating crayons.
…they taste like purple, you know.
But do they smell like blue?
I HEAR RAINBOWS! YAYYYY!
Yes. I’m serious.
MMMMmmm! Purple!
Bill Maher can be funny. Very funny. But he might actually be too left for me. Which hurt saying, I might add. Plus I find his blatant condemnation of all religion insulting. That being said, he can still be very funny. I find his show annoying though.
I take it you didn’t see Religulous then?
Uh, no. I passed on that one.
I did, too. I was raised to treat other people’s religions with respect even if my beliefs differ and I don’t agree with them.
Well, it was some funny stuff!
Bill Maher:
I have no respect for any cast member of “DC Cab”….
… Thank you google images.
Yes, Fox News can be so biased.
I hope you realize that FOX is not the only biased news source. CNN and NBC are both very biased as well.
The Honduran president was elected by the people in a democratic election. I can see why a fascist coup on behalf of the Honduran financial elites would have more appeal to a wingnut.
And the Honduran legislature and Supreme Court threw his ass out of office and ordered the military to arrest him when he illegally tried to abolish term limits.
I can see why a fascist coup
on behalf of the Honduran financial elitesattempted by a puppet of Chavez would have more appeal to awingnut/del> moonbat.What the president was attempting to do was legal, but the rightwing rich were afraid for their money and power, so they instigated an old-fashioned military coup. It was the same in Venezuela, where the rich pulled off a coup after Chavez was originally elected by the people. Bush and his rightwing cronies, of course, initially praised the attempted fascist takeover, until it was pointed out that they were showing their true colors.
What the president was attempting to do was legal
Read the Honduran Constitution and learn why it was, in fact, illegal for Zelaya to try and abolish term limits.
It’s called an amendment. Like that first one to our Constitution that gives you the right to sound like a complete and utter idiot.
Or are you against the idea of amending the Constitution when it comes to term limits? If that’s the case then I guess we should get rid of the one in ours that LIMITS presidents to only 2.
It’s called an amendment.
Which has a process to go through, that Zelaya didn’t follow. Therefore, his actions were illegal, and he was effectively impeached and removed from office.
Oh my God!!! Asking the people if they would support a change and making it non-binding. HOW OUTSIDE THE PROCESS!!!!
That would be like…taking a poll. Or….drumming up support for a policy. HOW DARE A PRESIDENT!!!
You missed the illegal ballots imported from Venezuela…
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/07/in-russia-president-obama-explains-his-support-for-ousted-president-of-honduras.html
Yes, it’s called an amendment. And there’s nothing in the constitution that prohibits an amendment removing term limits. However, there is this.
“No citizen who has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President. Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform, as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years.”
He proposed its reform, and therefore removed himself as president.
Neqamel is right on point with that. You can read the Honduran constitution for yourself.
http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Honduras/hond05.html
Further, you speak of the wealthy and powerful. Do you know who Manuel Zelaya? Do you know his background?
Get some education and then come back to the discussion. This is a serious issue. Peoples lives are in the balance.
Grammar is also in the balance. “People’s” is the proper form for possessive plural.
Yes, you are correct. Thank you for pointing that out. It does quite easily undermine my whole point, doesn’t it? I will remember the damn apostrophe next time, troll.
Don’t call VG a troll if you don’t know the regulars. VG is awesome and regular around here, don’t call her a troll. Wanting the English language not to be disrespected and hoping someone will read their viewpoint and think about it before posting is NOT a negative thing.
Can I let loose the hounds? Pleeeeease?!
GO!
That was a troll post. An absent apostrophe was not a showing of disrespect for the English language. The comment was a showing of disrespect for me.
Your argument about about thinking about a post is moot. The absence of an apostrophe in the word people’s does not change the substance of the viewpoint. Further, how am I to consider her post before I post when she posted after mine? I do not follow your logic.
The problem is that these trolls are looking for grammatical errors so that they can lambaste the author. I do not need an English lesson. I hold a doctoral degree. The absence of the apostrophe was unintentional and due to my hurried typing. Any person of rational thought and having stable mental health would overlook the issue and discuss the substance of the comment.
No, VG is a grammar troll. Her “trollness” may not infringe upon her “awesomeness” in your book, but it appears that VG is a very petty person.
Still, I will try to not disgrace the hallowed pages of this site with my horrendous lack of English skills. For I know that my lack of an apostrophe injures the senses of the better versed and benevolent English speaking persons who visit its comment pages.
Get to know someone before you judge them, or you’ll still come off as an asscrack. She shouldn’t have to think about your post- What I was saying that you, with your missing apostrophe, which I don’t really care enough about but VG just corrected, not attacked you in any way, but I think if an author types lik ths nd dont thnk bout grmr then they’re not even trying to post their viewpoint, and that if you want to make a logical discussion, it’s probably a good idea to proof-read your longer posts for mistakes, so it doesn’t imply that you didn’t think about your post/viewpoint before you added it. Anyway, VG is NOT a troll. Doesn’t matter what you say, she may have offended you by correcting your posts, but that doesn’t make her a troll. Your definition of trolls is mistaken. Her correction of grammar was simple. You spent much longer attacking her for the correction. Please, it doesn’t matter enough to argue over. Don’t be offended because VG just wanted to fix your grammar a bit. It’s not a negative thing.
Not trollish.
Strawmannish, perhaps, but not trollish in this forum.
Deep’s got it. We’re all guilty of being pricks here. You, however, come off as unable to ignore a correction to your spelling and need to rage on about it for paragraphs and paragraphs.
Wow. You should read your longer posts before you hit comment. Look at that run-on.
I don’t need to argue with a kid.
She’s a troll in my book. End of story.
I’m gonna have to go along with Sud here. It was obvious what the intent was, and it always happens when someone can’t tackle substance.
Sud, you’re an idiot if you think that “because I’m a kid” is a valid argument to prove you right for calling your names. Annie, it also happens when someone doesn’t feel like tackling the substance, or just wants to help. Straw man? Maybe. Trolling? Definitely not.
Wow! Sud, thank you for creating complete thoughts and conveying them well. Tyler, work on arguing, it might not be your strong suit at the moment. Also work on conveying a message; despite a few errors in Sud’s writing, it is still simple to tell what the over intent of said writing is. On the other hand, Tyler, your arguments seem to be repetitive and poorly conveyed. There are online english classes that can help you with this. You can sign up for them and never have to worry about leaving your computer, it might suit you well. Cheers.
you were very lengthy in the way you stated your point. Also, you made a point to slam the author, which makes you, by definition, a troll. Not as much as is traditional on forums, but one none the less. Also, “pulling rank” is usually deeply frowned upon, unless it is a topic of expertise. And if you must use a negative term for such ‘pettiness’ as you called it, try ‘grammar nazi’. Its more context appropriate.
And yes, I realize I just made some capitalization errors and possible gammatical ones too, due to not checking. Ahh, the irony.
Asdf, I’m sorry that I don’t like people calling my friends trolls, even if they do make a slightly straw-man move. If you feel the need to insult me, at least do it for something you can prove, rather than the assumption that I try never to leave my computer. Go f*ck yourself, I don’t feel like arguing with you.
Tyler: I agree to a point, but to argue with someone and invalidate points b/c of spelling and/or grammar, at least to humble lil ol me, kinda is a snotty approach. No to disagree on points and then point out grammatical and spelling errors is just plain annoying, but ok.
It doesn’t invalidate their points, just makes them look stupid.
That’s not the only point I made. The fact that you focus on that point is ridiculous.
Wow, is that your opinion or did you get that from your college professor?
lol
the honduran president also tried to illegally hold a referendum to alter their constitution so he could stay in power and when their high court said no, he tried to do it anyway. so actually this “elected” president is the one trying to hijack the country.
and instead the military came in and ousted him before his term was over and before the next election… sounds like a coup to me…
No, sounds like impeachment
Since O’Bama is continuing or re-affirming many of Bush’s poicies (re: war, Gtmo), does that make O’Bama the worst president by proxy?
If you douchebags weren’t so concerned about the letter follwing pols’ names, this country would be a lot better off.
Hmm… Re-affirmation of something we’re already entrenched in shouldn’t really be counted against the President IMO. Now that Bush has had us dug in overseas for so many years, action to suddenly up and leave most likely would be catastrophic in several respects (not least of all Radical Islam viewing it as a victory and weakness on the free world’s part). There are numerous other bits, I’m sure, I just use the war as a single case in point.
As for your second point about following polls by the letter, I seriously agree!
He’s worse than your talking-point pundits keep repeating over and over that Carter was.
The reality is decidedly different.
How is a guy actually trying to make America better — and respectable again — WORSE than the guy who single-handedly tore it apart and nearly made it a police state?
Yes, because taking a massive debt which is causing financial problems and ballooning to even more stupid levels is GOOD for the country.
By the time Obama and the congresscritters are done, America will be bankrupt, the dollar will no longer be a reserve currency, China will be trying to dump it’s American debt, and there will be hyperinflation.
We will be like Zimbabwe or Hungary, with triple digit MONTHLY inflation.
So in 4-8 years when none of this happens will you kindly go jump off the nearest bridge to put us all out of your misery?
Poor form ‘The Steve’
True. I tire of “the sky is falling” rants…
Things aren’t great, but they aren’t as bad as some people like to claim.
I’m with the Steve. Dave is a bit of a drama queen.
right now, no they aren’t that bad, wait until about 3 and a half years from now and then see if it still holds true, I’m thinking it won’t.
The Steve: Thingas aren’t that bad. But they aren’t getting better. And a lot of people don’t think Obama’s philosophy (more taxes, more spending) will help. I don’t thin the sky is falling yet, but it sure does look like rain.
Yeah, because an unemployment rate that is higher than 10% is nothing to worry about; and the fact that the president and his goverenment can’t fix it is absolutetly fine. (I am being sarcastic here, because it really isn’t ok).
Really? Is that why China, Russia, and several other countries are supporting creating a new reserve currency?
Let’s talk inflation. Inflation is caused by expanding the money supply by either printing money or selling government securities. The government has been selling securities to China and other governments for decades. That has resulted in hidden inflation because all of the expansion has occurred over-seas. When those governments decide they want to cash in all those securities, that inflation will come home to roost.
Because the value of the dollar will be falling, it will be hard for the government to borrow money. This will result in an increase in interest rates. But, even then, the government will have problem paying for all these programs, most of which are unnecessary and not in the purview of the federal government.
THIS. Dead on.
Thanks, Dave. Not to mention the fact that Obama is breaking every promise he’s ever made. It’s not ‘investing in the country’ that makes him a Communist and a bad president, it’s the way he is doing things. He’s not being accountable like he said he would be. The list of terrible things he is doing goes far beyond the limited space I have in this forum.
Note: I used to be a huge Obama supporter. I truly loved the guy. Until he started supporting worse plans than Bush ever did. And I hated Bush.
(By the way, all this may soon be illegal anyway, because there is a bill being passed that could make it illegal to post or portray anything on the internet that even hurts someone’s feelings. Check Miley Ray Cyrus’s endorsement and the link on my name.)
He has NOT broken every promise he’s ever made. He’s keeping them, which is scarier to me than if he’d broken them.
That website is positively oozing with right wing propaganda and fear mongering… There were banner ads for free handguns and survival gardens for the coming apocalypse…
Is it fear mongering if it’s really happening? I’d rather risk looking like an idiot and try to save a few people than sit back, be quiet, and go along with the status quo and watch my beloved country go down the shitter.
There’s nothing wrong with a survival garden. We aren’t eating right anyway. And what’s wrong with a free gun if you get it only after taking a five day safety course that gives you better training than law enforcement?
At least ask questions, people, instead of just swallowing what you’ve been fed.
If you don’t like my opinions or my facts then do your own research, I’ll celebrate when you do, I’m just trying to help get people thinking. I couldn’t stand Bush either.
I’m not on that infowars bandwagon, but could your respond substantively to the information you disagree with on that site?
Oh the drama…and the bullshit.
Yep, that’s right, Dave…this whole economic crisis that was in full-swing well before he took office is ALL his fault. Bush did NOTHING wrong.
Loosen up the tinfoil hat there, bud. It’s cutting off the blood flow to what little brains you’ve got.
Here is a suggestion for you: Take a reading comprehension course.
Just curious– Were you squealing about our spending when we were wasting multiple billions of dollars on a useless war? I didn’t think so.
And if a Republican were president, you would be saying nothing just as before.
A “useless war”, that, mind you, was a retaliation against radical terrorist sects who attacked us first. In the unspoken words of SecularPatriot, “Oh, come on. It’s just millions of people. We can make more.”
War in Afghanistan = Retribution/Retaliation for 9/11
War in Iraq = WTF
It was already well on its way, before Obama was even in the Senate, did you think of that?
Oh no, of course not, because then you’d need to look up real facts.
obama isnt investing
hes SPENDING AND SPREADING
he is spreading our wealth LIKE the communist he is
give me a break. instead of spouting garbage, try to figure out what a communist really is.
Communism in this country is face painted onto an enemy of the state during the time period of the cold war. Socialism as well but thats another story… If you’d like to know the rest… read a book, preferably one from the library.
And that last bit was towards Ryan, not you Charlie.
These days, a communist is simply someone who isn’t a foaming right-winger.
You keep using that word….I do not think it means what you think it means.
-Laughs so hard he chokes-
ah princess bride you’ve taught us well.
I guess my above comment should have started with: “Let me explain… no there is to much…. Let me sum up.”
Well, my mom always told me if I couldn’t say anything nice to shut the fu(k up….. So, everything seems to be spelled correctly.
The spelling might be OK but the punctuation is a bit weak.
I think President should have been capitalized, too; am I right?
tis only proper. It annoyed me a little on GMA this morning they kept referring to him as Mr. Obama on the scroll. I kept going “It’s President, we called Bush President, we still do, same with Clinton and all the others, call him President!”
I’m guessing they’re not switching to the WSJ/Economist style?
I dunno, it just irked me. >.< My mother laughed at me though when I ranted to her about it.
There’s a new style book? They’re not using AP style anymore? Nobody ever tells me anything.
Yes, there are more than a few style books out there, and no, they aren’t using any of the style books, or copy editors much anymore. These days you’re likely to find fewer typos and grammar crimes in an internet flame war than in the daily newspaper, or an AP wire-feed.
That is so sad. Back when I was in high school and college we were required to follow the AP Stylebook to the letter. To the LETTER! And God have mercy on us if any typos slipped through. And this was HIGH SCHOOL!
No. It’s only capitalized when used as a proper noun.
Like “President Bush” kicks “President Obama’s” ass at Texas hold-um.
Not “the former president, you know, George Bush, doesn’t hold a candle to the current president, you know, that muslin africun dude Barrack Insane Obama.”
And stuff.
Thanks, Deep Thought. I wasn’t sure about that one.
Journalism major.
Considering the languishing state of our country’s press, you have my sympathy.
Many people feel distrustful of President Obama because he is so much smarter than they are. Those same people loved Bush because he was a moron and they could identify with that.
Many people feel distrustful of President Obama’s TelePrompTer because
he is so much smarter than they are.because without it he’s a uh.. uh.. bumbling moron … uh .. um.. uh… who comes across as uh.. even dumber uh.. than Biden.. uh uh uh.Sorry, I would just like to ask, have you ever done public speaking on a large scale? Or even just to a full high school or college auditorium? It’s nerve racking, even more so if you don’t have your notes or a prompter so you can focus so you’re not so nervous. Saying that just because he goes ‘uh’ so much makes him idiot doesn’t do either you or him justice. I never said W was an idiot because of how much he stumbled on his words, just on how I interpreted his politics.
Sorry, I would just like to ask, have you ever done public speaking on a large scale? Or even just to a full high school or college auditorium?
Public speaking, and performing in front of crowds numbering in the thousands, thanks. Been there, done that.
And the fact that uh, uh, Obama is uh, lost uh, without the TelePromTer is not the only reason he’s an idiot.
Just supporting evidence.
Well, so have I, I’m just saying that he could be nervous you know. There was no need for the snarkiness.
I was merely stating that there might be a reason for stumbling over words. We all do it. The stumbling was the only reason you gave, initially, for him being an ‘idiot’.
Yes I have and I do not have that problem. I have a bit of advantage though… I get to speak directly from the heart and don’t try to grandstand.
The wingnuts have used their Rove Reverse Reality approach here. Obama is brillant, hardworking, and prepared. Bush was brain-damaged, lazy as only a rich brat can be, and clueless. Therefore, being brain-damaged, lazy, and clueless is superior, and being brilliant, hardworking and prepared is inferior.
Not only has Naqamel spoken before thousands of people, he’s also been president, so he would know.
Translation: Naq made me look like a fool on Honduras, so I’m going to piss and moan about it.
You stay classy, NP.
Translation: I’ve been on the internet long enough to recognize bogus claims by wingnuts wanting to falsely impress people with BS claims of superiority.
LMAO!!!
FTR, WillySTL is no relation to Eric-in-STL. In case the STL threw you off.
I was just wondering if you were neighbors.
Haha, what? I didn’t like Bush but I respected him. There’s no need for you to call me a wingnut. For your information, I’m a democrat that’s middle of the road. I’m by no means liberal. There was no need for such an attack. I was merely saying that, like bush, and like any other president, he’ll fumble since public speaking isn’t something that people are inclined to. I, personally, start shaking like a leaf.
I didn’t refer to you as a wingnut. I was referring to Naqamel.
I know, >> that’s why I put a nesting fail underneath. I was incensed that they decided that just because I was sticking up for BOTH presidents in that they speak publicly and therefore would get nervous that I was sticking up for only ONE of them. I apologize.
sorry, nesting fail.
Please cite evidence that Obama is brilliant, hardworking, and prepared. (Other than campaign advertising, please.)
If it’s hot enough under the tv lights, he gets a little shiny. Does that count?
Only if we can claim that Original Recipie Kentucky Fried Chicken is hard working.
The vote is out on that one… I mean the chicken tries so hard, but does it really put in the work?
How’s this for you: one doesn’t get to lecture on Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for 12 years by being a slouch.
Nope; it requires that most revered of Chicago resources – clout.
Don’t knock clout, it’s good stuff. It’s also really fun to say.
As opposed to nepotism, which is much more American.
See that blip, way off to your left? It’s the topic! Run run run and catch up!
Oh snap!
Nepotism didn’t get him into college any more than it got John Kerry or Al Gore into college. In fact, Bush’s grades were slightly better than Gore’s, and on par with Kerry’s. If not a little better.
So he can test well. I’m not impressed. I am a master bullshitter on essays and tests. I’ve gotten A’s on papers that had about one page worth of substance and 8 pages worth of filler. It’s a family trait to be honest. We’re all good at it. And I *totally* see Bush in that light. There’s more than one kind of smarts. Bush is a manipulator. He’s good at that. But he’s too much of a goof-off to really pull off book smart. But honestly, did he really need it? He was f-ing president for 8 years. No matter how he got there, he got there. I can’t stand the fool, but somehow he ended up president, and you can’t do much better than that. So whether it was something he did well at school, or because he could use daddy’s influence, or whatever, he clearly did something right to get into the highest office in the land. And I still hate the fool.
