BULLSHIT DETECTOR
Going off like the 4th of July
(Glenn Beck)
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BULLSHIT DETECTOR
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Sad, but true. How does this guy gets so many people to watch his show is still beyond me.
He explains his point while using props, chalkboard, etc. ya, know, like 4 dummies. Good stuff imo!!! I think he’s ready for primetime.
*shudders*
Would that be one of the signs of the coming apocalypse? DU, come north, he’s not up here.
i think it was on SNL it showed coming signs of the apocalypse and palin becomes president while the president elect is glen beck *shudder*
I agree. Anarchy is clearly the way to go.
Vote for anarchy!!!
*disappears in a puff of illogic*
Hey, look, Charro. Fairy dust…mmmm…fairy dust.
*looks up from doing big fat rail of faerie dust*
*sniffsnort*
Whut?
I wonder what the pharmacological effect of fairy dues is on mermaids?
it gives you wings, duh
Oh geepers, just saw my spelling fail.
Are wings useful on a mermaid? I would think the feathers would drag in the water!
They’re more like fairy wings than angel wings, i.e., more insect like than bird like. Though they are far more water resistant than insect wings and actually function under water like fins.
That depends if you’re talking about dragonfly fairy wings or butterfly/moth fairy wings. Water has a devastating effect on the second type…
du’s on the right track – and since you’re a bit of a different hybrid (fairie/mermaid) you could either have scaly wings similar to your flippers, or feathery wings similar to penguins, your choice i guess – i haven’t dealt with this mix before, but since it was froo fairy dust, she might have a better idea of which wings you would get
My wings depend on my mood
I bet charro would end up with a really cool type of dragon wing that would allow her to fly, but also to swim really fast like a penguin.
Given that it is Charro, I would bet on peek-a-boo qualities!
peak-a-boo goes without saying when it comes to charro ;D
dagnabit – that should be peek-a-boo, not peak-a-boo….. although…..
Peaks have their place, too!
Are those European wings, or African wings?
Anarchists: Let’s form an organization to end all organization! (FAIL)
Seriously, though, I approve of Glenn Beck because he’s not Republican or Democrat, he’s a conservative. If he think’s a Democrat is doing something wrong, he will not hesitate to say so, but he does not hesitate to call out Republicans, either.
Sorry, I realize that I am replying to myself, here, but I have one more thing to say. Why would Beck make the BS detector go off? He IS the BS detector!
So…. you don’t LIKE living in a republic?
Maybe because he is actually telling the truth? Could that be it? Nobody can or has shown where he is wrong. So ……. hmmmmmm When he goes after somebody with the truth they have to step down. Can’t fight the truth. So tell us, where is the BS? Try the White House now.
“Maybe because he is actually telling the truth? Could that be it? Nobody can or has shown where he is wrong”
Yeah, just ask Jim Cramer about that.
*snickers*
Nobody has or can shown he’s wrong, or lying or full of crap? Keith Olbermann spends half his show doing it, lol.
Keith Olbermann also (falsely) reported that Rush Limbaugh said not to donate to Haiti. He doesn’t like Beck, so therefore he reports on the things that make Beck look bad at the expense of context.
This is the quote I heard: “We’ve already donated to Haiti,” Limbaugh told the caller on his radio show. “It’s called the U.S. income tax.”
Is that not correct? And to me that sounds as if he’s telling people ‘not to bother.’
That’s an out of context quote.
The actual (complete) conversation was with a caller who said he had been told to go to the whitehouse.gov site to donate, and didn’t understand why he had to do it that way. Why did he have to go through them? Limbaugh agreed, said that you didnt’ have to donate through that particular website, and said that we have donated (through taxes) to the national relief effort. Which is completely true.
He went on to say that if you wanted to donate, you should do it on your own, not because the gov’t told you to, and not through any gov’t site because you can’t be sure of where the money was going.
I just checked the whitehouse.gov site–it leads you to the USAID site and the ClintonBush site. And USAID has a page which links to the major charities–which is useful for a person worried about being miss led by scam artists. (like how ‘whitehouse.other suffix’ led to a pr0n site)
Point being, it wouldn’t have taken Limbaugh’s folks 2 minutes to figure that out, if they had wanted to be helpful…
I agree, but he was answering the caller’s immediate question, which was, why do I have to go through the whitehouse.gov site at all? Limbaugh said “You don’t” and went from there. The quote was misportrayed by Olbermann and others to make it seem as though Limbaugh said “don’t donate”, when he clearly didn’t say that, nor did he imply it.
Actually, I read the conversation, and Limbaugh accuses the White House of scamming people out of their money by taking their money instead of using it to help Haiti. That kind of translates to advising people not to donate there, in my book. I might’ve read a different conversation than you, however.
READING =/= Listening to the radio. When you take away a broadcaster’s inflection, you take away the meaning of the words.
There are several charities to which I refuse to donate. Too much of the money goes to administrative costs and not enough to the people who are hurting.
Also, Rush has had very clearly stated views on this particular administration and its use of money. For him to say “don’t use the government site because it might be scamming you” is completely within character. He still DID NOT say to not donate. He said find your own way to donate independant of the government, AND on top of what you might pay to government relief funds in the form of your income tax.
I understand what Limbaugh meant, the problem was it was unneeded at the time. This is a tradgedy going on in my country. I don’t want to hear how he feels about Obama’s administration.
He also accused Obama of politicizing the issue, when he CLEARLY just did! That type of hypocrisy turns me off completely. Not to mention that he never told anyone not to donate to the White House when Katrina or the tsunami in Indonesia happeneed.
Why not?
Did the White House have a website with links on it during Katrina or the tsunami? I never heard.
Also, I’m not sure anyone questioned the need for using the whitehouse web site for donations during those two disasters.
I’m not defending his politicizing the issue, however, if I had a nickel for every time I heard “We’re handling this so much better than Katrina! This is nothing like Katrina! We’re doing better than Bush!!!!”, then I’d be a frigging millionaire.
Know: The difference is Obama is a politician and is using a tregedy (Like Guliani) for political gains, vice a PUNDIT who uses a tragedy for ratings and other gains. One is in the public trust (and handed public trust by voting) and one is an entertainer. I hold politicians to a hire standard.
That’s all well and good ILPB, but it’s obvious many on the right seem to hold the opinion of an entertainer at a higher value than the president. That’s what is really unneeded.
My propaganda purveyor is better than yours!
Mine can yell louder at presumptuous phone callers!
Mine is too good to even need to take phone calls!
My dog is smarter than your propaganda purveyor!
My cat is smarter than your dog!
Cat’s and dog’s should be able to find common ground in the middle.
My four cat flush trumps your one cat!
<< apostrophe fail!!!!
*head explodes from excessive apostrophe use by Wicket* Argh! *chases Wicket with rolled up newspaper* No apostrophes in plurals!!!
Wicket has redeemed himself! Beer for all! Oops, make that Baileys for DU.
I’ll bring the Oreos!
*sigh* We really must raise your standards, DU. At least Milanos.
Or…I bought two containers of chocolate ice cream, we could have Baileys-chocolate milk shakes again! (It’s much warmer now that your evil storm left. We never did get any snow at our house after all that build-up.)
Milanos are good, but I have my wallet to think about. I can get considerably more Oreos for 5 dollars than I can get Milanos.
Hee hee. Both Milanos and Oreos are my husband’s. I don’t care for either. But he will eat all of whichever I buy for him, and there’s a lot fewer calories in a package of Milanos than a package of Oreos. *stuffs Milanos through the interwebs* You know, it’s really hard to fit them into that little slot on the front of the PC tower.
*uploads Milanos* Try the CD/DVD drive next time, they fit better in there. The Brussels are really good too. They’re all crunchy and crackly….
That’s funny because I actually do think the Brussels are better. That’s one of the reasons I buy the Milanos.
Since I work at home so much, they do tend to sit in the cupboard and call to me.
Hey, my stupid computer mouse is trying to eat the cookie crumbs. Bad mouse!
I like the Brussels better too actually. Though they’re still more expensive than Oreos. You should let the mouse have the crumbs. You’re just going to have to clean them up if it doesn’t eat them.
Well, I am twice as old as you, so I should be a little more financially secure. When I was your age, I was in grad school netting $634 monthly ($334 after rent), so been there, done that. Of course, it helps to select a boyo who actually has some earning power.
