The second is that the argument was made that the American makers had taken their lumps, and were turning around when the recession hit, and that they might’ve made it if it weren’t for that. Throw in some more oversight as a condition of the bailout and it’s not such a bad deal.

They should’ve had a gut check a decade ago and things were ugly (corporate culture wise) for a while, but this is now and it seems to be getting better.

Just my two cents.

It’s not about what either of us think. My short list for dream cars includes a Cadillac Escalade, I just know that it will take regulation to make the same car more efficient. None of these measures are “life changing” for anyone, they are meant to make the current system run better for it’s own sake.

A controlled dialing up of average fuel economy, adoption of technologies like plug-in hybrids, and developing of biofuels on our terms and aided by reasonable regulation is a much more pleasant prospect than oil panics, inflation, economic burden and wasteful epic and sweeping conversion projects in terms of transitioning to a sustainable system.

I leave you with a quote from “Who Killed the Electric Car”,
S. David Freeman, former Chairman of the Board of the Tennessee Valley Authority, and Energy Adviser of the Carter Administration said
“It took a law to get seat belts in cars.
It took a law to get airbags in cars.
It took a law to get efficiency from 12mpg to 20mpg
It took a law to get catalytic converters…”

I’m in two minds about the aid they get to stay alive. So many companies around here depend on them more or less totally (which is f-ed up in itself) and tons of people would become unemployed if they croak completely, so for society’s sake it’s kinda smart short term to put them on artificial life support, but long term it just makes things quite unsustainable.

Oh, and of course, Volvo = Ford and SAAB = GM, so I know why they all went wrong. ;p

I know firsthand how hard it can be for auto workers as my stepfather worked for Chrysler for 20 years. He spent most of the time I knew him laid off from the Fenton plant before getting transferred to the Huntsville, AL plant. They get paid well, that’s for sure, but when they’re not working, ouch. I don’t wish that on them, but I’m not about to be guilt-tripped into buying a car I don’t want to save them.

Also, many foreign auto makers have plants here in the States. It’s not a black and white issue at all.

bitter troll is a pretty good distance shot

its comcastic!

Those who do get a vote are the CEOs themselves who sit on each others boards and appoinnt the remuneration committees.

You prefer unaccountability to accountability as long as it’s “private money”?

That’s the best of all worlds for you? Your money (as a shareholder) being spent on failure, against your interests and with zero accountability?

its in the 2000′s ready…has jetsons lied to us?

and where bitter trolls jive talking robot maid?

Don’t worry, there’s always masturbation.

Obviously this is my fault for giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were deep enough to be worth talking to. Thank you for showing me my mistake.

Dhoti. It could be that you “hit close to home” (ooooooh), or it could be that I have a memory that goes back farther than 30 minutes, or it could be that I’m not used to being called a liar by random strangers on the internet and so I remember it, or it could be that I find your overblown sense of self-importance amusing and I like to stick your sad little putdowns in my pocket to use later, for the purposes of humor (try googling humor of that word isn’t familiar to you).

*adds “weasling out” to list of random accusations slung by Dhoti*

Whether you want to call it wasteful or not is of no real importance…the current consumption of oil by the US and other countries is not sustainable, and has a huge negative impact on the environment that affects everyone in real ways, including the pocketbook.

Again, this isn’t my “take” on the situation, and my “definition of what waste is” is of no real importance.

If people want to drive enormous vehicles, then auto makers should get to work producing large vehicles that run more efficiently. This likely would have already happened if there wasn’t so much money in oil.

Froo and I don’t share a lot of common ground when it comes to politics, but in our debates she’s never stooped to name calling or making shallow character judgements about me, which you do, and which only serves to show your own lack of composure and immaturity.

That said, I bet you never get laid.

And remember, Eric, if all the autoworkers lose their jobs, then they can’t afford to buy stuff where you work and you end up losing yours. It affects all of us.

This isn’t the first time you’ve run your mouth without the knowledge to back it up. Why do you insist? It just makes you look like an idiot.

Take a look at Ford’s stock prices over the last six months compared to any other automaker and you’ll see what the smart money believes in that company.