Then how is it completely ignoring the constitution if he taught the law for 12 years?
Oh oh, I know this one! He’s not.
you might want to go reread the tenth amendment… a majority of what the federal government does is against the constitution…
But don’t you knooooow? Anything the government decides it wants to do is somehow tangentially related to interstate commerce and therefore authorized under the Commerce Clause!
[/sarcasm]
Living document, and all that.
Yeah, well where is it in the living document that says Obama can but privatized companies as the federal government. I’m still looking for that one.
Somewhere in the back.
Damn the fine print!! I thought Obama’s credit bill he got passed got rid of the fine print?
Actually, it was hidden in the last software license agreement you checked “yes” to without reading. Pretty sneaky!
It also says Microsoft now owns your car. Gotta read that fine print, people!
They’d want that piece o’shit. More power to them. Then I’ll say it’s stolen, get the insurance money and get me my Charger (yeah I’m going Green, green with envy!!!)
One of the new Chargers or a vintage? Either is awesomeness, in my opinion, I’m just curious.
Diss: New, need four doors to get the Car Seat in and out.
ILPB: *sigh* Yeah, I do start coveting those when I see them.
The last president we had that “spoke from the heart” told us that God wanted him to run for President and invade Iraq. I think we can all do without another one of those. I’ll take a president that thinks with his brain.
I’ll take a president that thinks with his brain.
And the irony is that you support Obama.
As if Obama’s the only president to read from prepared text. Come on.
I think “um” is the sound of someone choosing his words carefully.
In that regard, we’re lucky to have a leader who thinks before he speaks.
hell, he doesn’t even think before he acts
After 8 years of Bush’s bumbling you guys can’t even admit that Obama is smart? Don’t like his policies? FINE. I’m happy for you. Congrats. At the very least admit that he’s smart. Geez.
Eric: Obama may be somewhat book smart, might read people somewhat, but I don’t htink he’s overly intelligent. I think he has an ego, superiority complex, and frankly doesn’t listen to half the country. An intelligent person in power wouldn’t alienate half the voting population and have his approval rating drop 20 points in the first six months (started at 80, and is now at 60). Once again before all the Bush haters chime in, I NEVER said Bush was intelligent either… “Fool me once, sh sh you’ll never fool me again…” WTF speak retard speak.
speaking of retard speak – what about such gems as obama trying to go without the ‘prompter and insulting people with developmental disabilities…
ah, but they glaze over it because it’s ok for him to sound socially inept
Didn’t glave over that. But if you throw them a bone once in a while, they actually listen to what you say. And I’m sorry it hurt my ears and brains to listen to Bush speak. With Obama I don’t watch it, ruined too many TVs. Didn’t think the cat could do that much damage to the TV.
Is that your strategoryialitic assessment?
Strikeout italic troll knows how to use strikeout and italics. We’re all very impressed.
so people who don’t trust obama…aren’t as smart as him?
people who “loved bush” (i’m using your words, which should just read “didn’t hate”) were morons, as was he?
well, you have a way of making sense of the world around you that could shield you from actually having to think about things and reflecting on reality.
But people who didn’t hate Bush were morons.
As are people who don’t agree with me. But only because I’m always right.
I love tacos.
I like cheese!
i like turtles
So do I. I’d better with a name like that.
OMG that was perfect. +1 Internet to morecowbell.
thank you
Tacos are always right, that’s true. And magical. They’re also magical.
SO magical, SB.
Agree!
I’ve started living off those 89 cent chicken tacos from Taco Bell. It’s actually cheaper than taking lunch to work!
That should be their new ad campaign: “Taco Bell — it’s cheaper than real food!” Actually, come to think of it, it’s not far off.
89 cent Heart Attack!!!! **no jokes about Eric’s weight**
*waiting for Deep Thought to make a crude taco joke*
*disappoints due to meeting*
Sorry
But I have an awesome story from a local gourmet magazine!
THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST –Refined diners appreciate the savoury taste of one of the Pacific’s little-known seafood delicacies, the bearded clam. Renowned for its pungent, yet robust flavour, the bearded clam is a rare treat that is a genuine pleasure for the tongue.
The savoury flavour of the Pacific Bearded Clam is an irresistible temptation to most people.
This furry little mollusk is often compared to chicken in its texture, although it can smell fishy if not snatched up fresh. Inside its shell, the bearded clam stews in its own juices, and the delightful taste is revealed every time it is opened up.
The bearded clam gets its name from the seaweed that grows on its shell. The seaweed nourishes itself on the minerals in the clam’s shell, and clings to it like lichen. The mossy seaweed gives the clams an appearance of facial growth–like a beard.
The bearded clam is found in the northern Pacific regions, buried deep in hard-to-reach seabeds. Bearded clam divers toil hard to get to their tasty treasure, but they know the reward is worth the effort.
Restaurateurs admit that men love the bearded clam, and that for women it in an acquired taste. They say that the bearded clam is best when it’s tasted for the first time, moist and dripping in its own succulent juices.
The clams make for an excellent chowder, but connoisseurs insist they be kept uncooked, preferring to pry them open with their fingers and slowly lick the insides. Many Canadians find that the bearded clam is almost as desirable as beaver, another delicacy.
Creston Colgate, a Seattle chef working in Vancouver, has a few tips for would-be gourmets.
“Coaxing them out is half the battle,” said Creston. “And they go very well with zucchini. You’ll find them juicier and almost begging to be swallowed. For bearded clam, you’ll definitely need to head downtown.”
“Bearded clams are the reason I like to eat out so much!”
Those who have tried bearded clams are passionate about them. “I love them when they’re hot and steamy,” said Diana Butcher, a recent convert. “I let the juices run down my chin. It’s so sensuous.”
“I love chowing down on bearded clams,” agreed Woody Normus, seafood lover. “I can’t get enough of them. In fact, bearded clams are the reason I like to eat out so much!”
“I’ve never seen a bearded clam,” said young Billy Roth. “But someday, when I’m older, I hope to sink my face into one.”
Although most bearded clams are bearded, there is are some recipes that call for the beard to be shaved off. Incidentally, bearded clam chowder is one of the only soups where it’s normal to find a hair.
Deep. I LOVE YOU. SO DAMN MUCH. BEST ARTICLE EVER.
*mutual* *feeling-thingies* *inside*
Yah. And stuff.
*goes home to play with inner 12-year-old*
Night!
-Needs oxygen stat-
Disappointed? Hell no, you came through with flying colors! I salute you!!
Bravo, sir. Bravo.
Your eloquence is top notch.
*standing ovation*!
If Obama is so smart, why does he think he can fix a debt problem by spending even more money that he (which in all reality is “WE”) doesn’t have?
We haven’t had money for years….
So we should cancel all government programs until we have a positive balance again?
I agree with your principles, I myself never spend money that I don’t have with the exception of things like my car loan and my mortgage that are unavoidable. The problem is you can’t just shut down the government…
The government is a bit bloated, they will have to cut some things. We may have to also submit to higher taxes until the deficit is paid or the dollar won’t be worth dirt. It’s near that now…
If you did not live in debt, you would not need to borrow money for your car loan and mortgage.
You paid cash for your house?
(I’m not saying it can’t be done, but ….damn.)
i paid cash for my house, but that was after years of living off top ramen and selling drugs to college kids…
if i lived in the midwest or the south or any other unpopulated area i probably could have done it without selling drugs to college kids, but i live in southern california…
Yeah, the unspoken next sentence to “You paid cash for your house?” was actually “So what are you, a drug dealer or something?”
Still, from my point of view the government should keep their nose out of that type of free enterprise, so, congratulations.
So you paid for the home you live in with cash, up front?
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you.
I wouldn’t be able to afford a house until the ripe age of 50 if not for loans. I don’t have $150,000 just laying around.
So you are saying that I should continue to live in an apartment building while saving what little money is left after the monthly rent payment in a bank account to slowly accumulate for the next 50 years? That doesn’t make sense when I can get a loan, live in the home, shift my monthly payments from rent to the mortgage thus accumulating equity rather than throwing the money down the drain. In 30 years I will be in better financial shape than I would have been had I simply banked every extra cent while paying rent.
It isn’t impossible to live a life without debt, it just isn’t practical.
You’re either just trying to get my goat (congrats, he’s ornery)
or you live in your parents basement and you have no idea how the world works.
Having “debated” with ubr before, I’m going with the “basement” option. (Or possibly he’s a trustafarian, collected an inheritance, etc.)
$150? I need to move…that’ll barely buy you parking around these parts…
dhoti – nesting fail dumbass… and no, i’m not still in school (like you) and yes, i did save money while i paid for my own schooling. i will say that i did split the house with my brother, but we both put down cash. $80k is not that hard to come up with if you know how to invest properly… but hey, you’re the financial industries expert you should know that already…
You really do have a complex, don’t you? Then, for your benefit — yep, you got me, I’m still in school. Elementary school, even. I’m skipping around in my overalls and my fluffy hat with my big lollipop, like Mr. Burns in flashbacks…tra la la…
You must be mad if you didn’t realize I was replying to Steve. LOL! So sensitive…see, that’s why I love you.
That’s what I said. “So sensitive… See, that’s why I love you.”
Ugh. Really?
Of course.
Um, ew.
take a look and you’ll see that steve wasn’t even replying to me in the first place, yet you still mentioned me in your response…
Who was he replying to, then? Mild nesting fail or not, it’s quite obvious.
yes it is. he’s replying to dave… or do you really think that he wrote that whole three paragraph essay in the 1 minute between our posts?
Actually, I thought he may have tweaked it on preview (as the mefi cats say), given that Dave’s talking in broad hypotheticals and you’re talking in specifics.
But if I decide to be nice and give you this one, will you pull one of the sticks out of your butt?
give me this one?
.
that’s rich…
he’s tripling the deficit. not having money is one thing, but this is a new ballgame.
Eh. Is it really though? It doesn’t really seem like a new ballgame to me. Hasn’t deficit spending been a fairly consistent government tactic for a long time? And has anyone really considered the shock that would occur from cutting large amounts of spending? I’m all for cutting waste, but if you take a hacksaw to spending things are gonna go badly, I think. Start cutting spending and suddenly government jobs are on the line, and isn’t unemployment high enough?
The government is the only sector to have grown jobs in the last year. Does that not seem like a problem? For all the jobs that the stimulus was supposed to create, there haven’t been any except for in the public sector. Meanwhile, the private sector is hemorrhaging jobs with no end in sight.
-
I said that to say this: The things we’re deficit spending on are not working. We need to stop. Stimulus 2 will only make the problem worse, or at the very least, still not help at all. The Republicans have been castigated in the past for deficit spending by Democrats who say it doesn’t work and mortgages our future. Now, it’s ok because “Bush caused it”? No, it’s still not ok. And at what point does this become Obama’s problem as opposed to being laid on Bush’s head?
-
Deficit spending and spending money we dont’ have is pretty much par for the course in the government. We have people there who have never had to live under a budget themselves, so how are we expecting them to live under one now? We ask them to term limit themselves, to make their own pay decisions, and to spend our money, all while trusting them not to screw us over too badly. Is it just me, or have we given the keys to the gold room and the asylum to the crazy people?
-
And as a side note, why are these people allowed to vote on their own pay? I don’t get to dictate my pay, why should they??
-
/off topic angry ramble.
The question I’ve always wondered is this: At what point is it too much? Our debt has been going up and up for a very very long time (I’m not up on my debt history, so I don’t know when if ever we were able to pay it down). As far as I can tell, nobody has ever really held the government accountable for said debt, and I wonder if anyone actually will. At what point does the government say, “Oops, ran out of money we didn’t have in the first place. We’re screwed.” Anyone who can answer that for me gets all the money I have in my pocket.
“At what point is it too much?”
When you monetize it. In other words, to cover it, you print more money, which makes faster the devaluing of our dollar and increases inflation. When you hear people talk about “hyper inflation” this is what causes it.
So far, the plan is to monetize 1.75 trillion of the debt.
Before Obama, total amount of debt monetized?
Zero
To put the 1.75 trillion in perspective, in 2007, the total taxes taken by the federal government was 2.3 trillion, and 500 billion of that came from exxon.
Monetization in of itself is not a bad word, but when applying it to a national debt, it can be more than toxic.
Enter monetization into wikipedia, they have a pretty accurate article on it, with one exception.
They site the federal Reserve as being the US’s “central bank”. In one sense, it is a central bank as it operates interest rates and prints money. in another and much more important, it is not owned by the government and makes a profit off of the money it prints. For every nickel it creates, it charges us 7 cents.
A central bank is primary and vital to the functioning of a socialist or communist economy. Take that any way you want.
tripling the deficit is not the opposite of cutting spending. some programs are just inefficient and their processes could be reviewed.
besides, i was commenting on the multiplier more than anything. increasing the deficit happens. but tripling…
because our kids will have to pay it off
Put it on their tab. Actually nah, our chidlren’s children’s chidlren MIGHT actually pay some of it off. If it ever gets paid off. “China the checks in the mail!”
speaking of china, i gotta go to walmart to buy more tshirts
George Washington would be ashamed.
Obama isn’t an idiot. He isn’t smarter than I am either, and I’m not really intimidated by him. He is, however, quite dangerous because he’s very popular (I used to think he was great as well) but is not working in the interest of the American people. He is also a verifiable liar.
He said he wouldn’t use signing statements. He does now. He said he wouldn’t raise taxes for the middle class. He now says he will. He said he’d pull us immediately out of Iraq. Nope. Etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
But then again, who should expect anything different? He’s a politician.
The only reason you think Bush is an idiot is because every time he made a small mistake in a speech the media played it over and over until the whole country thought he was an idiot. Bush actually has a higher IQ than Obama. Besides, Obama has made way more stupid mistakes in speeches than Bush. You can hear them all on youtube, but there was a speech he gave to Hispanics on the day before Cinco De Mayo and he said “Welcome everyone to Cinco de Quatro”. There was also a time where he gave a speech on veterans day where he said that he “would like to thank all those that have fallen for our country, I believe we have a few of you in attendance today. And there are many more that I don’t have time to list. Obama has said way more stupid things than Bush, but of course the media loves his and would never say a bad word about him, but if Bush would of said the same things they would of crucified him for it. My point is, you only think Obama is smart and Bush is an idiot because of what the media told you. And they are wrong, both men are intelligent individuals.
Interesting points you raise, Tychosonic. When will everyone realize that this isn’t about right vs. left, and it isn’t about Bush vs. Obama? This is an invented divisiveness that is taking our focus away from what is really going on.
It’s like having someone ask you if you want vanilla or chocolate, when you really wanted strawberry all along.
Exactly.
Instead of Republican vs. Democrat, can’t we just do what is best for the nation as a whole?
for starters can we please nuke fox, msnbc, and cnn? i think they’ve caused more terrorists than anything else i can think of…
Only if we get to add Lifetime.
The Lifetime Movie Channel too. Lifetime’s slogan is “Where All Men Are Evil”, and LMC’s slogan is “Where All Men Are Still Evil, And They Smell Too.”
Yes. If Lifetime is “Television for Women” (is that still their slogan?) I’m ready to question my gender identity.
can we add the oxygen network too?
Why not? I’ll happily throw in Home Shopping Network and the Disney channel, too.
Lifetime gets me laid.
Ask me how.
i don’t want to know…
Because….sleeping with you beats watching that crap?
(Please tell me there’s a reason that doesn’t sound that bad!)
Since you asked so nicely:
Teh movie night.
Antagonist = teh super badmo!!!!elebenties!!!
*popcorn and shirt sleeve*
Deep Thought = teh good in comparison to the badmo.
Teh really good. Teh sooper goooood.
Teh secks.
fin.
*raises hand shyly*
Couldn’t you achieve the same effect with, say, a good action or horror flick?
Manhating secks = best secks ever.
*imho*
Having said that, I’m with you. Can you spread the word?
My wife asks why I don’t want to spend more time with her. Uh, because you’re watching this Lifetime crap on TV!! Nothing makes that stuff tolerable.
The only redeeming feature for Lifetime is that they play Frasier and Will & Grace in the mornings. All of the other crap they have on is just so much fertilizer. And they need to bring back playing The Golden Girls.
My brother used to call Lifetime B*tch Network. I find it offensive to women. It’s offensive that they think that’s all women like to watch. Give me some damn explosions and knock of off with all the crying and hugging.
*envisions threesome with diss*
dies.
We love you for a reason, Janie.
This is it.
Here here.
Fuking right! Chuck Norris would be proud.
When we walked out of Transformers the other day one of my friends was complaining about how it was too confusing at the end and you couldn’t tell which robot was fighting who and I was like, “Does it matter? They were GIANT ROBOTS FIGHTING WITH BIG EXPLOSIONS!!!” All I needed.
You should also tell your friend that mental retardation can cause extremely confusing movie experiences. She should already know most every Transformer before she walks in, damnit! :/
Same technique used to convince all of us that Gerald Ford, a talented athlete, was a clutz.
the same technique used to convince all of us that jimmy carter was a good diplomat and clinton was virtuous…
Did the media really try to make Clinton look virtuous? If memory serves, the media loved to make points about what an immoral sleaze he was.
not anymore… remember all the speeches he gave in the 2008 election? the only people who still talk smack on clinton are people with memories and people who like a good blowjob joke…
No, not really. I’m 16 and still talk about it. It’s A- funny and B- hard to forget.
tyler, you (like me) still enjoy a good blow job joke… and if you’re sixteen right now you would have only been 5 when he was impeached…
I know, but I still remember it. and what happened, I haven’t forgotten
Well, I’ll give you that. But the same could be said for many former presidents as well. Carter is probably more popular now than he ever was as president. And Bush Sr. is getting much more respect these days than during his administration. And yes, many in the media have totally forgotten his past sins as well. And don’t get me started on how Reagan is a Republican god. I’ll admit to being one of those people with selective amnesia. Clinton’s immoral actions were part of why I switched parties around 2000. I switched back around 2004, though. LOL
so…who is the worst again?
And many of us didn’t “love” Bush. He reallyl started out great, and was doing a tremendous job on the war. But he made some really stupid and expensive things, too. He wasn’t perfect…Far from it. And, unfortunately, he opened the door to all these “bail outs”. But the fact remains that Obama is buying up private businesses (against the constitution) and putting them under federal controll, and he has, in 5 months, spent more than than ANY other president….more than the last several presidents combined!
”tremendous job on the war” WTF man
since when doing great at killing people is a quality
since when doing great at killing people is a quality
When the people the military are killing are trying to kill all of us.
Er, I mean, peace and love, duuuuuude.
yeah…. because the terrorists are everywhere and the Iraqui civilians, women and children included were coming over here to shoot you in the head…
War on Terrorism ≠ Iraq War
Ooooh! Totally OT, but HOW did you do the “not-equal” sign?
≠
Test.
Tease. Tellllll meee! *whines*
ROFLMAO!
Take off your shirt. Do it.
≠
♫
♥
Ω
₫
‽
♠ ♣ ♥ ♦!