*checks pockets*
*removes some pocket lint*
Well I guess that rules me out…
Hey, Greenbeard’s back! Sorry, Canuck, not trading mine in anyway. You’ll have to talk to DU. She might be up for some of that thar soocilized med’cine you gots up thataway!
But you can share our Milanos and Baileys. *shoos mouse away from cookies*
Can’t stay and play for too long, but I thought I’d pop in and say hi.
*Squeezes for everyone*
I’ve been lurking a bit, but I have my hands full getting ready to become Papa Green Beard
Well, you are definitely NOT allowed to be chatting up DU if you are soon-to-be Papa Greenbeard (although it does explain the lack of money). Congrats, BTW.
*squeezes back* Congrats! I was wondering what had happened to you. Don’t worry though, I already have Keithy for socialized medicine.
*attempts to look innocent*
Why Mabs, I would never even dream of randomly flirting with such dignified ladies as frequent PK if only for the sake of proving to myself I still have the charm and wit of my youth.
and thank you for the congrats
*Opens the humidor*
They’re chocolate if you want one
you too DU
*pulls out portable wet bar*
A round for the house for anyone still awake
Ah, thank you. Do you know the gender yet? *noms chocolate cigar*
PS DU, Facebook is too much of a pain in the a$$. Can’t for the life of me figure out how one sets a ‘public name’ that is not one’s actual name. Sorry.
*Grabs a cider and passes out more Oreos.*
Now the important question. Will it be born with a greenbeard, or will the grow in later?
Mabs, just cheat! Put Mabsa as your real name when your setting up the account if you don’t want people knowing your real name. P. Kitchen can be your middle initial and last name.
@Mabs: not yet, my wife decided she would prefer a surprise, which I found odd because she hates surprises. We’re down to 28 days (approximately) and counting
@DU: Well, if it’s a girl I hope it doesn’t have a beard
However if I remember correctly red hair is recessive so I’m afraid he or she is doomed to be a ginger.
Whaddya mean… doomed to be a ginger? Redheads are hawt!
GB, but babies are different. Besides if people know the gender, then you get all pink or all blue. Boring!
DU, well, then I think I mucked it up. *sigh* I was better at these things when computers took up significant percentages of rooms.
@Max: Well I certainly think so, I married one after all… however there wasn’t the unpleasantness of November 20th when I was young either.
November 20th? What happens then? I’m confoozled!
@Max: this
Agreed
he’s gotten plenty of “Pants on Fire”s from PolitiFact.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/
And this is not the only place he has been called out for his flat-out lies. Clearly you’ve just been sticking your fingers in your ears and humming REALLY loudly.
@ bloop
Exactly. You’ve got to try REALLY hard not to know when these fools are lying.
Why not fact check some of the things he says and see how much truth is in it.
Because he’s the video equivalent of an Op/Ed writer. Fox itself doesn’t even consider him a NEWS reporter.
Just like every member of the Fox team, or the CNN team, or the MSNBC team, they’re a business, and concerned about one thing and one thing only: selling ad space. That is how they pay their own salaries, so that’s what they focus on. They do this by slicing off a demographic of the audience and catering to the views/opinions of that demographic. They are a business, nothing more, and taking any of them seriously as legitimate news sources is naive at best.
I wonder what you consider to be a legitimate news source. They’re all businesses, are they not? A newspaper exists for profits. A news channel exists for profits. A news website exists for profits.
So, what is a legitimate news source? Where do you get your news? How do you decide whom to trust?
I read the Early Bird as often as I can. When I can’t access that, I try to watch reports/read articles from as many views as I can. By watching all the different spins, you can begin to construct a general idea of what’s actually going on behind the cloud of zippy one liners and partisan bias.
Now, this isn’t to say that there aren’t true news reporters. There are quite a few people who truly believe in what they’re doing, in what they’re reporting, and that’s why they take the risk of embedding, of going overseas, and of actually getting into the sh!t to get the true facts on what’s going on. The problem usually comes later on in the process, when editors and producers get ahold of the material and put the spin in. Such is the system.
Probably because you’ve never watched it yourself!
That should be a pic of Keith Olberman or Chris Matthews. Then it’d be funny.
But but but but….. he did it too…. Jimbob, not a great arguement. I’m pretty sure everyone knows pundits, like politicains, twist some facts or leave out important details (hell some “legitimate” anchors do that as well).
Jimbob, ALL “news” pundits do this. Faux News & BSNBC are just the biggest ones.
For Christ’s sake, THE DAILY SHOW & THE COLBERT REPORT ARE BETTER NEWS SOURCES!!!
Not really.. but I’ll give you a cookie for trying… Best news source actually is BBC usually. I try and read two conservatvies and two liberal papers (or news media) and go DEAD center from that.)
Well I said TDS & TCR are better news sources than Fox & NBC. Not the best news sources around.
You know one of the saddest thing is that some conservatives think that Colbert: conservatives = Stewart: liberals.
There are plenty of liberals who think so also. Most of those folks are probably morons who can’t tell that they’re being sarcastic and bash both aisles (Eh, for the most part. Stewart bashes Rebs more).
I still love Stewart’s 2008 Intor for Candidate Kerry at the DNC. “When John Kerry was born, and the Dr. slapped him on the a$$ he got his first Purple Heart.”
*snerk*
Recognizing and understanding satire is a sign of intelligence. I try to avoid people who are too stupid get that about Stewart and Colbert. They both do a pretty good job of giving much needed skewering to both the left and the right.
Daily Show & Colbert report are right up there with the BBC, and way better than most Fox News pundits, but neither are the #1. People who used The New Yorker/Atlantic and NPR as their news source scored highest in political knowledge: http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=1356
Jon Stewart is considered the most trusted news source in America, according to Time Magazine: http://www.timepolls.com/hppolls/archive/poll_results_417.html
That’s not quite what that study says…
But it’s in writing so its the troof
But what if I don’t print it out?
If it’s not on paper, it doesn’t really exist.
Sadly, the converse isn’t true, or I’d be printing tons of these this morning.
I’ve seen those. Those are pure win.
Those are f*ckin handy!
Would it be too much to ask to simply reanimate Walter Kronkite and stick him at a news desk again? That would settle the argument of who has the best news and if guests get out of line or try to lie he can always eat them. It would make for very compelling TV.
Mmmmm Zombie Kronkite
Be careful. Conservatrolls are still butthurt about Kronkite.
Oh geeeez. Here we go. We have found the problem with society. People who think The Daily Show and Colbert Report are actual news shows. No wonder this country is going to hell in a handbasket.
“For Christ’s sake, THE DAILY SHOW & THE COLBERT REPORT ARE BETTER NEWS SOURCES!!!”… and another nail is driven home in the USA’s coffin.
Those two would each have to smoke a pound of crack before they’d come within long rifle distance of hitting Beck’s level of f*cking loonybird crazy woop woop set pants on fire run around shrieking NUTS.
Clean up crew stat! I have sprayed my desk with ice tea in response to your excellent analysis of Mr. Blech. “F*ucking loonybird crazy woop woop set pants on fire run around shrieking NUTS” will be my password the next time the IT folks make me change my password AGAIN when I swear I just did it last week.
That was pretty awesome.
of course he can detect the bs when it’s his own
whoever made this, sucks, Glenn knows just what our government is plotting.
It’s not plotting…. I must admit Glenn does actually use source material when he makes his points, however his presentation is a little bit too polarizing. However since he is a conservative pundit the liberals would say he’s lying even if he had the watergate tapes to prove it.
It’s not whether or not he’s lying, it’s more the fact that he’s batsh*t crazy and seems to have a strong following that worries me.
Hey I said his presentation of said material is polarizing. However if you were to detract the facts from his sayings, calm it down some, there are def a few worrying things, in my eyes (someone who fears big government, however to VNV, Rando, and Ivan it might not be disturbing)
But….that would make him a Democrat! and we sure as hell don’t want him in our party.
Therein lies the problem though. To hit up the other side of the aisle, Mike Molloy uses research in a lot of his work, too, but I’m just as annoyed by his methods as I am with Beck’s. And for that reason I choose not to listen to either. I can get the same points and the same research with far less spin and theatrics elsewhere.
I am a firm believer in honest political discourse. I’m not one to worship our founding fathers (because I believe our founding fathers would have found the idea abhorrent), but if there’s one thing they did agree on it’s the need for honest political and civil discourse.
