So your creating a choice between taxes

and death panels…

hmmm

And, because I haven’t gotten my fill of devil’s advocacy yet for the day allow me to at the same time laud Dhoti’s desire for a compromise, and chuckle derisively at his idea of compromise. Or, to put it simply: Quite a few things are being taken for granted in his suggestion. Sill playing devil’s advocate, I would argue that you can’t prove humans have inherent value at all. A human life is worth no more just for being human then a dog, or a bacterium. Each lives and dies thinking itself the most important thing on the planet, though not always in those terms. Amusingly, the bacterium have much quieter arguments, and don’t seem to be divided on the morality of reproduction. Ooh, perhaps that makes them superior to a species in which some are convinced that everyone else must act as they do?

Hee, hee, satire is fun ^^

Mind you, I’m just clarifying. If I were to play devil’s advocate here, I’d point out that “There has been no research showing that women are choosing to abort their children rather than place these children for adoption. Although the adoption rate has remained relatively steady, nationwide abortion rates have continued to decline since 1990. (Freundlich, 1998)”. You know, just to point out that the decision isn’t “abort/adoption”.

A note: If we could quit squabbling over terms, and yes, that does indeed mean not using inflammatory terms on either side, more could be accomplished.

An afterthought: when life begins is up for debate, as is the status of the fetus, so technically, it is indeed a matter of philosophy and ethics. Both sides have a bad tendency to take their perspective as granted truth.

Right, back to playing Devil’s Avocate.
Justa: With the stance as “murder” firmly established, you clearly set value on the lives of said unborn children/fetuses (so hard to avoid loaded words here…). A simple question: why? What is the value that the fetus has based upon? Simply being human? Being alive? Potential? It’s an old question, and one I hope to find a good answer for. Also, on an entirely unrelated note, I rather like your hat.

BDITS: Same question, in reverse; what grants a right to abort, or on the other side, what renders null making it illegal? What value do you ascribe to the fetus, and by what method?

Hey! Christmas is coming! Maybe….

A nifty catch22 otherwise though.

Oh yes, and let us point out: He couldn’t get coverage, moved, and got coverage. Success for the adaptable human; good for him! If he could get covered elsewhere, and had no strong motivations to stay, it’d be like a smoker complaining about getting lung cancer…while taking a puff.

I’m sure there’s a couple good metaphors here, depending on how one views certain systems.

I think perhaps I’m not quite getting the picture here; my “how” section I’m almost certain is missing something. Any thoughts?

Or perhaps, look at it from a bigger perspective: evolutionarily speaking, to use medical means to prolong the life of someone who would be otherwise out of the gene pool is changing what constitutes fitness. While this brings in an interesting topic about evolution, culture, and what constitutes fitness in the modern day, it still remains that it weakens the populous against ___ condition. Interestingly, one could argue capitalistically that those capable of producing can afford to survive.
-This Comical perspective brought to you by a Devil’s Advocate with a sense of humor.

Of course, humans really don’t matter much in the long run. We live, we die every day. But all specks on a pale blue dot we float along. One would think that kindness would be a valued, not an exploited, virtue, as scant as human life is already. Ah, value; an interesting question. Do humans have innate worth? If so, what is it based on? Why don’t animals as well? Why don’t bacteria? How do we measure a man, or life at all? The sum of their components? Achievements? Wealth? Is it arrogant to assume ones own species, or country, or family is special enough to deserve what others have? To assume we have a higher place somehow, some god-given right? Pardon me; off to meditate.
-This strange mix of nihilism, humanism, morals, satire, and perspective brought to you by whimsy, but attributed to a Devil’s Advocate.

A generator in a power plant in the early days of electricity begins to sound “funny”; those present don’t know what to do, so they call one of the great electricians of the day. He arrives, listens to the machine for a few moments, before taking out a screwdriver, and turning one screw forty-five degrees clockwise; the noise goes away. Soon, his bill arrives: $5000. The plant manager is astounded, and writes back asking for clarification. A second bill arrives that reads:
Travel time, gas, two minutes labor: $0.09
Knowing which screw to turn and how far to turn it: $4999.91

Isn’t that just “mixed economy” which is what practically all developed states including the US have been using for … quite some time now?

Same could be said of Republicans.

I do actually agree with everything Justa said, except his use of the term ”pro-murder”. That’s why I addressed my post (x2!!) to his use of that term, and closed it by saying that the circumstances surroinding the abortion choice are not always straightforward.

Justa, I’m sorry for not mentioning that I mostly agreed with you! The news story I mentioned was very distressing, but unfortunately not uncommon. While I would never say that the decision to abort is ever ‘right’, there are cases where it is understandable.