Well, if you weren’t such an idiot, you would know that the Iraqi civilians were, by far, killed by other Iraqis and various flavors of terrorists such as Al Qeda in Iraq.
But, you are just drinking the kool-aid.
Amen.
There was virtually no terrorist activity in Iraq until AFTER we went in. Wanna know why? had a LOT to do with the fact that brutal dictator Saddam Hussein was in charge. While not condoning his actions, he kept that country under tight control.
I’m STILL not sure why the heck we went in there in the first place. The guy that attacked us was in Afghanistan the whole time.
Holy cr@p! Civilians in the middle east are trying to kill Americans?
FUNNY… I HADN’T NOTICED.
And exactly how many Iraqis were involved in 9/11 again?
Saving lives is what ‘doing a good job on the war’ means. As in saving our Troops lives and innocent people’s lives (as in preventing future 9/11 attacks).
But hey, I mean we could’ve just shook the dust off our shoulders from 9/11, left security as it was at airports, and told AlQida (sp) it was ok, no harm done! Ha, yea…even Obama after 9/11 would have gone to war.
If you can’t spell something, you can’t know much about it. Although that was kind of evident, spelling aside.
Do you remember that guy, Osama Bin Laden? Bearded guy? Yeah. He’s enjoying lamb kebab in Pakistan right now. Good job, G Dub.
Oh come on, he’s dead… No one could hide for that long with that much money on his head.
Hmm….didn’t somebody on here spot him rifling through their garbage cans recently (although they admitted it might have been a raccoon…)?
If he’s dead, then who got the money?
-Snickers and throws mysterious head behind corner-
Who knows, SB? Not like it matters, right?
Yyyyummmmmm Snickers!!!!
So, you don’t like peanut butter, but you do like peanuts?
Hey, Snickers really satisfies.
(Hmmm…*changing name to Snickers*)
D.B. Cooper.
He was very sick… Not saying anyone got the reward, but you never know…
I personally think that they should have spent that money to re-build the twin towers, but in the shape of two giant middle fingers flipping the bird in the general direction of the middle east.
One giant F-you to the terrorists.
Hilarious.
hahaha. best idea i’ve heard all day.
even better job to clinton who had a chance to take osama out back in the 90s. but hey, let’s not bring up old sh!t.
Yeah and he should have done it, obviously. But at least he didn’t occupy a foreign country and call it a solution.
naw, he just bombed places we’d never heard of and called it diplomacy.
I guess that makes GW’s total incompetence okay then.
‘total incompetence’… so… which president blew up a chinese embassy? which president signed off on a hare brain scheme that cost the lives of eight service men in a foreign desert?
.
and don’t forget that congress signed off on the iraq war.
Bringing up the incompetence of others doesn’t make GW any less incompetent. As far as eight service men in a foreign desert, I’m pretty sure we lost more than that during the Bush years. I’ve done some reading on the 109th congress and I’m certainly not defending them.
total incompetence is a term that needs a definition. by trying to get you to compare bush to other presidents i’m trying to gauge the personal meaning of the term. you throw it out there like it’s a given, when in comparison all these presidents have screwed up majorly.
My condemnation of one person’s performance doesn’t equal support for another person’s performance. I am in agreement that most of our presidents have failed in some ways, however, I use total incompetence to describe Bush because I can think of nothing that has improved as a result of his presidency. Even Nixon did SOME good.
Bush = national scape goat.
Pres Bush = national letdown
If the terrorists (scuse me) insurgants would stop hiding in schools, mosques and neighborhoods to fight from, a lot fewer people would be killed. And a lot fewer civillians have been killed than ever before. Our troops have been VERY careful about that. Maybe too careful. Not that I want innocent blood shed, but it IS a war.
“Maybe too careful. Not that I want innocent blood shed, but it IS a war.”
Wow.
that’s pretty much how this is our country
The people who wrote the Constitution spent a lot of time and built a successful government.
But these liberals think they’re better.
so…who is the worst again?
William Henry Harrison.
Damn you, Millard Filmore!!!!!!! *shakes fist at sky*
Ok, you got me there. The Fugitive Slave Act is a hard… uh… act to follow.
A classic, for sure.
FILLMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRREEEEE!!!!!!!
TTWWWWWWWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wormstrum!
*sings Animaniacs* William Harrison, how do you praise? That guy was dead in thirty days!
*continues*
(*well, continues from an earlier point!*)
Tom Jefferson stayed up to write the Constitution late at night,
So he and his wife had a great big fight,
and she made him sleep on the couch all night!
*headdesk*
Declaration, not Constitution. Fail on me.
James Maddison never had a son and he fought the War of 1812,
James Monroe’s colossal nose was bigger than Pinocchio’s!
It isn’t communism yet, it’s socialism. he isn’t investing, he’s bringing things under govmt control, which is very inefficient
agreed
He isn’t investing in America…he’s taking it over. Buying out PRIVATE industries and businesses and putting them under the federal controll. Telling businesses how much money they can pay their executives, or what they are allowed to produce and sell to the public! That’s not just socialism, it’s fascism, too.
That’s not just socialism, it’s fascism, too.
Absolutely true. Anyone who says “but.. but .. fascism isn’t left wing” hasn’t ever studied what Mussolini and Hitler’s platform was.
Suffice to say, Benito Mussolini would feel right at home in today’s Democrat Party.
Hitler and Mussolini were fascists. And fascists are/were rightwing. They would feel right at home in the modern American Republican Party.
Claiming that American liberals and old school fascists are the same is just a Republican big lie.
It’s like the Klan claiming that it isn’t racist. Or Sarah Palin claiming that the Alaska Independence Party doesn’t have secession in it’s platform, when that’s the only reason they exist.
Hitler and Mussolini were fascists. And fascists are/were rightwing. They would feel right at home in the modern American Republican Party.
Once again, you are wrong. Read what Mussolini ran on, and read his platform, and you will hear it echo in modern Democrats.
And hear what every emperor and king ever decreed and you’d hear it’s echos in today’s conservative agenda.
Right, those emperors and kings, always wanting to decrease taxes on their subjects, always wanting more and more freedom, damn them!!
Yeah but the thing about Hitler, I mean the main reason people aren’t so keen on him was that he was a genocidal lunatic.
His financial approach took what was a bankrupt country and made it into a global super power in the space of a few years.
Agreed. I don’t want to have a debate on the man here, but my firm belief is this- Hitler was a genius, one of the smartest people of his time, despite the fact that he was a raving loony and a genocidal nut job. Once you take his morals and beliefs out of the equation, you get an incredibly intelligent, persuasive person who really knows how to run a country finance-wise.
Sociopath.
Me, or him?
Hitler, hon, not you!
Dick. Nixon.
Could have been the best president of all time.
*gasp* GODWIN!!!!!!
Take away ≠ banning. You know that.
there is a big difference between campaign promises, populism and election programs and the target politics.
the national socialists / fascists used sozialistic terms to catch votes from desperate people.
Most anyone who says “Obama is Great” or “I love Sarah Palin” hasn’t studied what any platform is far beyond “somthing to stand on then dive off of into the pool”
Wow, way to make a sweeping generalization of people based on their support of political figures. Clearly a reasonable, rational argument… I don’t know why I didn’t see it earlier.
I know, I feel so enlightened.
Please stop watching Fox News.
Agreed. I think they might actually be starting to leave the Fox news TV for PK. But for some reason, they just can’t think for themselves.
Please start watching the news and learn some things about economics and what the actual role of the federal government is as opposed to what it has been turned into.
I actually read quite a bit about the federal government and its role in economic matters. I also listen to a lot of NPR. As a rule, I avoid programming which employs words such as “fascist,” “socialist,” and “communist” when discussing current American politics though. I’m picky like that.
at this point my intestines started to distort.
in fact … mussolini or hitler would arrest and kill any demokrat, who is not on top of a tree after counting to three.
btw .. one godwin point.
i am still looking for a politician who can bear the burdens of our time and is not a radical madman.
bush helped to ruin your country – fact. obama is digging the grave even deeper, while trying to get the wheelbarrow out of the dirt.
our gov. (ze german) is giving the banks and companies loan securities to rescue them (and not because of the elections in september) while many workers are working short-time.
but what would brian boitano … ahem … john mccain do?
he could led the rest of your crippled economy go “bye-bye” or “bailem´out”. either you have millions of unemployed crying for revolution or people could say that you are a fascistic, socialistic, kommunist (can you feel the irony?). i bet he would have done it jast as obama did.
You sound as disgusted with the state of things as I am.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
That’s all I’m saying. The blame game doesn’t help anyone. We were in a hole either way and there is no magic fix.
that’s why i’m sick of people comparing bush to obama back and forth… it really does all of us a disservice when the issues no longer matter because you can’t get past the “he’s not bush” point…
compared to a moonless night a smoggy day in LA looks bright.
Cue the “I’m European and it’s really state socialism, nyah” argument in 3…2…1…
So basically it’s better that the private companies pay they’re executives millions while never doing anything for others than having those companies owned by the state?
Do you guys think once in a while?
Clearly, private companies are evil because they’re paying someone other than you millions of dollars.
clearly. I mean why can’t I work my butt off and get paid millions of dollars….oh wait, did I just say work? There goes my unemployment money…
No. Because their unregulated, anything goes, the risks be damned, screw everyone else so long as we get ours philosophy lead to this tanking in our economy and as a result the people at the top made off like bandits.
That’s why they’re evil.
The reason Madoff was the only one even in the news is because he was the only one that they caught. You honestly think he wasn’t anything but just one in hundreds?
They just caught three more in Dallas….
And as a side note, Maddoff isn’t a capitalist. He’s a scam artist, which isn’t the same thing.
Yes, good point! I think certain facets of our community would like us to believe they are equal though…
Nice sound bite, but not only is it factually correct, it’s internally inconsistent. If you care to put together a consistent version, I’ll consider refuting it.
Was Madoff the only one who got away with running a phantom, $170B firm for nearly fifty years? Yes, absolutely. I’m guessing by your “robber baron” rhetoric that you’re not that clueful about how finance works, but rest assured, it’s spectacularly hard.
“No. Because their unregulated, anything goes, the risks be damned, screw everyone else so long as we get ours philosophy lead to this tanking in our economy and as a result the people at the top made off like bandits.” –
Now please, go easy on Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank…
There is nothing wrong with companies paying whoever they want how much they want. As long as it is their money. However when it’s money given to you by the government to help keep your company afloat then their should be restrictions. If you take a loan from a bank they don’t tell you pay us back whenever. They give you a minimum payment and an interest rate. If it’s a loan the lender has every right to set terms on what heppens with the money.
Banks lay out the terms up front.
Loan sharks change the terms in the middle of the deal.
loan sharks use monthly compounding interest and *real* debt collection practices, but everyone knows the vig up front…
Nobody is forcing those companies to be bought out by the government. They have the option to go bankrupt, shut the doors, and fail just like any other business.
They came to the gov asking for a bailout/handout and they deserve what they get. If they don’t want the strings attached, they should keep their hands off my tax money.
No, they really didn’t have a choice. (Just look at how banks were forced to accept TARP funds, whether they needed them or not.) GM and Chrysler’s bankruptcies were politically untenable, so bailouts were likely under a Republican administration and absolutely going to happen under a UAW-friendly Democratic administration. The hearings, etc. were just for show.
So if it was unavoidable regardless of which party was in control, why all the finger pointing?
The banks got bailed out under Bush, and I think most people just accepted the fact that it had to occur, the same should be true of other bailouts. I don’t think republicans OR democrats are happy about spending our hard earned tax money to bail out private companies.
All I ask is that EVERY PENNY be accounted for, and spent in a manner that makes sense rather than paying huge bonuses for the very same managers and CEO’s that ran the companies into the ground in the first place.
On the contrary — there are a lot of very happy Democrats out there. The UAW made out like bandits (literally).
Let the new management and their regulators decide what makes sense. Arbitrarily cutting people’s seven-figure bonuses may give you the warm fuzzies, but you should be far more concerned about the chilling precedent it sets.
I’m actually of the opinion that GM should have been allowed to fail. (sorta)
Logic dictates that Ford should have been able to pick up more of the market share with GM out of the way, as well as buy some of the plants and hire some of the GM workers back into those plants.
I think it turned out as well as can be expected considering the alternatives, after all if the UAW does a poor job of running the show, they will primarily be hurting themselves. The goal is to eventually pay back the government, which I would love to see happen. (won’t be holding my breath)
Also, the UAW did agree to fairly substantial cuts to starting pay for general laborers (which were long overdue). It wasn’t all cheese and beer for the UAW, but they did come out pretty well.
Are you talking about the big shots in the UAW or the workers themselves? Because here in St. Louis there are NOT many happy UAW workers. They just tore down the Ford plant and the Chrysler plant here just shut its doors for good. The local government is more than a bit alarmed at this.
Well said
But sometimes turning some services into public ones is better. There’s many services that are just too expensive when managed in the private and if the government is to manage them, it is, sometimes, for the best.
Example: Free health care in Canada. Good service overall and it’s all managed by provincial governments.
Yeah no kimo for patients over 70. Yay hours and hours to be seen!!! Yay preautorization from the bearucratic, ineffecient, cheap government! At least with Insurance if you get “bad” service, get a new provider. With the government, may need to wait two to four years to fire someone, but you still end up with the same system, just new people. Where do I sign up?
Keep in mind that for most of us with insurance, that would require changing JOBS.
And don’t get me started on insurance companies, health or otherwise. You’re in good hands, my ASS.
Yeah, I agree there. I mean, take a look at the rate of the population growth vs. the rate of lawsuit growth- those two are growing in proportion. However, the prices for the insurance companies are growing at something that equals about ten times the rate of the growth of the population. Shucks, huh? Or at least, that’s what I read.
Insurance companies know when they’ve got you by the metaphoric short hairs, for sure. “Why did we raise your premium? Hmm…well, looks like we raised premiums for your area overall. So, because we CAN! Mwahahahah!”
Excellent point, diss. No matter where you stand on the health care issue, I’d be surprised if anything thinks the current system benefits us at all. The main reason I stick with my current job is because I don’t want to lose my crappy 1/3-of-my-paycheck insurance.
-Hug-
Eric: jump to federal government. Great insurance. Cost me and my wife a total over the course of nine months $350 to have a baby. I think that’s some damn good insurance.
The company I work at (before we used my Wife’s) has about 8 or 9 options for Health Insurance. I guess it all depends on where and who you work for.
This is part of the reason why being an AUSA is my absolute dream job. *sigh*
I think options in health insurance are more likely to be available with a larger company; I’m just glad to have reasonably decent coverage through the (smaller) company I work for. I’m under no illusions as to where the insurance company’s loyalties lie, however.
So as not to be confusing to most everyone, AUSA = Assistant United States Attorney = federal prosecutor.
What amazes me is that everyone is saying we have a healthcare crisis with (this many) uninsured people……..anecdotally, we have two orientation classes a week at my plant. The first one has about 30 people, the second anywhere from 5-10 (the second is Spanish only). Now, out of those 40 people, we might have 10 people who decide they want health insurance. This is after a lengthy explaination of why it’s a good idea to have it, the three types of plans we offer, the benefits, and all that jazz. Some people just don’t want it. So why are we forcing them to get it again? Why are we reforming something that not everyone wants?
-
On a side note, I feel your pain, Eric. I wish there was a way to shuttle our health care that we have over to you. It’s not the best I’ve ever had, but it’s cheap and it covers everything.
Froo, is the healthcare your company provides affordable for the average worker?
I work in the insurance industry, and for the most part I’ve found that people who don’t take company-sponsored medical plans generally cannot afford their portion of the premium, even when the company pays for a significant percentage of the total overall cost.
With regard to insuring all Americans, one reason could be that often those who don’t have insurance wait until their medical conditions become severe, and end up in emergency rooms. Emergency room treatment is very costly, and it is generally accepted that it is less costly to treat patients in the early stages of illness than it is to treat them when they become very sick and need emergent care.
I personally consider it to be affordable, but affordable is different to different people. Like I said, we have three different plans that we offer, and range in cost from $4 a week for single coverage ($8 for family) up to $18 for single ($40 for family). 80% coverage, no copay, vision and prescription included. The first, cheapest plan is generally used by young healthy people who don’t intend on ever going to the doctor, while the best coverage is used by those with families or who are ill or older. Also, the way our company is set up to pay the premiums, about once (sometimes twice) a year we aren’t charged for insurance for a month because the company has paid in too much.
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I still say that tort reform is where we need to start with “fixing” medical coverage. It wouldn’t be so expensive if the loser had to pay.
But mid-sized and smalls businesses usually cant afford to over pay like your company. Hell the mid-sized company I work for recently had to drop free prescriptions except for generics just to keep the premiums the same.
The point is froo, it might work for you, in your situation, but it doesnt work for a substantially larger number of people. People that have done nothing to you, or anyone that you love. People who are just like the rest of us, trying to make through each shit storm of a day.
Most of us work, some too hard, some not enough, some not at all. We cant punish the non-workers along with the one’s who work and especially those who work too hard.
The healthcare problem is entirely situational at best, but just saying that everyone should fend for themselves against corporations who work to make sure they pay AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE isnt right, not at all. Not when we have the power, and the intelligence to come up with something better.
Health insurance run by capalistic tactics will fail, just like our economy failed under pure unbridled capitalism.
There are certain programs that should be privatized, and others that should be handled across the board with equality, healthcare, education, roadworks, all of these should be basic rights.
What are you TALKING about? When did you imagine there was anything remotely approaching unbridled (much less the properly regulated against tort and fraud) free market HERE? Not in your lifetime or your parents’. We haven’t had anything like it in three generations. So where is THIS nonsense coming from?
Not to mention your idea of what “rights” consist of, and this concept of “punishing” people as opposed to people earning their rewards is so skewed it’s beyond all sane reason. What do they TEACH in these schools these days? It’s horrifying the product they’re turning out; truly.
Thank you, Anniee. I’m glad that because Max or I don’t agree with you, the school is to blame. Because it’s not our own political opinions or anything, we should be taught what YOU think. Sorry, but that’s how it sounds. The educational system didn’t formulate my opinions at all. Nor did the generation I’m in (or at least, not according to me, because I almost always ignore my peers.), it was me that decided my political beliefs and view of rights.
I knew you’d like that one. Tyler, you were educated by the state, and like most people who were, you’re a statist. This is no surprise and it’s no accident. The Prussian model of education was designed to do this, and it does it well.
Now you tell me you went to private school. Not that I will buy it out of hand, but it doesn’t matter. It’s still the same model and under the same control.
Okay.
Sure. No matter what you may think about today’s education, Anniee, you can’t definitively *know* whether I’ve been “brainwashed” in the way you suggest, or whether I A-wasn’t taught that or B- WAS, but shook it off and formulated my own opinions.
My keyboard just glitched and deleted the rest of my damn argument. Fricking laptops.
Nope. Went to public school. Don’t try and predict the future.
So…what’s the difference between you and any other of the countless statists that are churned out year after year from the state school system? I don’t see the hangup.