My issue with modern media isn’t so much the content as the delivery. What we find on most opinion shows, even the more level-headed ones, is less than honest, rarely civil, and more like bickering than discourse. About the only quality it meets is political, and really, that’s not much of a consolation.
But as Beck pointed out recently in an interview, no one watches Charlie Rose. So what? I want people who know what they’re talking about and are just as confortable with their own beliefs as they are with conceding when they are wrong.
Dunno, there is that whole fresco of Washington achieving godhood somewhere in DC…
“I can get the same points and the same research with far less spin and theatrics elsewhere.”
You can? Where? Amazing that no other news organization has covered some of this stuff like ACORN. It is rapidly becoming a question of WHEN not IF this stuff will stick to Obama and cause him to be impeached like Nixon. Anybody with half a brain can find the same stuff Beck comes up with and see what is happening. Just he has a nice outlet to get it out to everyone. I haven’t seen a single liberal commentator use facts yet. They just scream obscentities and call names when they have nothing else. Take a look at the Mass election to see a good example of it.
“cause him to be impeached like Nixon”
Yep. Don’t let things like facts get in the way of your flame war.
Wait I thought Clinton was the only President Impeached…. Nixon was going to be impeached and kicked out, but he decided to quit before that.
No silly, it’s the other way around! See, impeached is like when you get rid of a president and since nixon left that means he was impeached and clinton didn’t leave becasuse he wasn’t impeached. [/stupid]
Um, Andrew Jackson, anyone?
I think you mean Andrew Johnson, not Jackson. Saved by one vote there Mabs…. Only sitting President ever to have the 2/3rds vote (in the House) to Impeach him was President Clinton. Later the Senate “aquitted” him.
Sorry, dyslexic much, here, eh? Actually both were impeached by the House and both acquitted by the Senate.
@WellDUH – you “haven’t seen a single liberal commentator use facts yet.” Really? You might adjust your tinfoil hat – it’s interfering with your TV reception. Routinely on Rachel Maddow’s and Keith Olbermann’s and Jon Stewart’s shows they will juxtapose video clips of congresspeople or news readers saying something they just denied in a previous video clip that they ever said….”Nope, I didn’t say that!” “Uh, well, except when I said it just that once.” Those pesky facts are EVERYWHERE!
I find you very amusing. Do you do parties?
Sexy parties! lol!
When your points are only tangentially connected to your source material, or when your source material is forged, I’m not sure if it counts for much. I mean, if I have a report saying that Chinese products contain lead, and another report that says bullets contain lead, does it really help bolster my argument that the NRA is a Chinese plot?
Nebs, Glenn doesn’t really do that. You’re thinking of Limbaugh. I would actually like someone to complain about a Conservative Pundit who’s actually listened to said Pundit more than once. I’ve choked down listening to Air America, watching Bill Maher, and watching Anderson Cooper/ Wolf Blitzer…..
He is perhaps not as bad as many claim, but I think his rant on the insidious double meanings of the art outside Rockefeller Center is a pretty good demonstration that, at the very least, he occasionally makes some logical flying leaps.
His comments on Czars, while still good evidence of an issue with appointed positions in government, was also demonstrably untrue. Many of the “new” czars he mentions existed in previous administrations as well and had never before or since been labelled a czar. In truth the count was about the same compared to GW, though Obama appointed them faster.
There are other examples for Beck. And again, I’m not throwing rocks in glass houses. Liberal commentators take some serious liberties as well. I’m just noting that Beck is as prone to it as his competitors.
Did you hear Beck equate the health care plan to reparations for slavery? That’s a classic example of using “source material” to draw a zany conclusion.
But Mike Molloy saying that the Joint Cheifs are responsible for the Kennedy assassination because Kennedy was about to talk is completely sane.
Air America out of Portland. I try to listen to both sides, not just Rush and Glenn
Well, that is crazy! Everyone knows Kennedy was a mob hit….
No it was a giant meteor and the dinosaurs that killed kennedy!
Wait a second, I thought Ted Kennedy WAS a dinosaur? I’m so confused!!!! *runs away crying*
That explains everything, though! Ted Kennedy didn’t let that woman drown. Since he was a dinosaur, he ate her instead!
Too sooooooon!!!!
After I drank. Where is the shamwow?
Toooooo soooon after he drank cost Teddles the presidency.
Wait, whut? Tooooo sooon???
It is a fact of life on PK, that laughing too soon after drinking will anoint the laptop screen. Get with the program, dude!
Are you sure he was shot by a dinosaur? I thought it was the astronauts on the moon who shot him from a sound stage in the desert.
Two insanities do not make sane.
But three insanities do… or is that three lefts make it right… DAMN IT!! I get those confused.
Two wrights make an airplane, and three lefts send you back where you started, I think three insanities make multiple personality disorder.
Molloy is a crackpot. He’s one of the conspiracy theorist types that buys any ‘truth’ campaign, 9/11 or otherwise, that leans left, and even criticizes the left-wingers for engaging in corporatist conspiracies. I listen to and enjoy liberal talk, but Molloy is way beyond the pale. Most of the rest I can turn my BS filter on and still have some program left to enjoy.
ROFL. What a moronic statement.
How about if somebody says “Mao is my hero” do you think that means they might just possibly be a little bit Communist???? Of course not. That would mean just about everybody at the White House is possibly just a little bit Communist. Including Obama.
Let’s not link the obvious. Let’s make stupid assinine links trying to say they are the same. Now what source material was forged? Specifics please. Or you are just another lying liberal. Of course those 2 tend to go together.
WellDUH you can calm down, I’m going to use my superior skills as a super sleuth to find out who sh*t in your cheerios!
I’M ON THE CASE!!
um, max… i do believe you lied to all of us the other day. you said you were going to make a FB and join the PK group over the weekend… WE’RE STILL WAITING! *grumble**grumble*
Oh… well you see.. here’s the thing…
*backs up slowly*
Look! A elephant!
*jumps out the window*
Or the ever popular “Ernest Distraction”: “Is that a rabbit over there?” *runs away*
In all seriousness though, if I were to put up a facebook page this very instant all I’d have would be a bare page. The only pictures I have readily available would be a snapshot from my phone, with my current hat hair, a 5 o’clock shadow, and looking like I’ve only had 3 hours of sleep…
All of my photos are on a mystery hard driver… one of many, unfortunately, they’re all IED driver and no SLIs so I have no way to discern which one has the goods on it. Once I find it I’ll probably write “pictures” on it in crayon.
But anyways, my long winded point was I started up facebook right now… I’d have a book, with no face.
We’re not so much worried about the face as we are about the booking………and conversation
We have several members with no “face”, so please join us in our ebil little debauchery!!
Hey! I have a face! It’s on the other side of my head! Are you saying there’s something with my braid?
no kidding, i’m the same heap of rocks there that i am here; and trust me, they look better preserved than i do, and nobody from pk complains
Besides, some folks on facebook periodically replace their more recent photo with something more random. I have a cousin who has been represented by a cartoon for a year now!
Eeexcellent… I might just have to start hording avatars…
Of course, that means you actually have to get on Facebook first. And drag Mabs with you!
No! Facebook is the ebil! Um, on a totally unrelated note, do you think the Catholics will give a non-Catholic water from their shrine?
Facebook is GOD!
Ok, I was actually really reluctant to get a facebook account at first, but my DnD group made me do it, and it’s alot better than I thought it would be, it’s alot more private than something like myspace and you have alot more control over who sees what. You can even use a fake name to make an account if you don’t want other people knowing you have an account.
On the other note: I guess it depends…is this a holy shrine for blessings or something you can get a drink of water out of? Why do you need catholic shrine water anyways?
For the ebil Facebook!!
Must protect self from ebil facebook!
Oh, didn’t answer the other part: one of the local Catholic churches is actually a Shrine of Bernadette with a little fountain and everything. I have no idea why it’s a shrine rather than just a regular church. (Someone did explain it, but I got lost in the Catholicism. lol)
…I don’t know how to tell you this, but there are Catholics on facebook. Catholic water won’t protect you from facebook. It may however, protect you from twitter.
I’d probably have to start texting before I could twitter…hee hee. (That sounded really strange.)
Good night, dear. It’s late here. Good night, Rando & BF & Max, too. (This is getting a bit reminiscent of “The Waltons.”)