Not that I was discussing you but since you put on the shoe…
And yes, I find it absolutely horrifying the bizarrely skewed concept of what constitutes “RIGHTS” that has swept the nation via the publik de-education system and the media (see, it’s not just the schools, for heaven’s sake – we know that – it’s promulgated from above and below). I mean the lack of a shred of economic knowledge (reference to unbridled capitalism, which hasn’t been seen in this country since…ever – being that it was always properly bridled and that we aren’t close to a capitalist society anymore, bridled or not, and haven’t been for a long long time) – see I expect that. I know the schools don’t teach real economics or impart knowledge of economics to their students. In fact I know a hell of a lot about what the schools teach period, since I have been active for about 20 years in education in one form or another, but whatever. At any rate I expect the lack of economic knowledge but the things that still hit me in the face are things like that illogical bit about “punishing non-workers” (my God, spot all the errors in that phrase!) and this completely ludicrous view of what constitutes a RIGHT anymore – yes I get horrified and gobsmacked. I DO expect it, because I know what these institutions are about, but the day outrage about it dies is the day I might as well hang it up and just sit in a rocker on the front porch until the damn pine box takes me to my dirt nap. Until then I’m concerned about it and I’m going to express that.
Yeah… This conversation isn’t going anywhere fast. Oh well. I don’t really have the energy for this.
By the way that’s “try TO predict the future.” Try “and” doesn’t really make sense.
Hehe. I hope you know why I did that and why I think it’s funny. If you feel a tinge of annoyance, just imagine if that’s all I’d said and you can see why other people get annoyed, eh?
Actually, I didn’t feel a tinge of annoyance. I actually appreciated it, because I wasn’t aware I’d made that mistake.
The fact that I am a liberal, Anniee, does not mean that I am brainwashed or programmed or any of that crap by any means, actually. I can decide that for myself, but if you’re going to blame where I got my political beliefs on my education, then please, don’t be such a raving loony, or at the very least, take the f*cking tinfoil stick out of your ass and put it on your head. Saying that it’s because of the education I received doesn’t do a THING except make you look nuts and asinine, and like you’re trying to invalidate my points by insulting the curriculum. If your child didn’t even go to public school, how exactly do you know what they’re being taught? Or what I was taught for that matter? Cool off and stop being such an ass, please.
Tyler I’m not sure why you’re so defensive about this or why you even put the shoe on your foot, but as I’ve said, I have been deeply involved in education at the state level for a long long time. Longer than you’ve been alive. I’m qualified to have an opinion on this.
Ah, so it took you 16+ years to realize that the “publik de-education system” was just one big”Prussian model of education”, then? If you think about it a little longer, you may realize that the reason I’m defensive about it is the fact that I respect my teachers, public servants in general, and people who try to teach me things without foaming at the mouth. By all means, say our education system isn’t working for the majority of kids these days, I’ll agree with you. But acting like you know what I was taught and that I am just a”countless statists that are churned out ” by the educational system is just stupid. I’m defensive about it because I felt like “It’s horrifying the product they’re turning out; truly.” Is demeaning to educators who try their hardest each day, and that you made a crude implication about people who go through public school, like we’ve all been brainwashed or that we’ve been taught not to think. I am defensive because you made a derogatory comment about a public education system that I am currently enrolled in. That sum it up well enough for you?
Well I’m sorry it makes you so angry, but I stand by what I said 100%. Though it’s mostly not the teachers’ fault – the teaching colleges are just more of the same and teachers have themselves been churned out; not to mention they are hampered by an entire system that is *designed* to do this very thing. Though they’d get more sympathy from me if they’d stop complaining so much about their pay, which is really quite adequate. They don’t know how much harder it is in the real world.
By the way, if you don’t like hearing it from me, give John Taylor Gatto a read – he was winning awards for teaching before I was your age, and he knows of what he speaks. Give him a quick read – it’s a very simple little piece I’m asking you to read here – link.
All right, I’ll give it a read.
Quick question, Anniee- He’s writing satirically, right?
Thanks. Keep in mind the man is not a conservative. I’m not sure what he is politically, only that he’s an amazing writer about the realities of schooling.
Satirically? Well the style is somewhat satirical, but he means what he says.
So, he doesn’t actually mean the lessons he’s telling, he’s stating that they aren’t the way to teach, right? :/
He’s recounting for the public the lessons that he has been obliged to teach, the real ones, since he became a teacher. He’s parted ways with the public de-education mills, and so far as I know has been pursuing alternative education very successfully.
Just finished the re-read now. That guy is really, really damn good.
I thought you’d enjoy that, glad to have thought of it. If you ever get a chance to pick up his book “Dumbing Us Down” I assure you it won’t disappoint!
Id gladly give away a portion of my earnings if it means that kid on 103rd street in Brooklyn can afford a heart transplant.. or chemotherapy, whatever the specific case may be. Perhaps what they teach us now in school that they didnt teach you is that its good to give to the less fortunate if you can. It makes you a good person.
Horrible nesting fail here, this goes below…
If you’re referring to students as product, as if schools are factories, then I’m GLAD Im not being taught the same things you did.
Another kid? Well I didn’t know that – guess I pegged it right, though. You’ll likely grow out of it a little; real life tends to do that.
You know whats funny, I got told when I was 18 Id grow out of my liberal-ness about 10 years ago… It still hasnt happened, and I hope it doesnt.
Now I know me being 28 doesnt make me some older, more learned being, but it does mean I have my own opinions.
And Anniee perhaps maybe, one day you’ll realize that insulting people who have a different opinion than you makes you far more a child than I think I could ever hope to stay
I wasn’t talking about liberalness; but since it’s late enough that I’m not going to bother explaining it right now, I’ll retract the statement. Liberalness you may never outgrow, even if you start making good money and have most of it taken from you.
Well if you were talking about me being a kid, Im not one, so you werent talking about anything… but thats no different from normal.
Massive fail for confusing acts of charity and generosity (which I suggest you do as much as I do of THAT before lecturing me on it) and forcible confiscation of people’s earnings and output. That’s just…stupid.
I wasnt lecturing you Anniee, but I will point out that if you were so generous and charitable, it wouldnt be confiscation of your profits.
So spare me your self righteous dribble about how charitable you are when all you do on here is spew rancor about everyone’s right to NOT think diffferently than you.
You’re nothing more than a glorified troll that we keep around and respond to because…. well… the court always needs a jester.
You can have a conversation, you can talk to people, and you know what Anniee? You can do it all without insulting them. Not everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, uneducated, or brainwashed.
Or I guess in words you can understand, “Massive fail for thinking you’re better than everyone else.”
There’s ten seconds of my life I’ll never get back. Jeez.
Max, I wouldn’t call where I work to be anything bigger than midsized, if that. We have 8 working plants, three feed mills, and 8 or 9 hatcheries. We’re not big by any stretch. This plant alone has about 1100 people working for it, but still doesn’t fall under the label of “big business” because the size of the company as a whole is so small. But they still take care of us.
Sounds to me like you work in food supply. Which is a fair stable market, fairly. I know there is something tumultuous in that market, but look at it this way, I work in freight. When the economy sags, my company feels it hard.
Although we could talk all day about our work, but I know deep down we both agree healthcare should be available across the board, private or universal, its something that needs to be done.
sags…. feels… hard…
*inner 12-year-old dances a jig*
Holy shit, dude. I pay over $200 every two weeks for my family plan and that’s for a major retailer. I hate my job.
Good lord, that is rather pricey. Chances are though your copays are lower and you have free prescrips…. or at least god I hope so.
No. We still have the deductible, yadda yadda. It’s NOT particularly good insurance. The benefits are getting to pick my doctors from a rather large network, and the coinsurance makes going to my primary care physician relatively cheap. We’ve met our out-of-pocket two years running, yet they conveniently forget that and try to stick us with multiple medical bills that we’re not supposed to pay for. This is the insurance provided by Sears. Retail’s benefits almost always suck balls. This is a big reason I support health care reform.
PPO that’s why. HMO would be cheaper.
I’ll keep your ass in good hands
LoL.
That should be a new ad campaign for All-State!
Example:
The US Post Office – going broke
Social Security – going broke…
Oh good, my thinking was right (the socialism v. communism).
Meh, it’s how it works. The one side always critics the other and throws mud. It’s how it’s been since the beginning of the two party system. This is potentially why Washington didn’t want to be the first President; it’s historical that he said he saw where things were going and didn’t want part in it.
Smart man.
It seems to be getting worse and worse though, more mudslinging then I’ve ever seen before. Or am I just imagining it?
Not to mention the political memory of the average US citizen has a half life of about 4 years. Kind of explains the pendulonic motion of party control don’t you think?
yup. nothing like quadrupling the national debt and crippling industry to make him the BEST PRESIDENT EVAR, amiright? i mean, he’s black, cool, and has rock hard abs! he’s GOT to be the best president!
LMAO
Bush doubled the national debt, and the wingnuts followed him like lemmings. Obama hasn’t crippled any industry. Bush, however, nearly sent us into depression. Thanks to Obama, we may have averted that disaster.
And, once again, the wingnuts are using the Rove Reverse Reality approach: Obama is black, cool, and has rock hard abs, so he must be the worst president. Especially the black part.
He averted the disaster with almost double digit unemployment and multiple trillions in debt (many times more than Bush or any other prez). Congratulations! Once again, Liberals define success with who can fail the most. Tax cheats anyone?
Bush destroyed the economy. Obama is attempting to pick up the pieces. Bush is to blame for the double digit unemployment. Bush doubled the national debt, increasing it by over five trillion–that’s multiple trillions.
Once again, conseratives define success as anything they do, regardless of big a failure it really is.
question:
if john mccain would have won the elections, would HE be the one to blame for the high unemployment rate or his predecessor?
think about it. people are nor fired because the democrats or whoever won an election.
…unless they’re the other party’s candidate’s campaign manager.
hehehe …
“exceptions prove the rule.”
Bush Doubled the nations debt over a course of 8 years. Obama = 5 months. yay, Bush sucks…oh wait
That’c completely wrong. Obama did not double the national debt over the course of five months.
And yes, Bush does suck. Totally. He was the worst president in U.S. history.
Great point. They both suck(ed).
Averted the disaster the same way I saved myself from defaulting on my auto loan by putting the balance of the loan on twelve new 25% interest credit cards and making payments on those by emptying out my kid’s college fund. Brilliant!
Um, if people that trust him are so smart, than why do they need the gov’t to take care of everything for them?
They don’t. That’s a wingnut big lie.
Ok, then we can get rid of all those gov’t gimme programs that the Dems love so much, right? Yeah right.
I bet if you never needed one of these “gimme” programs you’d be the first in line. If you never felt need in your life, then you don’t know what it is like when you have some help.
Help is different from lifelong support.
They have to buy their votes somehow.
I love how those rightwing Republican farmers howl with outrage about all those city people on welfare, then collect their massive welfare checks from the government made possible by the farm bill. The farm bill is the biggest gimme program at the federal level, but that’s okay, because it goes into the hands of a bunch of rightwing, rural fatasses.
I don’t like farm subsidies, either.
It is far from the biggest gimmie program. But just because it is lower, does not make it right.
Stop farm subsidies. Let Americans internalize the true cost of food.
Wow. That’s so… totally wrong it’s pathetic.
Well, so’s your handle. Heh.
I’m only joking – Nailing Palin is obviously just a troll.
Dick S. Niffer owes me royalties off that handle, dammit!
And your reasoning is?????
Just because some people abuse the programs doesn’t make them bad ideas.
Actually it proves that they are bad ideas. There used to be a concept called the “deserving poor” and there was a reason for it. That was to prevent the abuses that a blind, bureaucratic system INEVITABLY leads to. A government can not even make itself accountable, much less the people it’s distributing largesse to. Private charity has always far surpassed bureaucracy, and Americans have always proven the most generous of people, when not under the yoke of slavery and oppression as we are with confiscatory programs.
I’ve said this before, but if I had to choose between people abusing the system while the right people still get the help they need, or saying screw it and cancel the whole thing so the abusers got nothing, I’d be willing to take some people abusing the system. But I’m just another bleeding heart liberal, so what can I say?
Remeber of something we call economy?
No, that was a long time ago… I can’t remember it… Our investments used to be worth something, we used to have retirements and could count on social security to help us out… Now?
Remember that the economy, stocks, etc tanked in September of 2008? And no one could get a loan because the banks had all (rapped in their pants? And who was President then? Huh? Or is that too long ago for you to recall, maybe?
Did I mention any presidents?
At least he doesn’t claim the “Department of Law” will make his troubles go away …
OK, know how I know that you’re a liberal idiot repeating talking points?
Because there is an Alaska Department of Law.
Once again, there is an Alaskan Department of Law.
http://www.law.state.ak.us/
WOW!!!!! You mean that Alaska makes all the decisions for the rest of the country when it comes to legal matters?
Guess we don’t need that Attorney General position anymore.
Socialist. That’s different than Communist.
Uh…maybe we call it communism ’cause that’s the direction he’s taking this country? Personally, I think the real stupid people are those who still haven’t figured out that the government spends the money that gets taken from their paychecks every day. Your tax dollars don’t stretch this far, folks!
That’s why they are thinking up new and inventive ways to tax us everyday. That takes a lot of effort!
This country doesn’t need investment. This country just needs the government to lower taxes, and let the people invest. Obama Is investing in his own party’s interests, not the country’s
No. This country needs to back away from consumerism, educate its citizens, invest in new technologies for fuel independence and new jobs for the future. It’s time we stopped exploiting 3rd world countries for their dirt cheap resources and begin to think outside the box on what our country produces. it’s time to stop exporting our jobs for higher profits and start building a new economy for the future…
Times change, our society has to change too.
Our country “produces” next to nothing now, thanks to corrupt unions forcing our jobs overseas. How are you going to force people to “back away” from consumerism? Sounds pretty fascist to me.
I know! Why not force the government to back away from “consumerism” so they will stop consuming our money through taxes.
Aw…how cute. You forgot to change your name when you responded to yourself. Good job trying to make it look like other people on the internet agree with you though.
I think that was a nesting fail, as logically it reads as another response to Dani’s post, as in they posted the first one and then thought of something else.
Um, no, I was actually making an addition to my own post, is that not allowed?
That’s what she was saying, Yikes. Jellyot was just mocking you.
*shakes fist*
Those bastards! Not wanting to agree to work for less than minimum wage like people in third-world countries; what are they thinking?
You really can’t blame overseas outsourcing entirely on unions, although I’ll admit they didn’t adapt well to the late-20th century economic changes.
But still, how do you explain that our country produces nothing these days? No steel? We invented steel. Car industry going bad now… Why? I don’t think anyone wants to work for less than minimum wage but there must be some happy medium.
I suspect it comes down to pure profit motivation on the company’s part combined with the natural tendency of consumers (and I sadly include myself here) to buy the less expensive product.
The wage issue stems in part from the fact that in our country, we expect to have and maintain a MUCH higher standard of living than people in a lot of countries, which means we need to be paid more to be content.
Beyond the wage issues, however, are the facts that many countries don’t have the health and safety or environmental regulations that we do, which can make some big differences in profit margin. (Hey, when you injure or kill one of the workers over there, it’s just not as big a deal financially.)
I suspect (but I’m no expert) that there’s tax issues involved, too.
Those are very good points, maybe a little protectionism on our governments part could have saved some of our industries. Backing off on taxes may have helped. But you have to admit that the unions, once we did away with child labor and improved safety issues, all good things, became very corrupt wanting more and more concessions from businesses. Unions, like governments puff themselves up with dues and taxes and end up becoming something they were not intended to be in the first place. Our country used to be the home of innovation and invention, yankee ingenuity as they used to say. All seems to be gone, now a “service” economy. Although everywhere I go service seems to s*ck.
Everybody wants more than they’ve got; it’s human nature as well as the root of capitalism!
Bear in mind that during Industrial Revolution times, working conditions in plants here were fairly dangerous and low-paying, too….that’s how we climbed to the top in manufacturing in the first place.
Oh, tell me about it! It’s always amazing when I have the occasion to deal with someone in a customer service position that’s actually competent and pleasant. Doesn’t seem like it should be that much of a rarity.
Overall, I’m not sure what the answer is, but I suspect trying to revitalize the manufacturing segment in the US may be beating a dead horse. We need to either find some other economic niche we’re good at (other than consuming!) or face the grim reality that we’re going to have a lot of unemployed people on a regular basis from now on.
Well, I tend to disagree with you about how we climbed to the top. We invented manufacturing for the most part, that’s how we climbed to the top. Another economic niche would be nice, I don’t think the whole “green” thing is going to cut it, but we can all hope. Maybe someone will come up with something good.
Our biggest export seems to be entertainment, but I’m not sure how we can expand on that any more than we have.
And I suspect we’re both right in part as far as how the US got to the top in manufacturing; we’d probably have been at the top even without the exploitation of workers and laying waste to the land, but the bigshots at the top would have profited less overall from it.
What we need is something new. Something where the raw product is found in North America and we come up with a way of processing it or using it to produce something that other countries also need.
Legislating that we have to find something new and the ways in which we will find something new is not the way (for example, legislating through the “green bill” that we HAVE to find sources for wind, solar, and other energies aren’t going to make those things happen). You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the profit margins. Nothing will come out of saying that we *need* to do a particular thing until that particular thing is profitable for someone making it. Right now, wind, solar, and other green resources are not profitable, so no one wants to get into that money pit. (the main reason they’re not profitable is because we’re trying to take a diffuse source and turn it into a concentrated source, which costs more money that it produces. Not feasable)
Having been in customer service for a while, I can tell you that there are good days and bad days. While I agree with you that someone working with people should be as pleasant as possible, the number of nidnuks you have to deal with on a daily basis just torpedo your good mood out of the water, and you tend to take it out on the next people in line.
-
Working in HR does the same thing to you.
I’ve worked retail and food service as well as being a racetrack cashier, and on my worst days I never sank to the semiverbal, bovine-stared, resentful level of many of the fast food workers I see in the drive-throughs. Also, many of them seem to be sadly confused by even basic math. To be fair, I will say that I also see relatively normal people in cs jobs, and the occasional excellent ones.
I’ve never worked in fast food, but it has to be mind-numbing. You’re working with the worst of the worst a lot of times, along with trying to deal with crappy customers and no pay…..I don’t envy anyone who does that.
-
My experience in customer service was working the register at a grocery store before getting promoted to the service desk. It all sucked. You’d get some really nice people through there that would brighten up your day, only to be shot down by the next ten people in line who can’t seem to understand that an order costing $10 isn’t covered by a $5 bill and 2 ones.
-
HR just makes you lose your faith in humanity, because you’re necessarily dealing ONLY with the bad people at work. The good ones you never see, because there is no reason for them to come to HR.
I haven’t done fast food either, but my summer job during college was 7-eleven cashier. Minimum wage, and the boss screwed us over on overtime, plus we never got those legally mandated breaks. Made me into one of those people who tries to be nice to customer service types…
I’ve really strived to be someone who does well as far as customer service goes for two reasons:
1. I feel bad if I upset a customer.
2. I’m not a hypocrite if I get upset over bad customer service.
If you’re a jackass in your customer service position, I think you give up the right to be upset when someone is a jackass to you.