Well, if they give out water from the shrine they probably give it to everyone unless the priest just uses it to bless the congregation during masses. Though sprinkling water isn’t giving it out really.
I would also guess that a shrine has some sort of holy relic and is built specifically to house that relic and/or something holy happened there and that’s why the shrine was built.
Of course, all of this is just me guessing.
Amateurs. The skilled distractor uses “Look! Over there! It’s a distraction!” By the time they’ve realized what you’ve said, you can be out the door and down the street.
Yes, because the true noble chosen people are the conservatives. We liberals are not actually people, but Satan’s little demons sent to leech off the perfection that are conservatives. Retard.
“the perfection that IS conservatives.” DUH!
lol!
Hey! I’m not Satan’s little demon. I don’t believe in him. I must be someone else’s demon…I wonder whose?
Psst. Interview? Good?
Yeah, I want good news!
Not happy about the Massachusetts special election. >:(
*evil giggling*
*gets out her fairy-swatter, starts chasing after the giggle sounds*
*unholsters spray bottle while chasing* Hmm, opportunities for wet wings AND draperies!
Interview is tomorrow. I’m still nervous. I was up until 3:30 last night freaking out about it.
You’ll do great!! Good luck vibes and prayers are going out for you!! {{hugs}}
Sorry. THought it was today for some reason. I’m sure you’ll be your usual amazing self!
*I* was amazing. Best interview I’ve had in years. Not sure if I want the job though. I didn’t realize they were planning to stick me three counties away. I doubt it’ll be worth it.
….firebomb the location just after you get the job so they have to transfer you somewhere closer.
Well, I kinda misunderstood. They said they were putting new stores in the “western” part of the St. Louis area. I thought western St. Louis County (which would have been pretty close to me). They meant the outskirts of the entire ginormous St. Louis metropolitan area.
Well, that’s too bad. Maybe they’ll like you enough to offer you something closer?
PS Like your new handle.
Or the new pay rate will be good enough to move closer to the new job somewhere that may be a better area.
My husband is interviewing in CA again tomorrow.
They definitely won’t pay enough more to pay for a house anything like what we have here, which is not enormous or anything.
i won’t adopt you mabs, but i will foster. you’ll be in good company, i don’t believe in satan either, but i know demons exist: my pup’s alter is a little demon child in a dog’s body…. and between the 2 of us, i’m sure you could pick up a few new tricks
I doubt the pup’s alter could stand up to our four crazy cats. Hey! They’re all black, so I must be a witch. Now I can turn people into newts!
lol, don’t be too sure. tonight she lost a wrestling match with a pillow – she was trying to pull it out of the pillow case & ended up on the floor with the pillow on top of her…. she uses the little dog as a bowling ball and when she visits her sister, she uses the pit bull as a combination chew toy and swing set, she also gangs up with her sis to trap the bengal cat and lick him all over; she climbs onto the back of my tall chair and launches onto what ever walks by (human or animal), all toys are hers, cell phones and remotes have to be kept up high….
btw, did i mention she’s almost 2? according to other pug owners i can expect at least another 3 yrs of this before she slows down to a normal dog speed
Well, all the dogs in my immediate family have been labs. They don’t slow down to ‘normal dog speed’ until about eight.
My son’s cat tries to eat dogs. I actually have to yell at him to stay in the yard and not chase dogs.
Labs are big chewers, too. Basically you have to exercise them to death or they’ll eat your house.
The true noble chosen people? I thought those were the Jews?
If you actually worked with our government, you would realize they’re too stupid, slow, incompetent, and inefficient to plot anything.
They’re just soaking up a paycheck waiting for the next of 16 paid holidays or the 8 weeks of paid vacation they get.
Umm I do work with our government, and I’m well aware that there are people in place (especially politicians) who would want nothing more than for the Government to control the public, b/c the public can not control themselves.
News flash. They already do control the public via the Police.
I’m not sure what other form of control you’re hinting at…do I need to go shopping for a foil hat?
National Health Care (what Doctor you can or can not see, what procedure you can or can not have), Social Security (you’re too stupid to decide what to do with your retirement, we’ll take care of it for you, yet spend it at a more accelerated rate and more wreckless than anyone else), To outlaw smoking (only in certain areas b/c we still need the tax revenue) and trans fats b/c you’re not grown up enough to make a decision to do things that are bad for you and suffer the consequences…. the more the public relies on the government the less freedom the people have. It’s a pretty simple principle, the largest that conservatives strive for.
I’m confused, ILBP, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t your (meaning the US’) insurance companies currently dictate which doctor you can or can’t see depending on your coverage (I’m going by all the stories I’ve heard about HMO’s, etc.) and which medications you are allowed access to?
We have government run health care here in Canuckland and it doesn’t dictate what doctors I can or can’t see. Granted, some procedures are considered expiremental and our health care won’t pay for them, but that’s not too different from your FDA (I think) not allowing certain drugs or procedures in the States until they are proven. We take a little longer to approve things here than you guys do.
Justacanuck: Once again I don’t want the government making these rules. Insurance is a company. If I’m not happy with my plan I can switch plans (granted not everyone can do that, however with the proposed bill I will lose that option to me). If the Government controls my plan and I don’t like, I can’t switch, I can’t go anywhere else. Plus I don’t trust the government, b/c there is no fall back plan. You do realize there’s a reason lots of wealthy people in “Government Run Health Care” countries come to the US for Health Care.
Yes we have the FDA, but that is strictly drugs, not really procedures.
The FDA also regulates devices, like heart stents and artificial joints.
A lot of people go the US for procedures that haven’t been approved here, granted. I’m definitely not saying it’s perfect here, either. My opinion on what you guys (the US) should do about your health care extends as far as my (human) concern over the elderly/poor people in your country that don’t seem to have any health care. It’s not my business, so please don’t take my comments as me telling you what should do.
That being said, what is your propsal for those people in your country that cannot afford insurance, cannot afford to change insurance companies, or have been deemed “uninsurable” by reason of preexisting conditions, such as asthma, diabetes, etc?
I think, should your government opt for government run health care, you will find that this control you speak of is simply the shouting of fearmongers. I see no government control of my life just because my government runs my health insurance.
Ah, you’re just a silly, brain washed Canadian.
Actually, Medicare is provided, by the ebil gubbermint, for anyone 65+. (There are some restrictions: you have to be a legal resident, etc — you could probably find online if you’re interested, but it’s pretty much everyone.) The problem with it is that it has chronically underpaid providers, so many providers don’t accept it for payment.
I know, Mabs, I know. It’s all the beer we drink that helps with the brainwashing.
Thanks for the infor. I know my knowledge on how things work in the US is limited to what I learn on tv and from movies, so I appreciate the corrections…when they’re so pleasantly given.
*gropes Mabs booty in thanks* Well, I am the booty wench
Hey! I’m trying to exercise here!
Seriously, we don’t have a health care system; we have a health insurance system. I don’t know how anyone who hasn’t dealt with it can figure it out when we have a hard time.
And I can tell you excercise. Nice booty!
Why, thank you, dear. I lost 12 pounds before the holidays
, then gained four back 
. Now I’m back to 12 down. Trying to get my bp to go down a bit.
Good for you!
My new year’s resolution is to join a gym. Not sure where I’ll fit that in with the two jobs, but hey, I’m wonderwoman, don’t you know?
I think you really need to consider what you’ll actually do versus lofty, beginning of the year goals. There are so many different options, and, of course, it depends on what your goals are.
Our weather is a wee bit nicer than ours, hence more conducive to outdoor activities, so a gym might be a better choice up there. I know a lot of people who have had success when they started something WITH someone else. Nothing like your friend calling and asking why you weren’t at the gym today.
I used to go to the gym and loved it (can’t run or walk long distances – bad knees, so the machines are perfect for me), but then I moved too far away. I’m rejoining with a friend. I’m thinking we’ll motivate each other as we tend to kick each other’s butts about everything else in life.
justa: Gonna sound cold, but frankly not my problem for those people. I can only worry about my immediate family (which I have signifigant medical procedures to pay for my 93 year old Grandma) I also know there are charitable and state run clinics which my taxes and or charitable donations pay for. I do not think it’s the government’s job to mandate Health Care. It will be a collasal failure and will sink this country farther into debt. The way our country is set up, it can not and will not work. Our government is inept at social programs, b/c the politicans are corrupt lying bastards who will take from any fund possible.