Depressing much? :/
our society will change as soon as people realize that they will be the ones who have to pick up the shovels and start digging our way out of this. your utopian society lacks one point, if we start doing things ourselves at the standards of pay we’re used to then our costs will go up and we will be poorer than we were before. is that what you want?
.
and here’s a great quote for you:
.
in any agenda, political or otherwise, there is a cost to be borne. always ask what it is, and who will be paying. if you don’t, the person expected to bear the cost will be you. and you may not have what it takes to pay.
here’s the full quote…
.
In any agenda, political or otherwise, there is a cost to be borne. Always ask what it is, and who will be paying. If you don’t, then the agenda-makers will pick up the perfume of your silence like swamp panthers on the scent of blood, and the next thing you know, the person expected to bear the cost will be you. And you may not have what it takes to pay.
-quellcrist falconer
things i should’ve learned by now Vol. 2
I’m confused, which “worst” President are we talking about? Taft? Hayes? That damnable Whig Harrison? The war-mongering racist Wilson? Or that indecisive (Seriously, you’re a Democratic-Republican? You can’t just make a decision and pick a side?) ninny Monroe? I’m going back to sleep until my free health care kicks in and I get appointed Assistant Secretary of the Department of General Motors.
Carter?
The Harding administration was corrupt to a level that amazes me.
Use of the word “invest” is a fail.
Obama is almost just like Bush. We got a Bush 3rd term.
No kidding, it’s not the governments job to “invest” our money. This is getting ridiculous.
Change in topic: who wants cookies?
Eric: Agree another Lol fail? This seems trollish? We had a nice break for a while of not Bush bashing anbd not Obama idiolization (which this does both). We know Bush not best president, but did prevent any more attacks, but had some AWEFUL policies. Obama will not be accepted by conservative America b/c we do not like big government and he’s expanding the role of the federal government exponentionally. I personally think Obama is not following the constitution with his larger government, and I feel the moderates will speak in 2012. But we will disagree, which makes this country better, but I see parallels to Obama and Carter and from Carter we got Reagan. So I can take three and a half years of Obama for another Reagan.
You have cookies!?!?? *perks up*
I think I need to go get lunch.
Of course not! I was hoping Jane would have some. I’m a cookie mooch, I admit it.
Well, crap. Guess I’ll actually have to go get lunch, then.
Sorry about that, but cyber cookies really aren’t that filling anyhows. And most cyber cookies carry spyware or viruses.
Huh? Why am I being brought into it? I must be popular. That’s cool.
Well, since you asked, yeah, it’s a LOL fail. I didn’t think it was funny, and I knew it was going to create a huge left vs. right battle. When I first got online this afternoon and saw it already had almost 300 responses, I wasn’t surprised. And as I tend not to be motivated enough to research sources, I tried to stay out of arguments that would require me to cite a source hoping either for common knowledge arguments or common sense ones. LOL
Eric, check out my second-to last bash on the SPECIAL thread. Not the one I just responded to, the one right here? {http://punditkitchen.com/2009/07/05/political-pictures-kim-jong-il-hawaiian-president/#comment-186267}
I bring you into it, b/c you saved me from the Trollish lifestyle!!!!
Plus you’re the champion of Troll bashing and this LOL was a Troll (at least in my eyes).
I think there could have been so much wittier lines to this picture…. but oh well could be worse. Could of not been funny and positive to Republicans *GASP* the HORROR!!
Yeah, this LOL made me wonder if the admins just enjoy seeing us all go at each other’s throats. Preachy LOLs just don’t really appeal to me. They don’t bring the funny at all.
Exactly, Eric. It’s supposed to go like this:
We bring the preachy, especially trolls who think they’re right, Tyler brings the extra preachy, and splits the troll-bashing with Eric. Oh, and the LOLZ are supposed to bring teh funneh. I mean, there are so many funny ones on the upcoming page that never make it through.
so nice to see that some people on the internet still have some common sense.
It’s very nice to see. Too bad I never see it.
I’ve already had a horrible day. I don’t feel like internet fighting after I’ve spent to morning fighting University Bureaucracy. So, for everyone in need of a break I give you a funny, albeit OT, video. Linkety Link!
Aww, Donkey Balls! That didn’t work. Let’s try again.
Huzzah!
<3 janie and College Humor.
At my bookstore job when it was still staffed with cool people we used to do Friday Night Mad Libs. I would conduct a Mad Libs game over our headsets. One of my ex coworkers posted that video on my facebook to remind me of that. Speaking of which, I have to go make some tea before I head to said bookstore to work until 3 in the morning. *grumble grumble*
I wish you pleasant and interesting customers tonight!
I wish you HAWT customers to look at tonight!
Ooo–that too!
Sorry, no customers at all. It was after hours store relay. Although I did ditch out early.
*enjoys break and tosses down smoke pellet thus vanishes*
DWN! Hi! *waves stupidly at computer monitor*
what? gone so quick?!
My! People come and go so quickly here!
Be the worst president in US history by nationalizing banks and auto companies, praising and “working with” appalling dictators, and being the first Entertainment Tonight president?
But if you free more than 50 million people from two of the worst totalitarian regimes and history, and guide your country through the aftermath of the worst terrorist attack anyone has yet seen, you’re a fascist?
Gotta love this country….
let me fix that 2nd graf for you:
..
But if you free more than 50 million people from two of the worst totalitarian regimes that your Vice President, your father and his predecessor helped build up in the first place and half-assedly guide your country through an act of terrorism that took place while you were just getting back from one of your record-breaking number of vacations you’re an incompetent?
Uh-huh. Let us utterly ignore the Cold War, Iran’s totalitarian regime, and countless other issues…because it’s just too damn complicated, and we can’t be bothered to
LEARN.
Instead, we mindlessly parrot the thoughts and opinions of others, and never, ever bother to find out things for ourselves.
sigh
I didn’t know Bush supporters were real o.0
Don’t be a jackass.
.esoprup no t’nsi sihT ?sdrawkcab si gnipyt ym yhw wonk esle enoynA
.hu
!etinu s’cirE
Eric, I love you. That was fun to read.
!ETINU S’CIRE
Or rather, :
!ETINU S’RELYT
That was the weirdest thing that’s ever happened to me on the Internet.
Well, no, I take that back. It’s not even in the top 20.
But it’s the weirdest thing that’s happened to me today on the Internet.
That was 100% unintentional. As I typed in the words they came out right to left. I almost wish it would do it again. It was both annoying and kinda cool.
Wait, what? REALLY?!
I thought you were kidding!
It was a very, very bizarre glitch, but once I closed out my browser and restarted it, it was all better. I can’t type backwards like that. I’d get a headache. It was hard enough to get my e-mail right in the reply box. LMAO
.ciffiret si tahT
By the way, thanks for the new ybboh. My old one used to be thinking on the flip side of the keyboard, so “Monk” would be “Cwvd”, and the A used to stay A, along with the Z and X and B. because those have no opposites on the keyboard. So ygavd twr Iwed! (Thank you, Eric!)
ZOMG! You have been infiltrated by teh terrists!! Quick, toss the evil box out the door!!!!!!11!elebinty!!!
Oh great, now Osama has been using my computer when I’m not home. What an asshole.
Wow, this one filled up fast…
Be the worst president in history by firebombing every orphanage and elderly care building in the country, institutionalizing ivory and lion pelts as the new currency system, putting crippling taxes on people who don’t eat their own young, and creating a giant shield around the sun so that light can be taxed.
Cue people comparing this to past or current presidents in 3…2…1…
tacomagic if you ever enter politics on that platform. You’ve got my vote.
Same. Not really, but you would be a HILARIOUS candidate.
I exist only to make the other candidates look better. A tough job, but somebody’s gotta do it… and by that I mean Perot isn’t running anymore.
Oh snap!
You forgot the three hundrd workers standing in a field blowing to turn a Wind Turbine for those 25 Watts of electricity. Not only creating jobs, but also being Green.
Right, we can afford to pay them 3 cents an hour too!
Which will help them afford the 4 cents per hour breathing tax. I mean really, they breath so much more than everyone else, why shouldn’t we tax their air intake?
I think I’ll call my platform the “Destructionalist Movement”. If elected I will rename the Whitehouse: “Latveria” and get a white cat to stroke during my press conferences.
Yes, lovely and liberal. Now something on the other side of the spectrum, please.
I can’t remember the last time something conservative has been put up on this site. I’m on the verge of considering this site 2nd most liberal to MSNBC’s homesite.
Ah, the wonders of democracy, eh? Damn them.
Stoopid Pundit Kitchen, be more funny!
*sigh* Agreed.
Is your avatar The Stig? Coolness.
Yeah! You tell ‘em!
(((((((((((NOTE OF THE CREATOR)))))))))
I guess the main point of the picture worked: Shake people a little and have an inside opinion of things and not just what the medias wants us to see, here in Canada.
blame canada!
Why blaming Canada? All we have in our medias concerning America comes from… America, of course.
It seems that everything’s gone wrong
Since Canada came along…
And honestly, it’s as divided as I expected.
You are indeed correct Marts, its something Ive noticed as of late ever since my hiatus on PK here ended. This place used to be a schism in time, where left and right, democrat and republican, kicked back, discussed, joked, debated, and bashed trolls with a laid back political background. It was nice, but recently the rancor from both sides has become unbearable, there’s so much foaming at the mouth I cant tell which sides its coming from.
Residents of PK, regulars, semi regulars and new folks, can we please all try to pull our underwear out of our cracks… untwist and replace them?
I know this is all very Rodney King-ish, but when did we stop getting along?
Shut up, you dirty fascist communist!
Goddammit! You dont need to own things and pay for stuff! We can helps you be more soshulistik and kommunistik!
What’s good for Haliburton is good for America.
NOBAMA OSAMA BIN BAMA NO SOCIALISM NO NO NO DON’T TOUCH ME THERE
why are you alive?
Huh?
He’s joking about Republicans.
Accuracy FAIL!
Explanation as to why graph is fail FAIL!
Oh, and I think I can see what you mean. Washington was clearly the worst, Bush only came in second. I mean, Washington was born in a British colony!
Graph? You mean LOL? Why yes, Tyler, I do. Why are you so stupid, Tyler?
Why, I simply don’t know? It’s utterly inexplicable? Completely.
(I talks to myself.)
And everyone the interwebz hears you! Muah!
Oh god… everyone on*
Methinks mebrains be malfunctioning.
How I do love to bash the random trolls.
Bringing under government purview (we got a pamphlet from GM saying that as a “current or former customer, the warranty on your vehicle is now backed by the United States Government”) =/= investing.
Former customer? You mean the government will me pay for repairs on that Chevy I owned two vehicles ago?
Humor FAIL.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like intentionally divisive LOLs?
nope. there’s a lot of us who like to laugh, the problem is there are about ten times more people who think it was a good lol simply because they agree with the politics behind it…
Yes, the bobbleheads, I call ‘em.
Yeah, well, I agree with the politics behind it, and I thought it was a pretty crappy LOL. If it’s preachy, 95% of the time it’s not funny. Even if I agree with its message.
So, all you Bush-bashers:
I’m not exactly a fan of Bush, but the only thing about Iraq that was mishandled is that Russia, France, Germany, and the UN Secretary-General were hip-deep in corruption in the Oil-for-Food program, and illegal sales of war materiel to Iraq DURING the sanction period after 1991, and REFUSED to act on the repeated sanction violations; as acting on them would have cost them billions.
Of course, acting on them timely would have also saved more Iraqi lives than lost since 2003, and saved thousands of children from a prison where children were held for purposes of blackmailing their parents, or just punishing the parents THROUGH heinous acts committed on the children.
Bush used the wrong arguments to go to war in Iraq – but, it had to be done, had actually been REQUIRED by SH’s repeated violations of the UN mandates passed in 1992-1995 (but ignored), and SHOULD have been done in 1995! PERIOD.
Perhaps you all need to actually look at the events of the time period BEFORE Bush was elected WITHOUT trying to put everything through the “Bush is Satan” lense.
And, for those of you trying to make arguements for the Honduran dictator wanna-be, their constitution isn’t our constitution. Their constitution was followed to the letter, including his attempt to set himself up as permanent leader being rejected by their Supreme Court, and their legislature doing their equivalent of impeachment, before ordering the military (also, as outlined in their constitution) to remove the now-former president from office.
Many of you cried for Bush to be impeached – had Bush refused to leave office, wouldn’t you have done the SAME THING as Honduras to get rid of him, had he refused to surrender office after impeachment?
This whole section of failblog reeks with liberal hypocracy, to this libertarian.
(and, I won’t even get started on how many illegal seizures of powers that are the states, or the congress’, or not possible at ALL under the constitution, that Obama’s done, because I know that the truth on that matter won’t ever reach through the thick skulls of you true believers, until one of his actions sucker-punches you).
amen.
This isn’t a section of failblog. Failblog is an offshoot of ICHC, much like PK is. They’re part of the same organization, to be sure, but in no way is this site part of/related to Failblog.
By the way, you’re being a prejudiced asshole. Just saying, I don’t think your skull is exactly thin enough to take a hint anyway, judging by the fact that you say “because I know that the truth on that matter won’t ever reach through the thick skulls of you true believers, until one of his actions sucker-punches you” To all of us here. So please, I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not going to really hear you until you stop acting like a pretentious idiot.
no obama, you stupid fu*k, what makes you a communist is your ‘change’ that is basically a nice mix of communism and socialism.. neither of them we want nor need.
No, Boink, what makes you an idiot is that you obviously don’t know what communism really is. I may not agree with Obama, but at least I’m not such a jackass that I don’t need to scream “OMG COMMUNISSSSTTT!!!11!!” To make his opinions seem invalid. You should at least argue his politics and opinions on specific issues, rather than calling names and thinking that makes you right and him wrong.
fail by ignorant youths who know nothing of politics……
Fail by old people who don’t believe young people can be correct once or twice…. Plus the fact that this board is filled with people like Eddie, 50, Eric, ?, Viking Gal, 58, Charlie, (I’m going to guess somewhere around or above 60), etc. Not EVERYONE here is as much of an “ignorant youth” as me, you know.
I’m well past the dark side of 50, so let’s just say 50-ish.. Charlie is younger than me, so I’m guessing around 48 or so.. Eric, I’m going to take a stab at 27. The real point you make is that age isn’t really a factor as we are all over the spectrum here.
Damn. Blargh.
(Eddie, do you feel happy if Charlie looks sixty in Janie’s picture of him?)
I think of Eric somewhere between 27 and 34, too.
Sorry about butchering your age.
That’s ok because I get told all the time I don’t look it (as well as act it at times). At least I’ll look mah-ve-lous when I hit 70!
PSSTTT… Again came back, Eddie!
THE FU(K? WHERE???
*was just leaving but caught this*
Down below, second-to-bottom comment.
Innocuous little McRant, fortunately.
You covered it nicely.
Toodles.
Yeah, I saw.. to be honest, I just don’t think I have the energy to take him on.. But, let’s see how it plays out.
How did you like Deep Thought’s article on bearded clams? I thought it was hilarious.
Tyler, I may be old, but I ain’t that old.
Ditto! You added 14 years to my wisdom and experience!
To be fair, you guys all look 16 years older to me, for some reason.
Age adds these layers of trivia and history which clutter up our speech. You’ll get there in time!
-Giggles and rolls around happily like a four-year-old-
well, minus the senior moments, of course.
I’m well past the senior mom.. uh, what was I saying again?
That’s not a senior moment, Eddie. Happens to me all the time
Tyler, senior moments and ADHD can appear rather similar at times.
.yakO
-Continues running in circles-
Eddie, I wish I was still 27. But I’m not too far past it. I’m a very old 31. LOL
I’d give parts of my body to be 31 one again.. only now, not then..
And I’m 45.
Yum COUGAR!!! I mena hey Diss!!!
Lol…:-)
So then they are not talking about you, but talking about the people who don’t know crap. Come to think of it most youth don’t know crap. There are exceptions, I know. I hope you are one.
There is a huge difference between communism and socialism. I hate completely ignorant LOLZ. Look it up in Wikipedia for crying out loud before you say something even more stupid.
On the rest of this thread, Tara, they’ve been calling him both. That’s why it’s here, because people DO call him a communist. I’ve heard people say it. :/
Frankly, I don’t think Obama is either. What he’s been proposing does have more governmental control, but it’s still far, far from socialism and light years away from communism. The way big business controls this nation, there’s no way in hell communism would ever come close to happening here.
Eric: Obama’s prucahsing of Banks and GM, and his “original” health care ideas had strong socialistic tendacies. The liberal agenda in this country is very pro Big Government (not necesarily socialist) with heavy socialistic tendacies. The problem is that Americans equate Socialism and Communism as Big Government, which this Administration has really REALLY embraced.
It’s nowhere near socialism. Seriously. It might have a hint of socialism to it, but nothing more.
When government owns private industry it really doesn’t get more soicalistic. But eh… I can’t stop them until 2010 mid-term elections. Even my Clintonite wife is getting worried about Obama’s taxes and expansion of the Gevernment.
Hokay. From wiki:
Communism (from Latin: communis = “common”) is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general.
Now, who is it that owns the banks and the car companies since 0bama took office? You did hear about Government Motors, right?
And, who was it started calling 0bama a commie? Oh yeah. It was Pravda, the Russian newspaper.
Obama is the first US President that I am not ashamed to admit to when I am in Europe… And what is soooo wrong with a little socialism anyways? It’s about time we cared for the least among us, or is that too much for you selfish, obese SUV drivers to do?
“selfish, obese SUV drivers”
On the bright side, your post wasn’t just a whining caretroll one this time. Yay. However, attacking everyone on PK was a litttttle bit unnecessary. Who, exactly, do you know on this site is obese or an SUV driver? Thanks for using a weight problem, personality trait, and car choice as insults.
I’m pretty fat, but I own a Hyundai that gets pretty good gas mileage, so it doesn’t apply to me.
Yeah, I’m thin and selfish, and I don’t drive, so it un-applies to me twice as much.
I consider myself average since the average American woman is a size 12 and weights about 160. I, however, drive a Honda Civic. Excellent gas mileage but my windshield is crap.
I’m not obese, unless you’re judging by runway model standards; and my Ford Escape gets the same damn gas milage my old Focus (nicknamed the Ford Fu(kup after it was almost totaled by an idiot broadsiding me, after which nothing worked right anymore!) got.
Everyone’s obese by runway model standards… they just… need a damn sandwich… a crisco and high fructose corn syrup sandwich… EAT IT! STUPID MODEL!
They’re obviously stupid, Maxwell, the body eats the brain cells of someone who starves themselves first, because anyone that would do something like that obviously doesn’t use/need their brain cells.
“What is soooo wrong with a little socialism anyways?”
What’s wrong with it? Besided unconstitutionality? It comes only at the expense of self-government and individual liberty and by the violation of individual property rights. This is not an acceptable state of being and it is incompatible with liberty, full stop. That’s what’s wrong with it.