I disagree with the “not my problem” but you’re allowed your opinion.
(BTW, in Canuckland, I vote conservative just to blow your minds 
)
I don’t remember if you are one of the ones who think the Federal government should stay out of most things and let the individual states handle it (I remember the discussions, just not all the players), but anyway, here in Canuckia our health care programs are run on a provincial level. The Federal government contributes some money, but the provinces call the shots and run the show.
As for the government screwing anything up: Really? No, way! I thought all politicians were perfect and know what’s best for their consituents. /sarcasm
I believe heavily in State’s Rights, but even there I don’t believe in State Run Health Care. I’m a Capitalist at heart. I put my faith in Greedy companies rather than an inept greedy government. At least at a “local = State” level it’s a lot easier to get Schmucky deciscions levelled out. (less constituants to please).
Would you still be capitalist if you were poor and your loved ones were dying without health insurance?
Oh, Grandma’s too old to work and doesn’t have any retirment because she spent it paying Grandpa’s medical bills? Better take her out back and shoot her. Can’t afford to pay for her out of MY pocket, and you’re poor so you can’t pay. “Not my problem!”
I know you’re sitting there thinking “that can’t happen to me” but I assure you it could.
I wouldn’t ask someone else to pay it for me.
But since we’re doing Hypotheticals…. what if I was middle class, paying for Grandma and then the government said I had to pay for five other people’s Grandma’s and six illegals, and ten other children, so now I can no longer afford to pay for Grandma, all the while I’m losing my own Health Care.
Sorry The Steve, but I pay for three insurances (my own families, my Grams not covered by *gasp* the Government, and Medicare) I don’t feel like paying for four.
I didn’t say middle class. I said POOR. You CANNOT PAY for her.
Who pays?
You do Steve. B/c you’re such a better person than I.
OR she can go on Medicare and Medicaid…. Oh wait that’s run by the Government too, and has restrictions. Who’s to say the Government Health Plan will be any better than a companies. “Excuse me Ms. you are now at the bottom of the Transplant list b/c you forget to cross the T in your name. “
Nope. I’m like you, I don’t wanna pay. Medicare and Medicaid don’t pay for groceries and rent. What will she eat? Where will she live? Too bad there’s no social security program that takes care of the elderly. We voted that down because we’re haves and we don’t want to pay for have-nots.
Sorry, Grandma’s just gonna have to go homeless and starve to death on the streets.
Steve: If your Grandma needs a place to stay she can stay on my couch. It’ll only cost $1 a week.
Rando, the poor don’t need any more help. If we help the poor any more we’ll be paying them to go to the doctor, which, dagnabbit, some states might be doing…It’s people like you (and to some extent me, although my insurance sitch is better than yours) who would potentially benefit from a change to the health insurance industry. Potentially…although I am extremely dubious that the Frankenbill they’re currently constructing from spare bits of old AOL cds, carpet fluff, and duct tape will help anyone.
One other thing that has occurred to me through the insurance reform debate — if the government does something, whether it be an exchange and tax credits or the option of a public plan — that makes it possible for small business owners and independent professionals to buy insurance at a reasonable cost, that should have the effect of significantly increasing entrepreneurism in the United States.
Everybody knows people who would love to run their own business, but have to continue working for a big business or for the government because they can’t do without insurance and can’t afford to buy it on their own. In my opinion, this would be an awesomely good thing.
(On the other hand, the government telling me I HAVE to carry insurance or they’ll fine me makes me go “Wait a cotton-pickin’ minute here!”)
The government ALREADY tells you that, Diss. You drive, don’t you? Well…
Well, to be honest, the first time I heard the “everyone will be required to have insurance,” I thought “wait, what?” as well. I’m still a little shaky on it. If we’re not going to straight government-run health care, then it would seem like requiring insurance would be a bit harsh. But some of the reasons of requiring it do make sense to me, like the uninsured racking up massive health care costs and not paying, leaving the rest of us with the bill.
The poor may be covered by medicaid and the elderly and disabled may be covered by medicare, but frankly, they suck. We had to go on it several years ago, and even my crappy insurance now trounces it coverage wise. Yeah, it was free, but what was the point? I’d hate to leave any serious medical problems to medicaid to deal with. Hopefully a public option would be at least a little better than that.
I will also admit that the current health care bill worries me because I’m afraid by the time it passes it will be so watered down that no actual reform will come from it. It’s a catch-22. I want to see health care reform pass, but any health care reform that might actually pass will likely be pretty lousy. But I’m not giving up hope that some good might come from it.
The hopes are that it will prevent situations like not being able to leave an abusive job due to needing health coverage.
Or coming down with an urgent serious illness one month before the new job’s health coverage kicks in (happened to a family member–they will be paying off those bills for 3 years or more–and this was a blessedly short-term serious illness).
Yeah, ILPB, that sounds pretty cold. But I’m not gonna argue this with you again, because the conservative mindset of health care makes me want to vomit, and I don’t want to get that pissed off today. I can already feel my blood pressure rising just from reading your post.
Time to go pet a cat. A form of bloodpressure medication that the HMO’s can’t take from us!
The cat I got from my mom likes to poop on the floor. I don’t want to pet him today. LOL
He needs another litter box maybe?
Doesn’t your mom love you? O.o
A vet friend took a workshop on ‘problem elimination’ (that’s vet speak for ‘my dog/cat peed on my carpet’). She said that if there are ‘problems,’ the recommendation is # litter boxes = # cats + one. (So 3 boxes for 2 cats.)
My friend discovered that her cat did NOT care for the stinky kitty litter someone gave her.
Maybe Rando’s mom trusts him to love this cat anyway? Or train him? Although I’ve only had 2 poop on the floor incidents in my cat-owning adult life. Once when I accidentally closed the guy in the basement all night, and woke to the classic ‘steaming pile’. The other time was when my folks kept feeding my cat ham. “But he likes it!” Uh huh. But his digestive system did NOT…on the nice carpet. Blergh.
Good luck, Rando!
And if you train him, maybe you can come train my current guy-cat to bury properly?
I don’t know about ‘properly,’ but you can deter burying in selected areas by spreading cayenne or something similar about.
The problem with this cat is that he digs a lot, but doesn’t actually cover his fragrant ‘offerings’. XP
We have 3 cats. So 4 litter boxes??? OMG, the cost of litter alone will break me. *sobs* They currently have 2 boxes. And VG, none of our 3 cats have ever been very good at covering their, uh, prizes. One likes to dig and dig and dig and kick litter all over the place. I really really hate dealing with these cats.
Well, separating the boxes as much as possible was another suggestion. And you HAVE to use the enzyme stuff to make sure you eradicate the smell to help prevent repeats.
I’ve got 3 cats, 2 litter boxes. I figure this way I can get away with changing the boxes once per week. If someone would come up with a kitty toilet that the cats would use AND flush…? I would gladly have their baby for them!
VG, the “not burying” is a signal of dominance. In the wild a cat will leave its scat out to mark territory, so your cat (if it isn’t sick or something) is just letting you know it lives there.
Oh we ALL know he lives here. He’s the biggest, oldest, and he makes ‘hunting calls’ at times. Unfortunately, he isn’t the smartest. But loving to his peeps!
Actually, our poor and elderly DO have government-run health care (Medicaid and Medicare, respectively). The gap in our country is those in the middle, who make too much for Medicaid but not enough to make private insurance reasonably affordable. The guy who, say, works for a major retail corporation and has to pay 1/3 of his takehome pay for crappy insurance “coverage” that doesn’t cover much, or the small business owner; these are the people lacking coverage or care.
The poor and elderly have it quite good, coverage-wise, comparatively.
“What about Social Security, bus discounts, medical alert jewelry, Gold Bond Powder, pants all the way up to your armpits. And all those other senior perks. You ask me, old folks have it pretty sweet.”
While I’m not looking forward to the “stuff wearing out” part of getting old, I eagerly await my senior discount.
Pants on the ground, looking like a fool pants on the ground…..