Obama is a Socialist not a Communist. He will go down as the worst president in the history of the United States. Time is the true measure of a leader. All of you who think he is the second coming of Christ need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid and investigate the truth.
No one here thinks he is the second coming of Christ. Thanks a lot though, because I’ve seen videos of kids with republican parents being told to pray to Pres. Bush.
Maybe, just maybe, Diane can cool down a little? The LOL is in reference to people CALLING him a communist, which is pathetic.
Hmmm…I’ve seen videos of children praying FOR Bush but not TO him. Presidential prayer groups are everywhere.
As for the Christ comparisons, just google Obama and Christ at the same time. There are sites devoted solely for that. Sad to say some people really do think this…
Place a light behind his profile…its a halo. Thank you, media. Halos, droves of followers, drawings of him at the hand of God, paintings of him with a crown of thorns…
Also, it would be unfair to compare Obama to Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc. They had way more experience…
Key word- No one *here*, I.E., on these boards
nah, i prefer Natzi
Tyler, most times I don’t take issue with what you say. But in this case I must. I don’t think I have ever heard of anyone praying to any president, including Bush. Can you provide some source to confirm?
Jesus Camp, Eddie- here’s the first video I found about it on youtube. Although, one of the ladies claims they’re praying *for* bush, just worshiping a cardboard cutout of him. {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu10nxmqskU}
Sorry, that’s just a quick source of the bit I saw, you can look harder on “Jesus Camp, pray to bush, children” etc
Granted, I don’t take this as a majority. A tiny, tiny, tiny majority of a tiny group of wingnuts would do something like put their kids in front of George Bush’s cutouts and tell them to pray, either for OR to him. Oh well. :/
Majority? The second time you said it, Tyler, you clearly meant Minority. Touche, Tyler. Yes, I’m nearly always correct. Ah, is that what vindicates you in correcting my mental slip-ups, Tyler? Yes, you schizophrenic freak.
Ok, but I think we can agree that Jesus Camp is not really your run of the mill Republican. If you can find instances outside of Jesus Camp, then you may have my interest.
Oh, I know. No sane general Republican would do that, Eddie. That’d be…. I dunno what to call it. Just saying, 99.99% of people who like Obama don’t think he’s the second coming of Christ, and that same .01% exists with Bush, too. :/
Dude living in DC, I was here during the inauguration (stayed home though since the WHOLE HIGHWAY 10 MILES was closed), but the week up to and during the Obama fans were rabid. They were treating him like the second coming. He stopped in at the Five Guys (GREAT hamburger joint), cut me in line too (Bastard), and the crowd swarmed and cheered and I saw one woman faint. Come on now, if that isn’t treating Obama as the second coming…….
Not funny, completely divorced from reality – epic fail. Send in the fail boat.
I’ll agree with Anniee. This one is a fail. It’s really preachy and not funny. What happened to the LOLs that were actually LOLs???
Feel that, the Earth stopped moving!!! Eric and Annie aggrees!! **Looks up to see if comet is smashing into Earth**
It’s happened before. It’ll happen again. It happens.
calling him a commy is a bit nuts… he just wants to socialise us and help the poor people who made the choices that led to being poor get the same privileges as me.
Yeah, like being born to a poor family in a bad neighborhood. Geez, talk about poor life choices.
I know, like, how could you be so stupid as to *choose* not to be privileged and live in a crappy place where it’s nearly impossible to get a good education? Sheesh, how stupid a decision THAT was.
BTW, in case anybody wants to think that living in the wrong neighborhood doesn’t have an influence on the education you get:
Me: grew up in nice suburb of St. Louis, went to one of the better schools in the area, got very good grades and got a full ride to Truman State University
My wife: grew up in crappy suburb of St. Louis, went to a lousy school with a sad curriculum (I was taking Algebra in the 8th grade. You had to be advanced to take Pre-Algebra in the 8th grade in her school), got even better grades than me, but only got a partial scholarship and had to take out massive amounts of loans. She’s waaaaaay smarter than me, I might add.
The point? I got lucky because I went to a better public school than she did, even though she did much better in school and is way smarter than me.
Yes, I know, it’s anecdotal, but it happens for sure.
{http://punditkitchen.com/2009/07/05/political-pictures-kim-jong-il-hawaiian-president/#comment-186267}
You likie the bash, Eric?
I enjoyed it immensely.
How do european countries manage to have both higher median earnings and better social services than america?
I used to feel ok because I thought americans had less social goods but they earned more, until I found out it wasn’t true.
I would guess they also pay higher taxes. I believe, and I can certainly be wrong, Sweden has a 60% tax burden, whereas in the U.S. it’s around 38% (depending on salary of course). As for the earnings, you also have to take into consideration the exchange rate. I can’t speak for europe, but the exchange rate between the U.S. and Austalia is currently around .80 on the dollar. For example, if I earn $60k a year in Australia, that is only $47k a year in U.S. dollars. If I earn $60k in Germany, that’s only $42k in U.S. dollars. I think you will find that for the most part, wage earners in skilled jobs generally earn more than their european conterparts. But again, I could be wrong.
I should add that the informatoin on exchange rates was pulled from [www.xe.com]
There are a few professions where average earnings are higher in the US. Not many though.
Only really the law, academia and assosciated areas (lobbying etc).
Where the US does do better is on housing costs and the price of consumer goods. That doesn’t make up the gap for median earners though when you take into account US health care and education costs.
The top 10% (one definition of middle class) does better in the US.
The top 3-1% it doesn’t matter, you mostly escape taxation no matter where you live.
The government taking over private buisness. Deciding how much private citizens can be paid. Firing CEOs. Destroying the coal industry. Raising taxes for 100% after 95% were suppose to get tax cuts.
Spineless stance to world leaders that continue to speak out against our country.
Still not sure he’s as bad as Carter but he’s working on it.
I lived through Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and now. This is already WAY worse than Carter – though the effects have not really hit yet. Carter didn’t even *attempt* the f*ckery that this one has already signed into law and the results are entirely predictable. Jobs are already being lost at record (historic!) rates; when the rest hits, people are going to be spinning around screaming and not knowing who to blame. We will know, of course.
Saddam Hussein?
Hey, it worked for the last guy.
Another thing, I’m sick of the Obama worship this website has. Obama the Messiah and Michelle is like the second coming of Princess Diana. Please get real.
Obama is ruining this country…all you people who haven’t seen the real ‘change’ he talked about, youre in for some big surprises…because of you we’re stuck with him for 4 years…Bush wasn’t stupid enough to bow to another country’s king…that’s a start…
You mean, he showed a shred of respect for another country’s supreme ruler/decision maker that is higher in rank, in that country, than any president would? /gasp. Showing respect to other cultures and people is part of the job, diplomacy isn’t a sign of submission, it’s a sign of tact.
And I’m really glad you can cite sources and give logical reasons for all your arguments.
Tyler, we fought and many people shed their blood in the Revolutionary war for the idea – for the TRUTH – that all men are created EQUAL and that no man should have to bow before kings, despots and tyrants. I realize that idea has kind of gone out the window in this country in the last 70 years or so, but nonetheless some of us still believe that all men are created equal and that we do not have to bow and scrape to any man. Some of us would still rather shed our own blood.
Anniee, I understand where you’re coming from, but here’s my problem with that argument- Obama wasn’t FORCED into bowing, therefore, at least in my mind, he did it out of respect for another world leader. Doesn’t that make sense too?
It makes it that much more disturbing that he did it because he wanted to. To kneel before a despot king the way he did was creepy as hell, especially when he sure didn’t show the same respect for the Queen of England, who isn’t a despot.
Obama is trying to repair relations with the rest of the world, not alienate us even more than we already have. Just because we’ve convinced ourselves we’re the good guys doesn’t mean we should scream “We’re better than you, so fvck off!!” to those we don’t like.
And what secret, vile plans have you stumbled across that Obama is secretly, deviously plotting? Please tell us, and make sure to cite your sources properly. Paranoia is not a source, btw.
He’s redoing the White House in pastels.
Aw hell everyone knows pastels are the gateway to socialistic interior design! We’re screwed!
You know who else liked pastels? HITLER!!!!!!!
I hear the Antichrist will like them too.
According to some pastors, he’s already come though.
Tyler you just repeated what I said. Obama’s redoing the White House in pastels!!!! D’OH!!!
I really wish people would stop throwing Communism around in regards to President Obama.
Calm down, I’m not on his side, It’s just that he is far more Socialist than Communist. There is a difference.
There have been moves that ring of Communism, but most of those have been as a result of the previous administrations’ leftover messes.
His stance is clearly closer to Socialism- as evidenced by his insistence upon Government Healthcare. This has long been a dream of the Democratic party, it’s a great way to win votes- considering the percentage of the population that cannot affor…
I’m done… rant is coming on…. must fight… the…urge…
Fact of the matter is that Obama is more Socialist than Communist. If you disagree, bring your facts and references, `cause you’re gonna need.
Liberals don’t believe in using facts and references, it is strictly what a person (or celebrity) thinks is true, than that is the truth. Or “it’s the thought that counts” applied in a different context just as all words and their meanings must be easily changed to fit the current agenda or times. A person that changes the facts and references by using mere words is a person of true leadership quality. For example: if someone were to say “it’s all Bush’s fault” with the proper tone of voice and a convincing look, then it becomes Bush’s fault. This is especially true when if comes to the benefit of the country. The facts and references (although rarely used) must be changed or modified to accommodate the updated more modern truth. Math is a bit trickier for the liberal, a billion is a extremely large number, 1000 times a billion is a trillion which is astronomically larger and almost incalculable number. The liberal cannot deny that 1,000,000,000,000 is larger than 1,000,000,000, however they can drastically decrease the difference between the two by saying it just a few more zeros.
The person who bashes either side without consideration that they might be right even in one single instance is an idiot. That’s my philosophy. You know, I don’t like Liberal extremists either, but I also hate Conservative extremists. It’s not the end of the world if your side is wrong once or twice or if the other side is right now and then, so don’t go pointing out EVERY instance the other side has been wrong, exaggerating it, ignoring the times they’ve been right, exaggerating the times your side has been right, and ignoring the times your side has been wrong. Is it too much to ask to flipping listen to what the bill is instead of just listening to “Sponsored by the Democratic party” or “Sponsored by the Republican party?”
And by the way Puppetmaster, you do realize that you’ve just went and STARTED a whole conservative vs. liberal debate? The person you replied to wasn’t taking sides, and he even cut himself off to avoid starting up a whole argument. Also, he had a great point, and Socialism isn’t a type of government, it’s a type of trade, a difference from Capitalism. It’s not at all bad to have a bit of Socialism in this country either, a little bit of equal benefit is quite nice. I also noticed that despite having responded to this person’s comment just minutes before I responded to yours the first time, you haven’t responded. Yes it seems the best way to stun a pundit is to argue for neutrality, I guess they don’t see it coming at all… Now if you’ll excuse me, the following is obligatory:
NOBODY expects the neutralist inquisition!!!
“It’s not at all bad to have a bit of Socialism in this country either”
Who in the F*CK told you that? Paul Krugman? Are you mental? Have you ever read the constitution? Do you have the SLIGHTEST sense of property rights or individual liberty whatsoever?
You BET any bit of socialism in this country is bad and some of us will fight it to the death. To. the. death. Go ahead and call it good anyway; it doesn’t matter. When the blood runs in the streets we’ll see, won’t we?
Holy shit, Anniee. Bad day?
It’s always a bad day when morons go around proclaiming that socialism is a good thing.
True, but what I’m trying to say is that right there it sounded like you were going to come to my house in the night and cut my limbs off and enter guerrilla warfare mode in about 10 seconds. O.O
Thats strange… here in America, Anniee, its a good day when people toss out an opinion of what they like and dislike when it comes to our country… I mean its even in the constitu-
Oh but I forgot, your constitutional laws that you so fervently like to remind us the Obama is destroying, only apply to your free speech, your rights, and your pursuit of happiness… Silly me.
Wrongo – and what a dumb thing to say. Socialism involves FORCE – or do you think those goods and money get distributed voluntarily by good Samaritans? Unlike a socialist, **I** am not trying to FORCE anything upon anyone; it is the statist, the socialist, who is advocating coercion on me and everyone else. Therefore, the bad day occurs when socialism/statism/FORCE is advocated against me and all other unwilling participants as opposed to what I am content to do – live and let live. This is not rocket surgery, my friend.
Oh I’m so sick of hearing about the fvcking constitution. It’s super freaking old and was designed for a country a tiny fraction the size of this one. Our nation has evolved. Maybe the constitution should too. Forms of government don’t last forever. Frankly, a form of government that looks to benefit ALL people sounds pretty good to me.
The main problem I have is that Anniee keeps talking about fighting to the death about this. To. The. Death. and it kind of worries me, cause some days, she sounds like she’s going to head for the mountains and start a guerrilla-style war with the government by taking out all of the liberals on PK with her bare hands then retreating to the mountains.
I’m not entirely serious about the guerrilla warfare bit, that’s hyperbole, but sheesh, sometimes Anniee talking about fighting to the death for her civil liberties makes me worry about our safety.
To. The. Death. Can you picture DEFENSE? Because that IS what I’m talking about. Ok? Defense. When your feds are at MY door trying to force me. So long as you do not come to my door you are in no danger from me. No one is. Ok hon?
-Gulp- Okay.
But can you pretttyyy please not say “to the death” quite so often? It’s a little worrying to us more pacifistic types, who, even when interested in fighting back, prefer not to do it with violence. :/
Oh please. Like they’d have to come to your door. If socialism ever took over (which it won’t, maybe a hint of it, but nothing more), the government already has your number and can do pretty much what it wants. We all know the government could easily take over our lives if it really wanted to.
Feds are already knocking on doors in Houston rounding up guns. Obama’s goon squad is knocking on doors trying to get people to sign a pledge and mapping out dissent. Shreveport Louisiana they’re stopping cars with NRA stickers and confiscating legally owned guns. And if you live in England you live with a ceaseless stream of door-knocking – everything from telling you how to use your leftovers to check that you are raising your baby in an approved manner. Ask Randy Weaver about people coming to the door and get back to me, fool.
Cite that doesn’t come from Hannity or any other pro-gun site.
Oh, and I asked my English boyfriend about your claims of constant door-knocking and he said he doesn’t know what you’re talking about.
But when you asked him, did he have to say “Excuse me, I’ll be right back, seems to be someone at the door…”?
He said he couldn’t talk long because there were raids being done in his building…apparently due to misuse of leftovers. Kids these days. They learn these things from their friends…
Why the do some “conservatives” choose it ignore/disbelieve facts that don’t gel with their world view then?
e.g. just about every economic statistic comparing the US with other parts of the developed world?
That would be nationalism, very little to do with political parties actually, I’m sure you’ll find that just about every citizen of USA thinks it’s the best country in the world, with the exception of the minorities that hate it, but it’s a good sign we have those since typically the only countries that don’t are communist. Anyways, as I said that has quite little to do with political parties. Unless a citizen of the US has something big against America, they probably think it’s the best country in the world. (Probably being the key word)
I don’t mean the subjective sense that your country is the bestest.
I mean believing that the america’s lack of a social safety net and healthcare drives the economy (somehow)… so you have to deny/disbelieve when other countries have higher GDPs per capita without the ugly side of america.
I think it’s a conservative thing to believe the economy needs to be driven by fear (for the their chosen underclass) and will to power (for whatever chosen group they consider themselves to be part of).
And that’s just plain wrong. Fear of poverty does not drive economic success, theres no support in reality to draw that kind of thinking.
Good god… this picture is rather true…
Speaking as someone who likes to call himself an “extreme neutralist” (translation: I flipping hate extremists) I just find it idiotic when people are calling Obama communist. Here’s how the stimulus package works people: Instead of watering the top of the tree, Obama’s got the BRILLIANT idea of watering the roots! So stop flipping complaining and LIVE with it! I don’t care if you like it or not just stop ranting on about how it’s not Democracy. Keep in mind that the senate still has to approve the bills, and guess who chooses the senate??? YES you people!
You got it a little backwards. Congress which is the house and senate writes the bills and Obama as the executive branch approves it by signing it into law.
But yes its the people responsible for putting the idiots in the legislative and executive branch in office in the first place.
However I must disagree with this great idea that apparently Obama is watering the roots. For we got failing companies that need to fail, being supported by the government to continue their failing buisnesses. Their company leaders still employed, unless they are refusing to obey the president(socialism). Its the basic worker that is getting laid off or fired. If cap and trade passes in the Senate and then signed by Obama its going to get a lot worse.
PSST: It’s not really democracy when one party has all the power. It means that about 50% of the population isn’t being represented. That’s not a good thing. Oh and Obama is not watering the roots. He’s taking from the roots of the tree next door to water the tree. PSST I didn’t choose this senate or this President, I voted the other way. So don’t say “you people”.
Well said, really.
we have become a country of idiots , that’s they are we following this idiot. It will lead to our demise.
Would it help if american politics had more options than just Republicans/Democrats? At least then the ‘They are EVIL. Therefore, you must vote for us.’ approach would lose some of its impact.
I believe it was George Washington who said we could not survive as a 2 party system. I’m proud of anyone that votes their conscience and picks a canidate without an elephant or jackass next to their name. Me personally unless there is a true conservative and not a democrat in disguise like McCain is, running next time I will not support the Republicans.
Bush the worst president in US history?
You do not know much about US history. Ever heard of Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, Andrew and Lyndon Johnson, Hoover, Harding, Grant, or Taylor? Carter is debatable, but that’s only because he had one term.
Shoot, Lincoln was guilty of a few of things that Bush gets a lot of flak for.
Bush was a better american president than Pol Pot, I’ll give him that.
wow. very intelligent response
/sarcasm.
How is it an investment to take money from taxpayers and give it to special interests? That ain’t communism. And that ain’t capitalism. It’s just plain stupid.
It’s an investment because BUSH IS A NAZI
Investing is one thing, bankrupting is something completely different. All the high and mighty lofty rhetoric aside if you can’t pay for it then you can’t have it. What burns my biscuits is that those knuckleheads in Washington don’t seem to realize we are in a recession, people are losing jobs by the millions, business income is reduced if they are still in business and as a result the government’s income, our taxes, will be significantly diminished over the next few years making this administrations deficits unbearable. All Washington has t do is look at California to see where they are taking the rest of the USA. Good Gawd people, even the French are telling us we are spensing too much money.
As to the LOL itself,
Which president is he talking about?
FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, Bush, Clinton, and then Bush?
They all fit the bill, some more than others.
Since World War II we haven’t known much peace.
Obviously someone that doesn’t understand or pay attention to basic politics… (no I am no supporting Bush or bashing Obama. Nor am I supporting Obama or bashing Bush. I’m just stating that people today are stupid when it comes to politics. Thank you, that is all.)
Heh, rabid neo-cons are funny.
Heh, trolls are funny.
Whoever said this entire LOL was a troll; that’s about the size of it.
LOL U GUYS, THANKS FOR NOT PAYING ANY ATTENTION.