A pox on you, Peanut Butter, for putting that stupid song back in my head…..*toddles off for brain bleach*
you don’t have to be old for the medical alert jewelry… i’ve had mine since i was about 13 – albeit the stainless steel fugly one. i got the fancy white gold one though when i was 20 and got diagnosed with my arthritis.
beg to differ on the poor being able to get medical from the government – here, if you don’t have a condition that keeps you from getting a job (like a criminal record or addiction), or you don’t have children under 5, pregnant, or a disability, you’re sol for medical coverage…. otherwise, i’d be covered for my diabetic supplies & more, not to mention i could get a second mamogram done because the one i got just be fore i lost my coverage came back with a spot that needed a second look…. yeah, not having a government option is going to help me – even if i went to work for a big company that offered medical, i have pre-existing conditions that won’t go away on their own…. would i pay for it, you bet your bippy i would, simply because there’d be enough members that it would be affordable (maybe) but private insurance isn’t an option for me because right now, it’s over $1500 a month, plus co-pays, deductibles, oh and guess what, almost everything that can go wrong with me can be linked back to a pre-existing condition which means it won’t be covered anyway….. never mind the fact that the only time i’ve been sick in the last 20 yrs was when i got food poisoning from pizza hut….
Yeah, I understand that. I still live with my mom so I can afford to pay health insurance out of pocket. It’s only 400 a month for me, but I’m young and theoretically healthy (which explains why I need insurance :S).
Out of curio(u)sity — what’s the typical Canadian perspective on the number of Americans without health care?
I believe the general thought is that the only people with access to health care in the States are people with lots of money. Some people are more educated about the US than others, most only know what they see on tv and movies.
I’ve learned a lot reading the discussions on here.
Hmm, okay, that about tracks with what I thought. (Not that the same thing doesn’t happen down here — I’ve been reasonably convinced that there’s a big difference between the number of Americans who are uninsured and the number of Americans who are uninsured, want to be, and don’t qualify for any other form of health care.)
As I understand it, Canadians tend to be pretty fiercely defensive of the health care system, too, so I suppose hearing it badmouthed from down below doesn’t help matters.
Eh, we’re pretty easygoing
While it has problems, I would say we’ve got a pretty good thing going. It does bother me when I hear a lot of misinformation being stated as fact (if our system is so good, why does everyone flee to the States or elsewhere for medical treatments, the government dictates which doctors we can and can’t see) etc. But I guess that’s true for everyone.
LOL! And we think all you guys drive dogsleds to work and live on maple syrup.
The real deal:
1) poor people in the US (as in “officially” poor) have basically “free” (to them) healthcare and BOY do they use it.
2) lower working-class type people sometimes have health insurance through their jobs, but often will have to pay for part of it. In addition, hefty copays and deductibles generally mean that in this group you think long and hard before you go to the doctor.
3) the more middle-class you are, the more likely you are to have decent insurance through your job and be able to cover the copays without pain.
4) exception to this rule: the small-business-owner or independent professional, who is normally stuck paying through the wazoo for crappy private coverage or gambling on not having anything disastrous happen health-wise
5) rich people….well, as usual, they’re set.
That breakdown is pretty much spot on, especially #2. And the other thing about people in group #2, if they do have health plans, they are generally so crappy that any major health problems generally get rejected by the provider. I’ve been lucky enough to be in group #3 for most of my adult life.
Well, thank you for the clarification! We’re the same here as far as coverage of eye care, dental, prescriptions, etc. You need insurance for that, unless you’re on welfare or a similar program. Rich people are set and the middle class are screwed because some companies offer benefits, others don’t.
Yep. This is about right diss, nicely done. The key here is that it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to just “buy” health insurance.
In the middle class, if you aren’t fortunate enough to have a job with benefits, you simply can’t afford insurance. It’s too expensive. Even if you have a relatively well paying job, people who are considered middle class can’t afford health insurance premiums/deductibles out of pocket.
There is a group before the rich, the HENRYs (high earners not rich yet). The group that falls just into the “rich” classification, eliminating all tax breaks like not being able to write off the interest paid on your half-million of student debt because you make too much and tripping that awful alternative minimum tax. Compound it by living in a state like California where rent on a small home is $2500. When you do your budget and find out you need to pull in $200,000 gross just to make ends meet – no saving/investing for retirement, no big purchases like finally getting a newer car to replace the 12 year old Corolla sitting in the driveway, no vacations, only whatever tv your antenna picks up – all the while the left side of the political spectrum is saying you don’t need to keep so much of that money, you wont miss it, and you’re trying to figure out how much you have to earn to afford the new taxes and if you can or if you have to move to another state with lower state taxes so the increase gets balanced out… *sigh* sorry for the random coming out of lurkdom to rant and ramble *inches back to lurkers’ shadowy corner*
Here hon, I think you need these more than me today.
*hands wifeypoo some cookies*
I’ll agree with justacanuck here… we up North here are mystified by you Yanks sometimes…
From the various news coverages, we’re led to believe that either the US will become a Nazi-esque socialist regime with death camps for those who cannot pay for their own health care… or that there’s a dichotomy between those who can afford to pay for their own health care and ‘everyone else’ (aka the middle or ‘working’ class)
As for politics, I will never vote Conservative… probably why justacanuck and I will never get married. Albertans scare me… lol
But, Blade, I’ve already picked out the colours for the wedding and everything!
Shhh, don’t tell my mom, but I actually admire Trudeau.
I won’t tell your mother that you actually like Trudeau if you won’t tell MY mother that I actually don’t really like Ignatieff… lol
This intrigues me, since I’ve only been to BC. Are Albertans known for being conservative? (And does the Canadian plug in think ‘Albertan’ is a word?)
Deal, Blade. But really, does anyone like Ignatieff? Oh, I and I can’t stand Harper, BTW.
Mabs, my spellcheck is fine with all the provinces
Albertans are the rednecks of Canada. Fiercely conservative, we’ve had a conservative government in place for longer than I’ve been alive. Our Premiers (equivalent to your governers) don’t get voted out, they retire. 
Just as a caveat ILPB, “if you don’t like your plan, change it” is simply not an option for most people covered through their employment. Most employers only offer one plan, or at most you can choose Plan A or Plan B from the same company, which normally isn’t much help. Switching jobs just to change insurance companies seems terribly impractical in this economy, not to mention going to the interview and asking the potential employer about the insurance — “Oh, you guys are with Cigna? Never mind.”
The reason most companies are going to those type of plans is simply the government interference. Even the federal government dropped four plans this year in anticipation of Obama Care. Funny how when the government was touting Health Care there were more options.
“Going” to? I’ve been working for over 25 years and I’ve NEVER once worked for a company that offered any options as far as carrier.
My employer switched to BC/BS without choices, simply because they couldn’t afford the rates of the other insurance companies any more.
I’ve had BC/BS through my job for several years. I can tell you what the “BS” stands for!
You don’t have BC/BS Federal program do you? $100 for my wife to have her baby. (That’s total including all sonograms, Dr. visits, Hospital stay, etc….)
Ah, you have insurance through a government job? That’s why you like it. Government jobs have the best benefits (for normal working people).
ILPB… that’s an extremely rare case. the company that i work for (a TPA) has a contract with anthem/bcbs to sell their network, plans and services. there is NO plan in existence now that has that sort of coverage. especially for pregnancy.
Mabs: Not anymore. Obama’s plan will be implemented through us first. And the only reason the government had said insurance was to get people from the private sector (b/c pay sucks) and the GREAT retirement plan went away.
Well, as you said, you can just change your health insurance then.
Then you’re lucky, ILPB. I have BC/BS & they hadn’t paid for a single thing last year. Thankfully I only had to use my insurance for 2 doctors’ office visits and 3 out-patient clinic visits for travel immunizations but, on top of my monthly $400 premiums, I’ve paid over $500 out of pocket (that’s including my $300 deductible). And I have the most expensive (best??) plan out of all the ones offered by my company. My sister, who works in a hospital, had to pay almost $5,000 in total to have her 2nd child, and she’s covered by “good” insurance.
No I can’t b/c the Government Controls it. Which is why I’m against it.
You said earlier today that if you don’t like your insurance company, you can pick a different company. Period. But now you can’t? You mean the government is controlling your insurance because you work for the government? Then don’t work for them. Seems as if that’s what you were suggesting for everyone else.
Well if Obama Care wasn’t going to be implemented then I would be ok. So I could vote out all the VA democrats who want OBama Care in November, then in 2012 we can vote in a Republican who can take Obama Care from the books forever, and I go back to my insurance. However I would’ve preferred NOT to have to do that.
So let me get this straight.
You want TAXPAYERS to pay for YOU to keep your top-notch health insurance. Health insurance that is far above and beyond anything that a private company can afford to offer.