BY “INVESTING” IN AMERICA, I’VE MANAGED TO MAKE THE RICH PEOPLE RICHER, THE POOR POORER, AND KEPT UNEMPLOYMENT ON A STEADY RISE.
THANKS FOR ELECTING ME! I HOPE TO DO THE SAME IN 2012!
That’s his agenda, and the American public is so stupid they are falling for it
This picture is dead on. See, if he went and killed people and called it a crusade, he’d have people cheering him on (hey Bush, how ya doin?)
This photo was shot just after he found out Chavez was standing him up for their dinner date.
Chavez had another small country to take over.
Obama was sad he didn’t get there first.
Drive-by troll Donkeys Get Bent, however, got there first, took over the country, shot Chavez and saved the Universe, obviously.
Oh, then he took the small country for himself.
Damn! The teleprompter went out again.
Hey asshole, I know that’s your sock. Change your f*cking email if you want to troll, at least do it right and give me more targets to bash.
And just because you get nervous in front of huge crowds doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re talking about.
So you’re making excuses for Bush?
It was mentioned earlier that Bush was very succinct in his delivery when talking about war and terror and weapons of mass destruction.
However, he stammered and yammered when he talked about anything else….and this was universal, teleprompter or no.
Obama falters on any subject off teleprompter.
Also, just because someone believes they know what they are talking about does not mean they do.
Hitler
“Flat Earthers”
Edison (vs Tesla regarding AC vs DC power)
Woodrow Wilson
All thought they knew what they were talking about. Turned out to be dead wrong.
Only history will know for sure. However, I suspect that those that come after us about 40 years from now will look back at us and wonder how a nation so mighty could have been made up of people so stupid.
Hmmm….What countries did we destroy exactly?
Printing and spending trillions on pet pork projects designed to enslave Americans into decades of government slavery, and selling our country to China is considered “investing in our country”?
I agree he acted like an idiot and I didn’t trust him, but if Bush was the worst president ever…why do you have it so good?
I think I love you.
Iraq? Remember that country? Remember how you made it worse for everybody?
Lol, Bush isn’t even close to the worst president the US has had. Whoever says that needs to head back to history class and learn about some of the shitty president’s we’ve had in the past…
shame on whoever uploaded this commie bullshit. the obama bin biden spent a little >$1trillion in 3 months on worthless garbage, yes that’s communism & insane fiscal policies
Using a credit card is not investing
It is if you spend it on things that will help you in the future so your example is not viable. Credit card would be spending on things that aren’t intended to pull future profits. Not saying it will work, just that you don’t often buy stocks with your credit card.
Thanks for playing, though! Oh, and punctuation is important.
As someone commented below: “Investing your own money and taking the risk of failure? That would make you an entepreneur.
Investing other people’s money and then, when that fails, deciding the cure is more of other people’s money…. Well, not necessarily communism, but hardly deserving of defense.”
Not to mention that in this particular case it is outright theft (if not merely newly created/inflated dollars being used) – every dollar of it that is taken from us is taken by force and theft because we did not even have representation on this one. Not a single congressman or senator read this thing before it was RAMMED through the congress/senate (I’m referring of course to porkulus maximus right now) so not only is this theft, it’s theft without representation and how you or anyone can call that investment? Is insane. It’s the opposite of investment. It’s devestment. And it’s designed to destroy an economy, not help it.
So….endorse a bill that makes everyone get health insurance, then the ones that can’t afford it and get fined because they can’t afford it?
The honeymoon is slowly coming to an end, the reality of governing is beginning to hit home. Celebrity just doesn’t cut it when jobs and futures
are at stake. The average lemming is beginning to realize they don’t want to jump over the cliff, it will take time just as Obama’s stimulus will take time, at least that’s his rhetoric. It’s called kick the can down the road. When will we realize that there is no utopia, particularly the way Obama is going about it. There will always be poor, wealthy and rich, three different stratas of society. It took years to get this way and now Barry wants to change it back to everybody being poor, except of course not Obama and Michelle.
I love how just the other day he claimed the stimulus was working exactly as planned. 10 percent (and going up) unemployment was the plan? Even though he swore it wouldn’t go above 8 if we passed his abortion of a bill? But it’s not surprising to those of us who know his radical beliefs – Alinsky, Cloward-Piven – a ten percent and growing unemployment rate being part of his plan is a given when the idea is to break the economy beyond repair in order to take it over more fully, thus eliminating free markets and instituting government controlled markets. Duh. We said all this before he started doing it; people who are just waking up now can frankly screw themselves – they were warned. And those who still haven’t woken up – hopelessly stupid and deserve everything they’re visiting on the rest of us. Too bad we have to go down with the damn ship.
Investing your own money and taking the risk of failure? That would make you an entepreneur.
Investing other people’s money and then, when that fails, deciding the cure is more of other people’s money…. Well, not necessarily communism, but hardly deserving of defense.
all you freeloading, welfare collecting obama supporters can go to hell. what makes me sick is that most of you porchmonkeys dont know anything about him you just voted because he was black.
Just as much as you probably didn’t vote for Obama for the same reason…
you are decieved, that is what you are, he is a socialist. Look a the proof – pushing”his agenda” on all of America. Tax and spend = sending us into a depression. 11% unemployed ??and” more to come”.Giving money to his constituants and totally controlling the Lib media to try to brainwash us.
OPEN YOUR EYES
People who think W was the worst president ever make me LOL. So shortsighted!
LBJ, folks. And President Jesus I (JFK) started Vietnam, which, BTW, killed WAY more American troops than Iraq, in more horrible ways, and was less justified (seeing as how he started it to boost the economy.
What? CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!! *snort*
Oh look, someone who starts an argument that we’ve had above on this page and already rehashed.
And comments without bothering to read the other comments.
How original.
He’s worse he’s a socialist !!!
Open your eyes to what HE is doing, don’t blame it on “W”.
You Lib’s can give up all of your rights and be taxed to death to pay for His “CHANGE”. I’ll fight for my freedom,because you will not.
He isn’t even an American can you say birth certificate ????
Yeah, we can. You’re an idiot.
Go sniff the anal taint of a dolphin, you dumb douche.
We’ve already rehashed ALL of the topics you state here, go back and READ the other threads before this one for reference.
why dont you go eat shit IGOR you sheep
who the “F**K” are you to tell me what to think or do. I don’t have the right to comment.
Your a damn communist .You want everyone to be like and think like you.
Thank God people like you are not in total control yet.
And then who are you to tell others what to do and think?
Investing in your country doesn’t make you a communist. But bailing out private companies with tax dollars only so they can delay bankruptcy, and then buying them out, again with tax dollars, without allowing the people to have any say while simultaneously trying to destroy the best healthcare system in the world and endorsing the idea of take from the rich to give to the lazy IS communism! Deny it and you’re just lying to yourself!
Eh. No. I don’t think any of that is a part of the definition of communism.
it never ceases to amaze me how much you people whine. you whined when Bush was in office and now you have your president and you still whine. i know it sounds cliche – but remember 9/11? yeah…there’s people out there that want YOU dead just because you’re an american. i’d much rather have a guy like Bush for president during a time of war than a pansy who throws up the white flag.
Everyone, please stop this political bickering. We’re on PunditKitchen to laugh, not to criticize each other. We also need to be patient. We can’t expect this to all happen in a flash of a second
Oh, and, in case you’re wondering, I’m an Obama Coalition liberal. Criticize me if you want, call me a wingnut, whatever. I don’t care.
I hate it when people criticize the president (and i mean the current and former presidents). It just shows they don’t have enough integrity to just respect who we, as Americans, elected to guide our country.
This President is by far the WORST, even worse than Carter. He is an empty suit with a big mouth.
Wow, all the nested comments… almost as good as one page on PK that squeezed the nesting so far to the right the words poked out of the boxes even further right
Bush = idiot.
Thanks for the blood and economic destruction. Really appreciate it. Imagine what it would be like if he would have tried to do some good in the world! But of course, he (and his keepers – and many of those posting here) are not interested in that. Once the powers that be found out they could wrap an idiot mouthpiece in an american flag (Reagan) and have you swallow him, it was all downhill. Let’s hope Obama can undo SOME of the damage.
example:
A tree’s a tree. How many more do you need to look at?
Ronald Reagan
Your idiocy is astounding!
Funny thing about most people in here is that they have no political experience with any president before 1992. Every president has had issues during their respective terms. No one seems to be griping about Lyndon Johnson’s involvement in the USS Liberty incident. Or Gerald Ford’s blunder of there not being “Soviet domination of Eastern Europe, and there never will be under a Ford Administration.”
Also a great number of you seem to forget that the president is only one part of the American political system. The president is called the Commander In Chief for a reason. What many seem to forget is that the president cannot spend a dime. Clinton left office with a surplus but people forget that it was during a Republican congress. Bush left office brimming with debt that started when congress went blue.
Finally… Totallytubular… you quote Reagon… he is very quotable. Here are a couple more for you…
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Government always finds a need for whatever money it gets.
Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.
Government’s first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them.
I’ve never been able to understand why a Republican contributor is a ‘fat cat’ and a Democratic contributor of the same amount of money is a ‘public-spirited philanthropist’.
Exactly.
Bush couldn’t speak with or without a prompter. At least the new guy can read and refrains from making up his own words.
Or have I misunderstimated the situation?
If only we had just “surged” earlier in Iraq we could have saved lives. This I also agree with Obama on. I just wish more countries would understand the urgency and relieve us a bit on this.
I don’t know who convinced Zero to not turn tail and run in Afghanistan, but whoever he/she is gets free beer from me for life.
Bush was better off the hip… and that’s where the GOP went wrong… they tried to take something unpolished and present him in a polished manner… nope, I voted for him and still think it was a fail.
It does seem if you take a script away from Obama he has a very tough time.
sorry, but he makes up his own words too… they just don’t get brought up in the media because they like him…
Dems fought against any surge, now or earlier. I’m a blood and guts kind of bloodthirsty Conservative, and I personally think we should have turned both Iraq and Afganistan into parking lots. They need Walmarts over there too.
Wow. Healthy worldview.
I mentioned at some point that if we really wanted to change things in the mideast, rather than bombing them, we should build a lot of Targets, Starbucks, and Taco Bells.
I agree with Afghanistan. Iraq not so much.
Tabouli Bell.
Suicide bombing “Targets”?
No. Build lots of Wal-Marts, not Targets. We would dominate the entire middle east that way. Assuming they didn’t get mad and burn them all to the ground.
Healthy for us and people who don’t want to kill us.
I’d never make it as a public official, which is why I restrict my particular world view to the interwebz
I’m sorry, but if you threaten me or my family or my extended family by way of threatening the nation at large, “shock and awe” in no way describes what I feel should be done to you. I never said it was right, Christian, or very diplomatic, but it is my world view, and I stand by it.
@suicide_blonde “If you think Iraqi civilians are no longer be murdered and raped, you are sadly incorrect.”
So, because Iraq has crime, it’s our fault? Muslim sects don’t get along with each other too well, you know? And although I’m not blaming it entirely on that fact, there are quite a few there, and that is definitely playing a role.
P.S. – Rapes and murders happen here, too.
Not healthy for anyone, actually…
Oh, and link. I guess this kid wanted us dead…
War is hell and no one wants children to die, but don’t blame us for the collateral damage, blame the attackers. They are the ones that are to blame for innocent lives. I am talking about the Taliban and Islamic terrorists like Hamas who hide inside schools and hospitals where innocents tend to be. Then when they are attacked run around screaming about how the US attacks and kills innocent civilians.
Once again….Iraq didn’t attack us.
Yes, and once again, we weren’t fighting the Iraqis. This has been gone over, but we believed that SH had WMDs, he did have some pretty severe weapons and if there were terrorists in the country it would have been very bad for everyone and Bush would have been blamed for not acting. His worst mistake was not winding things up faster.
So…hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died (though we weren’t fighting them), thousands of US troops have died, the middle east is more unstable than it was prior to the occupation, we lost support and respect from many other parts of the world, Osama Bin Laden has never been captured, but had Bush not attacked it would have been worse? Keep thinking that if it makes you comfortable.
Point, set, match, SB.
“but had Bush not attacked it would have been worse?”
Um, when did I say that? I said if it had been true that their were WMDS (which we still don’t know for sure) and terrorists and we had been attacked then Bush would have been blamed. But I do believe Iraq is in much better shape than before and in fact the people in Iran would like to have the same kind of Independence now. I hope they can get it on their own…
there’s quite a few kurdish corpses that will testify that saddam had chemical weapons…
Funny, the Bush administration knew “beyond a shadow of a doubt” that SH had WMDs before we attacked. You’re creating scenarios for what could have happened, rather than address what did happen.
You believe that Iraq is in better shape now than before? On what do you base this belief?
Not just the Bush Administration was convinced of the danger.
For one, the Iraqis are minus one evil dictator and his sons who were torturing and raping citizens to put it simply. They are free now to run their country the way they see fit, I wish them luck with that.
Okay, so people outside the Bush administration who were “convinced” that Saddam Hussein intended to attack the United States using WMDs, and whose conviction led the US to invade Iraq, are just as stupid as the Bush administration. I’m totally comfortable with that.
If you think Iraqi civilians are no longer be murdered and raped, you are sadly incorrect.
At least before they had plumbing and electricity.
No, they aren’t, not anymore than anyone else in a free society is being murdered or raped. That happens in the US too you know.
You are horribly misinformed, yikes.
I don’t even know what else to say after your last post. Shocking.
Link. Baghdad and New Orleans had a similar murder rate in 2008. (And by my estimate — not in the link — you’re only about three times as likely to be murdered in Baghdad as in Chicago.)
“None of this is to suggest that things could be considered safe or normal in Baghdad, where at least 150 people died in a series of bomb attacks over a 24-hour period just last week. None of the world’s most violent cities see carnage like that on a regular basis. And it is safe to assume that virtually no one living in Baghdad feels lucky when considering the situation in Caracas or Cape Town. Many Iraqis still point to the years before the U.S. invasion, when Baghdad had a reputation for some of the safest streets in the Arab world. “In the eyes of the Americans and Europeans, maybe these statistics could be acceptable considering their crime rates,” says Ra’ad Mahmoud, a 51-year-old computer technician and lifelong Baghdad resident. “But for us Iraqis, we never witnessed such crime rates in the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s. We used to have an anti-crime squad. It was one of the most efficient in the Arab world. If there was a killing or a robbery, they captured the culprits within days. But now, we don’t know why people are killed. Is it robbery? Is it revenge? Is it a political quarrel? Or is it to settle old scores? So, the motivations for these crimes are quite different than what we used to witness.”
However, Dhoti, you should probably take into account the massive hurricane that made the sample population much smaller and the fact that there are people struggling to rebuild their lives could cause some of those murders. Also, you should point out that NY’s murder rate was 6 times lower, and Moscow is about 4.5 times lower.
Gee, thanks for reproducing a paragraph I already read and understood, SB! (And without express written consent…uh oh…) I was just introducing some recently published, interesting facts into the discussion; why get so defensive?
Tyler, if the hurricane killed equitably, the population loss shouldn’t factor in. (In fact, given that most of the people who died were poor residents from high-crime areas, you might even argue that it should have reduced crime. Heartless, I know.) And since I’m not making a point — just introducing some facts — I felt I’d leave it up to the readers to point that kind of stuff out.
for any gullible people NOT to read the article*
If you consider cutting an pasting an excerpt from the article you posted being defensive, then I’m defensive. So defensive, even.
When 150 people a day start getting bombed to death in U.S. cities, I’ll give you a cookie for providing that article.
From Dhotis link: “But for us Iraqis, we never witnessed such crime rates in the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s.”
I think most countries, including the US can say the same. I wonder why he said nothing about the late 1990′s?
“Baghdad is a city of about six million that makes for a murder rate of about 48 per 100,000 people….
Washington D.C.’s about 32.”
The amount of violence is decreasing yearly as well.
I think SB’s just upset that her “horribly misinformed” card didn’t play quite like she hoped…
tyler – and the point was that congress voted to go into iraq, it was not just bush…
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cf – if the repubs stopped the ground war in kosovo the dems should’ve stopped the ground war in iraq. that’s the point sb and i were going round and round over, not this whole idea about the commander in chief and the chain of command. the points you made were correct in regards to those, but stating that the buck stops at bush completely ignores the incompetence of a multitude of other people who still work in our government. bush will never be back in office, but those people who screwed up in 2003 are still in power and if we stop at bush we will never bring to justice, or at least bring to light, those who shared responsibility with bush for his bad decisions.
Ubr? Nesting issue? I don’t see CF posting anything here.
yeah, i think i scrolled too far on this one…
Iraq didn’t attack us? What do you call violating a cease fire and shooting at US planes that were patrolling the no-fly zone?
“They tried to take something unpolished…”
This is because no matter how much effort one puts forth, you cannot polish a turd
“Bush was better off the hip…”
I seem to recall reading a research paper where someone (or a group of someones) evaluated a couple of years’ worth of Bush’s speeches, and noted that he was spoke nearly flawlessly when speaking on matters of violence and war, good (us) vs. evil (them), and “punishing” our enemies. When speaking of domestic, social, financial, environmental, casual affairs he typically bumbled and stumbled, but when talking about military attacks, the threat of terrorism, and what he perceived as “evil,” he was smooth and polished. It was really interesting, and a fascinating possible insight.
You stand corrected sir:
http://youcanpolishaturd.com/?p=3
lol!
MYTH BUSTED!
Oh no, because resorting to name calling is perfectly educated and adult like in a politial discussion. Obama is such a poopyhead!! He can’t do anything right. He is just a smellypants loser.
Try getting your facts straight. ACORN workers falsified ballots, yes. But ACORN itself flagged the ballots as suspicious when they were turned in. By law, the ballots HAD to be turned in. They did the right thing by flagging them.
Can we make ACORN a corollary to Godwin’s Law?
No. Acorn is ≡ oak.
@sigh, it wasn’t ballots, it was voter registrations, but acorn did turn the forms in and the workers were terminated
Fine *fumes*
But only because in my mind you’re a hottie.
Type the following as one string without the spaces:
& # 8 8 0 0 ;
Lol…thanks! I was scanning through the source code for the page to figure it out while you posted that.
Look fast: ( • )( •)
Hope that works right or it’s reeeeaally going to look stupid.
‼
♂
♥
I know lots of them. Do you wanna play “strip codebreaker?”
Lol…I just googled and found a page with decimal character references for symbols! You actually know these? I’m impressed. I’m just resourceful, which ≠ smart, necessarily. Although in some cases it’s ≈!
Nice work! Resourceful AND sexy… ☼
I don’t know them all, I just remember a choice few.
And for fun, you can just do the ampersand, pound sign, a random number, and a semicolon… just to see what pops…
like… Ą or maybe ↕ or ʚ
Shit…. it worked!
For the record, the last one I did was 666…
Not to nitpick, diss, but the right “boob” is a little smaller than the left.
@Eric: Nature’s not always perfectly symmetrical, either, you know! (Yeah, there’s an extra space in there somewhere.)