But you don’t want the government to take money out of your check to help pay for other people’s health insurance.
Do you see where I’m going with this?
The government cadillac health benefits are wasteful spending that you should hate just as much as I do, but you don’t, because YOU benefit from them. I see it as a waste of my tax money giving a $50k a year employee benefits that you normally can’t touch unless you’re in a $100k+ executive position at a big company.
The Steve: The REASON the federal health program is the way it is (little history lesson for you) is b/c Civil Servants CAP out on their pay. IE a Civil Servant can make the same salary for ten years straight b/c they have maxed out their current position. Where a company will give people raises regardless of stature in the comapny, a civil servant is legally not allowed to get a raise. So to combat this the Federal Government (which pays a lot less than Private Inudstry as well) inacted an awesome Retirement plan. (60% of final pay after 55 if 20 years in, plus Health Care and benefits for family). Then in 1983 due to the economy, the federal governemnt had to stop such retirement plan, ut kept the Health Care (had to somehow keep the people in). So for the price of getting paid less than your worth (in the Job Scale market), chance of maxing out pay (usually around 13 years in if you don’t get promoted), the Government offers Health Care. So for the sacrafice of being a civil servant you get Health Benefits, so no, not wasteful spending. People actually make sacrafices to work for the federal government. So just like a Military retirement, Police retirement, Firefighter retirement, etc…. I don’t find it wasteful spending (and didn’t before I benefitted from it either).
This argument was valid when health insurance cost a lot less than it does now. Now the enormous cost of these government Cadillac plans (for that’s what they are) is much greater than the pay differential, especially when you add in the pension plans. When this started, the private sector was also offering pension plans, which almost no comparable private companies do any more. So the benefits WAY exceed any pay differential now.
Mabs: I beg to differ. My wife could earn $10K more in provate sector. My customers when retire from the Government into the private sector make another $30- $40K a year. It does not cost the government $10K – $40K a person per year for insurance.
Don’t forget about their pensions, mabs — even a low-paid government lifer can retire with a pension equivalent to a multi-million dollar 401(k) or IRA.
(Fun fact: employer-sponsored health care plans got started for much the same reason. After FDR capped wages during the Great Depression, employers needed to be able to compete for top talent, so they started offering non-salary perks like health insurance.)
Paying $100 for a baby? Granted people don’t have babies every year, but that right there tells you how much more the govt is paying versus a private company.
Well, yes, I believe I mentioned them. That’s why I said the ‘benefits’ (not just the health care) exceed the pay differential. Private sector employees are really lucky if their company contributes to their 401K, which is subject to market whims and not guaranteed as govt pensions are.
Mabs: BC/BS paid for the insurance, and BC/BS are notorious for under paying doctors. The Government spends $200 a month for our plan,. $200 * 12 = $2,400. Don’t forget we’re paying about $200 a month for our insurance as well (we opted to go with the Cadillac Plan, we coulda done the Ford plan). So if my math is correct $10K- 2.4K = 7.6K the government is saving a year.
MAbs and Dhoti: You do realize government pensions went away in 1983. Anyone hired after that (since my wife was 3 at the time she wasn’t a Fed) does not have the pension plan.
It would have been $50K for us. It WAS $10K for my sister. We used to joke about them repossessing my niece if they fell behind on the payment plan. At least the hospital let them pay over time, thank goodness.
But there’s still a retirement benefit plan, right, ILPB? Is it an annuity now?
Do I even dare tell you how much my son “cost” me when he was born?
$200 because my motorcycle club raised the money for me to have the special private birthing room. Please don’t hate the canuck.
Dhoti: Same thing as a 401K. Matches the same as typical Businesses.
Oh, well, there we go then — extra for the private birthing room….CANADIAN GOVT HEALTHCARE MAKES YOU PAY EXTRA IF YOU DON’T WANT TO GIVE BIRTH IN PUBLIC!111!!!!11elebenty!
Yeah, if you don’t pay the $200, you probably have to give birth in the lobby.
ILPB, USAJobs (assuming they’re correct) says there are three benefits, of which the TSP is only one. And if this TSP example is right, then the match was close to what generous employers were offering during the last boom, but way above what most everyone is doing right now.
Good lord, no, the lobby is considere semi-private. I would have had to give birth in the parking lot.
Do you have to pay extra for the moose midwife, or does that get thrown in for free?
In Calgary? Brr. Your parking lot can’t be very warm even in the summer.
Dhoti: See my comment above. The Government is on Par with most large Defense Contractors (only area I know). 4.5% of the first 6%.
@dhoti: I opted out of the moose midwife. Went for the caribou instead.
@mabs: And it was mid December. How’s that for cold?
Large defense contractors offer the BEST benefits for non-union private sector employees.
Nucky, I’m certainly glad your ‘gang’ ponied up for the room, then. *shivers*
ILPB — so what’s the “defined benefit component based on years of employment and salary history” that USAJobs refers to? That’s not the 401(k)-like thing, right? (And there’s also something there about a “social security benefit” — but I don’t know if that’s something special, or just their dumb way of saying “you have a job, so you’re paying into SS”.
Ah — the last companies I looked at were in finance, technology, and consulting, so there could definitely be an industry difference at work. (The last time I looked at defense contractors was after college, and I think I remember them offering lower salaries but more defined benefits.) Maybe that’s something they need to do to help them recruit ex-gov’t types.
ILPB – your numbers are totally BS. there is no way your cadillac plan only costs $400 a month. your portion may only be $200/month but the government is CERTAINLY paying more than $200. even with the buying power they have they can’t possibly get that sort of deal. a big part of my job is answering RFPs… and there is no way we could propose (let alone sell and then successfully implement) a plan of the caliber you’re talking about for that fee. we have a company with only 7500 belly buttons (rather than doorbells… i.e. covered members vs. eligible employees) and we get almost 9million from their plan premiums alone. that comes out to at least $100 per member, per month. and trust me, they don’t have a premium plan.
Shorty: Then the Gubberment is lying to us when we sign up for Benefits. (It says how much it cost both the Insurere and the Government)
@mabs:
Actually, I had three types of rooms available (note the birthing rooms are all private, these are convalescent rooms): semi private (2 people), private and then “special” private (looks and feels more like a hotel room, comes with tv and phone, etc.).
Ahah! That’s where all our health care dollars go! It’s for the phones and TVs in the hospital rooms.
Justa: Wow Canada is below the US in terms of Birthing. Pretty much all rooms come with a TV in American Hospitals. Us Americans can’t live without our TV. Canda = savages with no TV.
BTW, Nucky, now my knee hurts. I think you jinxed it.
From my experience, not much point in having a tv in your room where you recover after giving birth, because about the time you take a good nap they’re getting you ready to go home.
Actually, I was so sick after my c-section that I don’t remember if there was a TV or not. But most hospital rooms I’ve seen have them.
We have to pay extra for tv and phone in the room. It’s fairly cheap though, like $10 or $15 per week or day (I don’t remember, it’s been a while).
If I had a semi private room (ie with a roommate) I would pay extra NOT to have a TV. There’s some real trash in the perinatal rooms.
Actually, I would pay not to have them in waiting rooms.
UMM what’s the father supposed to watch if there’s no TV? You actually expect him to pay attention to the sleeping wife and baby? GEEZ!! Communists!~!!
@ILPB: Well…the father could go to work. Or go home and get stuff ready at the house, so she’s not coming home to a mess!
@diss and ILPB: My husband went to the bar.
Nucky, this is the now ex,yes?
My husband was either at work, with an insane boss who couldn’t understand why he wanted to go to the hospital to be with his wife who was freaking dying, or trying to get the doctors to talk to him. /rant, rant, mutter, mutter
Mabs, yes, he is the now and forever more ex.
Off topic, but in relation to employers: my dad passed away while I was at work (it was expected), I called my boss and she wanted to know if I would finish my shift because “you weren’t very close to him anyway”
I spent the night in the Hospital room in the “fold out chair”. And by spent I mean panicked on the first diaper change, and called the nurse every ten minutes b/c my wife wheezed.
But you know I’m a selfish prick who ants 300+ million Americans to die, specifically the elderly and children.
*mutters*
Selfish prick..
@nucky. I hope that is an ex-boss, too? Jeez!