ROTFLMAO Yeah, I wasn’t sure if you realized what you said there, DT.
And diss, I wasn’t criticizing. Just making an observation. Like DT said, never ever say anything bad about breasts, even ASCII ones.
Once again…Iraq didn’t attack us.
naw, that whole thing back in 1991 was just a tv show produced for our benefit… next thing you’re going to be saying that saddam didn’t have wmds either…
We should have leveled them the first time.
Oh I forgot that Iraq attacked the United States and that’s why we fought the Gulf War…Oh wait, I didn’t forget, that’s not what happened.
saddam attacked a sovereign nation that we had signed treaties of protection with… attacking them was tantamount to them attacking us… so yes, they did attack us… unless you also believe that we shouldn’t have attacked germany in ww2 because they never attacked us, only our allies…
It’s not the same thing ubr, and I think you know it. Also, Japan attacked the US, and in order to defeat Japan it was necessary to attack Germany.
blonde, i thought we were actually getting somewhere, but your argument has fallen flat. by your logic we were justified in attacking iraq because (according to the information gathered from iran) iraq was supporting afghanistan.
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i’ve expressed my viewpoint on this many times on pk, but here we go again. we should’ve taken saddam out of power back in 1991-92, but between bush and clinton nobody had the cajones to do it. we supported the iraqi revolutionaries and then pulled the rug out from underneath them. then we got sucked back into the war due to false information and a congress that did as little fact checking as our media. but yet, it’s only bush’s fault.
we have a history of attacking countries that have not attacked us. the only four attacks on US soil this century caused us to enter ww2 and the war on terror, yet we fought in korea, vietnam, ww1, grenada, haiti, colombia, bosnia, somolia, panama, the dominican, laos, cambodia… where’s your righteous condemnation of those actions?
and don’t forget, clinton was president for several of those military actions…
sorry to jump in here, but since you are talking about logic fail ubr, then yours fails miserably. first, clinto had nothing to do with the first gulf war. second, the president of the usa is responsible for all his administration does or fails to do — basic leadership. in a conflict situation the congress acts based upon information the POTUS supplies. when in doubt, the congress should support the president if he provides an argument that reasonable people should believe to be true. korea and vietnam meet your initial criteria regarding kuwait. the remainder of your examples, wheter justified or not still met national security criteria. the problem with the second iraq is that the president was wrong in his assessment… any iraqi threat in the aftermath of sept 11 2001 was contained. simple economy of force operations would have continued to contain the threat. President Bush chose to divert resources away from the primary effort. After doing so, his administration avoide all indicators of a growing insurgency until it was firmly established. He alone bears the responsibility for his mis management of the “war on terror.”
hey charlie, but back out.
the constitution clearly states that the congress and only the congress has the right to declare war. if the president was really responsible for everything in the government why would we need the congress?
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and next: clinton was president when we had inspectors on the ground and a no-fly zone in iraq and we still had troops in saudi and kuwait ready to go. notice i said bush AND clinton.
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in the future please reread all comments above yours before you jump in. otherwise you sound like a moron. the whole point was that blonde suggested that we shouldn’t attack anyone who hasn’t attacked us…
Hey ubr, i did read the comments. I won’t back out. The Pres is the CINC, and while the congress does have the power to declare war, the president has the power to use military force as he sees fit. In the military, the Commander [in Chief] is responsible for all that his unit does or fails to do – basic leadership taught to cadets, lieutenants and reinforced throughout all of the officer ranks. While the congress has the power to declare war, throughout our history it has responded to presidential requests to do so. It has done so based upon information that the president provides. There has not been a declaration of war since WWII. These so-called resolutions are solely in response to the WAR powers act – passed in the 1970’s in response to the Vietnam Conflict – neither branch wants to challenge its constitutional validity, so they cop out with resolutions. Pres Bush (41) did not complete the job because his Saudi friends wouldn’t let him and Pres Clinton didn’t have the option – remember Kosovo? So if you want to sound all big and bad about national security, then rely on some real experience and or knowledge otherwise you sound like the moron your truly are.
ubr, you’re assuming that my opinion (like it matters) is that we were justified in attacking all of the other countries you’ve listed, but in fact I never said anything of the sort. If you compare WW2 or the Gulf War to Iraq and I point out differences between those events, it doesn’t mean I’m defending one and condemning the other.
I’m not convinced we should have attacked Iraq in the 90s, nor am I convinced that lack of “balls” was the answer. In fact, in most wars (and this is a broad statement, I realize) it’s my feeling that less balls and more brains would work out better for everyone.
I haven’t defended the 109th congress so you’re preaching to the choir on that one. They sucked mightily.
If you scroll back, you’ll find that I wasn’t defending Democrats or wars that took place under Democrats, I was merely pointing out that the occupation of Iraq was unjustifed and a complete failure, costing still more lives every day, and billions of dollars which could be better spent in a myriad of ways.
Also, what he said
charlie – in one sentence you say that the CINC is the power to be, yet in a later sentence you say that bush couldn’t because of saudi (the place we mounted the invasion from) and clinton do anything because of kosovo, which is a funny point because kosovo didn’t stop him from invading haiti and somalia… you just don’t seem to get the point. if the commander in chief has the ultimate power why would we have to go to congress to get a war resolution. as for your comment on the chain of command… yes, the president is at the top of the chain, but the constitution of the united states clearly states that he can’t declare war. you’re stuck in a dichotomy. you want bush to be ultimately responsible for all the evils that occurred during his administration while the balance of power proves that he wasn’t the only one responsible. even sb (whom i never agree with haha) agrees with me that the 109th congress is at least partially responsible for giving bush the green light to attack iraq. if it wasn’t for that green light bush would not have attacked iraq.
as for your comments about real experience and real knowledge, as far as you know i’m a colonel in the usmc who attended the academy and the war college… in short, it’s the internet, go fux yourself.
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sb – my point was just that we have a history of fighting unjust wars and some of them (somalia, grenada, haiti, the dominican…) get swept under the rug like they never happened. in order for there to be real change in the way we operate as a foreign power than these wars need to be brought up and understood by the american people as to why they shouldn’t have happened…
And so goes one of my favorite forum dances. I call this one the ubr:
1) Make a basically correct point, but screw up the details
2) Get called out on it
3) Whine and moan petulantly
Let’s watch… *grabs popcorn*
I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point, ubr.
-Hops on Dhoti’s couch and makes more popcorn- Mind if I watch?
ubr, nice try – if you are a colonel, then you are not a very bright one. First — if you were a colonel, you would realize that Pres Bush (41) pulled together a very loose coalition in order to conduct DS/DS. He did so with the begrudging support of the king of Saudi Arabia, and only with the limited objective of removing Iraqi forces from Kuwait. Second, the president, as commander in chief does not have ultimate power. What he does have is the ability to use US Armed Forces to defend the nation, as he sees fit – the timeframe that he can do so remains cloudy, constrained by the war powers act which no president has agreed is constitutional, but which no president has had the guts to challenge in court. Pres Clinton was constrained from operations in Kosovo because the Republican controlled Congress opposed whatever he did – in that role reversal, democrats acted like hawks and publicans acted like doves. Third, I never said Pres Bush (43) was evil, stupid maybe, but not evil – calling someone evil is a conservative response to someone they object to. Forth – I don’t believe that you are a Colonel in the USMC, you are, however a dumbass.
*munches, listens, learns*
@dhoti – you’re still bitter after the whole “retranching” conversation from several months ago? i must’ve really hit a nerve with you…
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@charlie – you obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word sarcasm. as for the rest of your argument, your last post and your first post are completely contradictory.
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as for the part about being a colonel, you’re right, i’m not a colonel, i’m an four star army general with the initials gsp.
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the point you completely missed was that on the internet claiming that you are more knowledgeable or more experienced is the equivalent of pissing in the wind… the only person who cares about it is you.
and before you reply can you please really read what i said? your speed reading classes are making you miss the meaning of sentences. i didn’t say that bush was evil, rather that you were blaming the EVILS of his administration. i didn’t say that i was a colonel, rather that “as far as you know i’m a colonel”
He understood that, Ubr.
@COL/ GEN ubr – you used sarcasm? No my posts are not contradictory; you simply read what you wanted to read. Missed, I didn’t miss anything, I simply stated that you were talking out of your ass when you spouted off.
Quite the contrary, ubr — I thought your constipated flailing was absolutely hilarious. (In fact, just thinking about it makes me chuckle, even now.) Obviously it bothered you if you can still remember the details…
But if it makes you feel better to believe that you pissed me off with your in-depth knowledge and incisive wit, go right ahead. Just imagine me sitting at my PC screaming “CURSE YOU REED RICHARDS!!!!”
“Second, the president, as commander in chief does not have ultimate power.”
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“the president of the usa is responsible for all his administration does”
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if he doesn’t have ultimate power how can he be responsible for all his administration does?
Dhoti- Constipated flailing? Possibly the best description of anything, ever.
And the “CURSE YOU REED RICHARDS!!” bit really made me LOL.
@dhoti – all i remember was you and your sock posting messages back and forth to each other how ‘retranching’ was a word readily used in the financial industry…
Ubr, he’s responsible for what HIS administration does. Not everything, not what the congress does, what actions HIS administration performs and decides upon. Moot point.
Most folks, when they see multiple people disagreeing with them, take a second to think about why. (Or at least how to dismiss them all as dolts.)
But not ubr. Sock puppetry! EBIL SCHEMES AFOOT!!!!1!
“Second, the president, as commander in chief does not have ultimate power.”
— response to your deliberate mis reading of my initial response in which you lumped the Saudi King with the US Congress — try again COLONEL.
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“the president of the usa is responsible for all his administration does”
— operative words “His Administration” strike 2 GENERAL
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if he doesn’t have ultimate power how can he be responsible for all his administration does?
Its his administration, COL/ GEN dumbass.
Bye the Bye — COL/ GEN ubr — how do you spell Bob backwards? Megabob with any other name is still pathetic.
tyler – and the point was that congress voted to go into iraq, it was not just bush…
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cf – if the repubs stopped the ground war in kosovo the dems should’ve stopped the ground war in iraq. that’s the point sb and i were going round and round over, not this whole idea about the commander in chief and the chain of command. the points you made were correct in regards to those, but stating that the buck stops at bush completely ignores the incompetence of a multitude of other people who still work in our government. bush will never be back in office, but those people who screwed up in 2003 are still in power and if we stop at bush we will never bring to justice, or at least bring to light, those who shared responsibility with bush for his bad decisions.
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and after having read your post above this one… there’s no further point arguing with someone who can’t even readily explain their own statements… i’d rather fight with dhoti, at least he attempts to crack jokes…
The fact that he and his administration suggested we go to war still destroys your point, I doubt congress would’ve voted “go to war!” without him WANTING to go there in the first place.
Who controlled the Congress when Pres Clinton faced the problem in Kosovo?
Who controlled the Congress when Pres Bush (43) went into Iraq?
You need to read your own words, “in the future please reread all comments above yours before you jump in. otherwise you sound like a moron.”
Argue with whom you please, but your rabid defense of Pres Bush is a knee-jerk response.
I don’t mind a few jokes, but if you choose to open with calling someone a moron, then stand by for incoming.
oh I forgot, COL/ GEN — you must have experienced that when you were up to your elbows in hand-grenade pins.
On another note, d’you guys like the vid behind the name?
suicide_blonde –
If the law I read (hopefully in my name, if I did it right) was the law that approved the war in Iraq then it is about much more than WMDs (as Bush, or maybe the media has protrayed). The law includes as reasons: the war against Iran and use of chemical weapons, numerous accounts of attacks on Iraqi civilians (including chemical), the invasion of Kuwait and resulting death and destruction, the refusal to follow numerous UN resolutions, threatening Saudi Arabia (among many other countries), not allowing the UN investigators to confirm destruction of their chemical weapons, ect. Iraq did not attack the US, but it did threaten everyone it could and attacked many of its neighbors.
The US entered WW2 because of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but it should have years before. If the US had entered the war earlier then maybe millions of innocent civilians could have been spared…
I think declaring the invasion of Iraq a “failure” is inaccurate. It was mis-managed and used as a means by some to kill others (the vast majority of deaths in Iraq), but there is now a democracy in Iraq and the possibility of a thriving country, unlike under Saddam.
Charlie Foxtrot –
You state that the President is responsible for all his administration does, yet it was the Congress (a seperate branch in the government) that approved his law to initiate the war. The President can only be responsible for those whom he can exert power over, not those who are independantly elected. The President presented many arguements for the invasion, its just that many only focus on one (WMDs). You state that Iraq was no threat, but no one could verify it. The UN was unable to determine if the chemical weapons had been destroyed and Saddam kept threatening all with them. You bring up the economic sanctions but fail to remember the Oil for Money Scandal at the UN that Saddam profited greatly from while his people languished and died.
Beuken- you’re right, the congress approved his request- BUT HIS ADMINISTRATION STILL MADE THE REQUEST. That is why he is responsible for his administration, and the Congress didn’t do it all on their own.
so… if congress had been controlled by dems we wouldn’t have gone to war in iraq? thanks, you just made my point for me…
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and trust me, i am not a rabid defender of bush by any means, i just don’t think that he’s the only bad guy in washington… imo they’re all corrupt and touting one over the other just disguises what is really happening… if no one gets past the “it’s all bush’s fault” sentiment then politicians will be able to get away with anything simply because compared to bush’s f–ups theirs are insignificant…
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and i apologize if you thought i was calling you a moron, it was just that your original statement was completely off topic from what sb and i were talking about… bush and clinton both were president when we had forces in, over, and around iraq and a multitude of wars have been fought with no good cause except that it ‘seemed’ to be right at the time…
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as for being ‘knee deep in grenade pins’ out of ammo and vicious insurgents closing in on all sides with only a bayonet and some silly string left… i have the utmost respect for our military and those serving… i’m not sure where you got your name from, but if you were trained in the phonetic alphabet i’m sure you spent a bit of time in too…
@tyler – no one is saying that congress did it on their own… it took the legislative and the executive branches to screw the pooch on that one…
@ubr, now that we are past the measuring contest, perhaps we may be able to talk. I doubt that a democratic congress would have stopped Pres Bush (43) from invading iraq. As President during a undeclared, yet active war he had the right and responsibility to choose where he wanted to cast his spear into the ground, in effect stating this is where we fight. He is solely responsible for that decision and, right or wrong, he will stand responsible for that decision throughout history.
then we need to have a lot more conversations about unjust wars. iraq is only the most recent place where we fought without really knowing what was going on… i still want to know wtf we were doing in somalia…
wasting the lives of good soldiers. Having said that, those soldiers did not die in vein. No soldier, sailor, airman or marine who gives their lives following the lawful orders of the POTUS dies in vein — the vanity lies with the politician who screwed up.
@BeukendaalMason — I didn’t say that Iraq wasn’t a threat, I said that the threat was contained, and I believe that it would have remained contained with an economy of force thereby allowing the US to pursue the extra-national terrorist threat of al-Quaeda through Afghanistan/Pakistan. The comittment of our main effort into Iraq diverted critical assets away from Afghanistan into Iraq, hence the continued struggle in Afghanistan.
Crazy nesting, hope this gets in the right place.
@ubr: Charlie’s my dad. He’s a retired LtC.
It makes perfect sense to me. The war was something he had plenty of confidence with. He felt like he knew what he was talking about. I’m sure the same probably couldn’t be said about the other issues.
And apparently they don’t get brought up by you, either.
Even if Obama stumbles at times, at least he consistently uses correct grammar, spelling, and pronunciation.
Obama made up his own language: Austrian
Why does he need to make up words? “Uhhhhm” works just fine.
ooh you found out my secret!
not.
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in a press conference about the new health care for federal government employee’s domestic (same sex) partners obama used the term dynamism when we really meant dynamic. unless you really think that he meant a metaphysical concept developed by leibniz…
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and how can you tell that obama uses correct spelling when he talks? are you reading the teleprompter along with him?
*snerk*
I’m willing to negotiate on that part of my master plan.
I hate Wal-Mart. If the one near my house burned to the ground I wouldn’t complain.
Make an example. Then other countries are less likely to screw with us.
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I’m sorry, I’ve already admitted to being bloodthirsty when there is a threat. I’m not likely to change any time soon, so I apologize for my blanket bloodthirstiness.
and people wonder why the israeli airline, el al, has only been successfully hijacked once…
the details were never (and probably never will be) released, but the suspicion is that the mossad went through and murdered pretty much everyone who had ever met the hijackers… the next time someone tried to hijack an el al jet, the israeli military blew up half the beirut airport…
Yikes… Id hate to work there.
Again came back today. Deep complimented me on it.
I missed something, what happened there?
WHAT? WHERE? I missed something, didn’t I? Oh snap, gotta get me some Again action!
Again? Caretroll? {http://punditkitchen.com/2009/06/22/political-pictures-girl-scouts/#comment-179940}
Read our argument… THAT guy.
I got ‘im in the end, though.
I just hope my post above doesnt earn me a caretroll tag..
*readies his silver Failhammer with a Brock Samson look in his eye* They wanna troll tag me? Go ahead….. put it on me!
Congrats. You’ve officially Godwinned this thread
And Anniee, in the same nest. This is unprecedented. Can you smell the flames already?
Oh, Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, haven’t you heard? Conservatives only like democracy when it favors them.
Well Tyler. I just got BACK from a protest in DC and I make plenty of LOLs. Want to preach to me about what to do? It IS sickening to see the level of Obama-luuuuurve here, especially since some of us know exactly what he’s doing and what effect it’s going to have. That the voting rolls here are skewed does not make these preachy, unfunny, STUPID lols funny or palatable. This site SHOULD be funny and instead it’s just dumb.
Well, Anniee, to paraphrase a certain phrase that you conservatives love to use when you’re in the majority: Pundit Kitchen: Love it or leave it. Nobody’s making you stay, Anniee.
Pfft – send in the fail boat. I’m not going anywhere, buddy. (I’m not your buddy, friend. She’s not your friend, pal.) While I’m sure you’d prefer that, I prefer to stay and hope for improvement; the idea of what this site is supposed to be is WORTH sticking around for. I intend to.
Actually… Anniee.. he told you your solution, You can get used to the lols and work with them, and continue your child like ranting and raving and your AWESOME broad brush stroke art classes…. OR…. you can leave.
So… you choose to stay, see the lols, be enraged, then spat, spittle, and rant and talk about how everything’s going to horrible, when you’re faced with an easy alternative that could provide you with maybe some happiness? A smile mayhaps?
From your choices and your decisions, Id say the fail boats only got one ticket holder here… and Her name starts with an A.
And Anniee, before the blood pressure rises and you start seeing red, notice Ive done nothing but point out your actions… the causes and reactions. Nothing more, nothing less. So if you’re mad at someone, be mad at yourself for putting yourself through all this.
I wonder which part of “no intention of going anywhere” escaped your understanding? It’s a strange phenomenon to speak in plain English and not be understood. And if I choose to disparage some of the lols that make it on to the front page for no good reason, so I will. How that bothers you so much I really can’t fathom. But have at it.
beautiful