Nucky: Sorry so long to type back to you, didn’t see the post. How about this tell me the boss, where he parks, and I’ll have the Nut Kicker come visit him (or *unt Kicker if it’s female)
Most people I know have ONE choice of health care insurance, unless they have the money to buy independent of their employment. We don’t because my husband’s company employs 60K+ people. But even they have been dropping choices…since long before Obama even declared his candidacy, so it’s ridiculous to say that’s why they’re doing it.
It’s why the Federal Government did. The came right out and said it. It’s scary for Federal Employess right now, b/c they’ll probably lose the cushy Health Plan and be the Guenea Pigs for Obama Care.
Holy sh1t. All this time you’re on Government insurance already?!?
You’re living in a fantasy world. Out here in the real world (non government employees) our companies are all trying to find ways to cut costs to remain profitable, and one of the highest overhead costs is employee health insurance benefits.
Just because your employer has no need to turn a profit or cut expenses you have been living with health insurance that is now unheard of in the real world unless you’re making over $75,000 a year or so and have a very nice benefit package.
In my 10 years in the workforce at 3 different employers I have not gone more than 2 years without seeing the company cut benefits or change providers to cut costs.
When was the last time they cut your benefits?
I worked for a company that presented 12 options last year (jumped to my wife’s federal plan when she went govy).
Even before that I always had good Health Insurance, (even when I was a “Blue Collar” boy straight out fo college).
Seriously, ILPB. WTF???!!! You are on a government health-care plan and you’re fvcing complaining??!! You’re complaining that your benefits MAY be slashed a wee bit???!!!
HOW: Yes I am. Why would I vote to slash my benefits? That’s kind of like a DoD Contractor voting for a Candidate who doesn’t believe in the Military.
ILPB,
So which is it? Government health care is ‘cushy’ or it sucks? Please, do, choose a side.
I too have government health care and I happen to think it works pretty well.
I pay premiums (which I believe are actually TOO reasonable), co-pays and the like and the care is available as long as I go through the proper channels…
My ‘primary provider’ has to do all referrals, I am not permitted to see a dermatologist, urologist, etc. without a referral…
But, all in all, a workable plan (with tons less waste and fraud than Medicare), so the government can do something right, occasionally.
If you ALREADY have government health care, and you like it, why are you against government health care?
I’d really like to understand this line of reasoning, since almost every person I’ve talked to who is against government health care has no other health care besides government health care… How do you know private health insurance is ‘better’ if you have never had it?
SemperGunny let me summarize his views: $$$
He hates government health care if it means his taxes go up to pay for others.
He loves government health care if it means his premiums go down because our taxes pay for it.
He’s voting for whatever benefits him the most financially, and nothing further IMO.
Semper: Government Health Benefits right now are REALLY GOOD, Government Run Health Care will be REALLY BAD. Big difference. I get Private Insurance through my wife’s job, through the Government, but I don’t want Government Health Care, especially what is being presented.
The Steve: See above and get off your pompous horse. So you think we should take away Health Care for Military Personnel? How about Police Officers?
And who do you think contracts for, pays for and regulates the benefits of this “private” insurance that you have?
What I hear you saying is you like ‘your’ government health care, you just don’t want anyone else to be able to have what you have obtained through marriage to a government employee.
And if your wife gets fired? or laid off?
I know it’s a long shot, but what if? Do you have ANY idea how much ‘private’ insurance (which is only private if it is NOT subsidized by the government, which yours is) costs?
I mean I like my subsidized health insurance too, but I am willing to share with my fellow citizens, even if it means my premiums will go up some…
Because I am really tired of seeing change jars at every gas station in town begging for money so some poor child can get chemotherapy or a liver transplant…
So ILPB, is your wife a Service Member, or a Police Officer?
Or she just some government drone sucking the taxpayers dry? Isn’t that the party line… Government = evil, lazy, good-for-nothings?
Again, hate the government all you want, but biting the hand that feeds you comes off as a bit ungrateful, and insincere, don’t you think?
If you REALLY hate government health care, you can always remove yourself from it…
Semper: Yes I know what private businesses are offering for Health Care (get the Benefits sign up every year).
So what you’re saying since I’m married to a Fed I shouldn’t enjoy the benfits of her job? So does that mean your family shouldn’t benefit from your insurance? I’ll keep that in mind at the polls next time (sarcasm)
I differ. I do not think Constitutionally that the Government has a right to run the Health Care System. I do not live in a Socialistic Country, our founding fathers did not find this country as a Socialistic Country. So I do not want a Big Government. Guess what, I have that pesky little document you swore to defend behind me as well.
If you want to help those children (as do I, but I want it to be MY choice, not forced) then put the pennies in the jar. Give to a Charity (won’t tell y’all how much I gave to the Ronald McDonald foundation), BUT don’t force me and push YOUR morals on me. (Isn’t that the liberal montra to Christians?)
I’m not about to ask you to actually identify your employer, but can you confirm that they are, in fact, a very large corporation with thousands of employees? Because in my experience, small to mid-size companies just don’t do this; that’s the realm of the Microsofts, the Xeroxes, the Boeings….not McBoxy’s Box Manufacturing Company or MidSize Oil Refinery or even major retail chains.
Semper: You don’t get it. I don’t trust the Politicains within the Government.
I never said federal employeess were bad, not once. I hate the Politicians and the beauracrats.
Wow, you really think I hate the Government? I don’t. I don’t trust the Government to run my health care. I don’t want the Government in my private life. I love my country, and I don’t want the Government to grow out of control (as it is doing). I love my personal freedoms.
OHHHH look a liberal decided to use the”love it or leave it” that they hated so much from us EBIL conservatives. Hypocrite says “What?”
The only places I know of that do this are either directly or indirectly govt. E.g., the Univ of CA system offers great choices (or did several years ago) because they have HUGE numbers of employees. Defense contractors usuallyalso offer good plans (indirectly govt). They were some of the last to end pension plans.
BTW, ILPB, you are correct, the govt plan no longer offers pensions, but their retirement is still WAY better than comparable private sector. (My husband was offered a govt job last year so we read all that stuff.)
Diss: BAE Systems (fortune 500), so yes a very large company.
Of course half we subsets of each other, Lead or Platnum plans. another fourth were HMOs.
Mabs: The Government is equal to or about the same as the Alion Science, CSC, BAE Systems, Northrup Grumman, Lockheed Martin, Booze Allen Hamilton, Gibbs and Cox plans. (Did some job hunting last year)
diss – we have a client that has 19,000 eligible employees and we cover about 40,000 lives of theirs… even with that volume they only have 5 plans. 3 PPO plans and 2 high deductible plans. a place with 12 plans is either really stupid or stupidly huge and neither of those is the norm.
First, why would you assume I am liberal? I never stated my political affiliation (Independent, FYI).
Second, I am not pushing morals on anyone. I made a statement about how I, personally, felt (And that DOES happen to be a civil right, by the way)
Third, I never said anything remotely like ‘love it or leave it’.
I said if you are so unhappy with your health insurance provider, you are free to choose a different one, but you should not be free to deny others from choosing the one you have.
I’m afraid the other posters are correct. You seem to feel that all government perks and benefits are fine as long as YOU are the one taking them… anyone else getting those same benefits, not so much…
Yes, I get some government benefits too (which I earned, by the way, with 21 years of my life, much of which spent in places you can’t even imagine) but, because I am not selfish enough to deny the very benefits I am currently enjoying to my fellow citizens, I am the hypocrite?
Semper:
I thank you for your service. However you want to judge me, b/c I do not want Nationalized Health Care.
As for pushing your morals on me, you want me to pay for people to have Health Care who aren’t Civil Servants, Military, or Police, etc….. I’m sorry but I’m willing to pay taxes to those who were willing to get paid less to serve the US Government, but not for everyone in the country. It’s not the Government’s job. (I felt this way before I benefitted from this so no I’m not a hypocrite.)
“If you REALLY hate government health care, you can always remove yourself from it” Since Obama Care will be nationwide, to remove myself from it will have me leave the country.
Also one thing I think you’re completely missing is that my family gets it’s Health Insurance from the Government, not its Health Care. In Obama’s plan the Government would replace BC/BS in terms of the insurance my family currently has. So I would in turn probably take bakc up with my company’s insurance (yes leave the US Health Care).
I’ve never had any company I’ve ever worked for or even applied for offer any choice of plan whatsoever.
ILPB
Where in the bill does it say you HAVE to get the government’s plan? As far as I’ve read, the mandate is to get insurance period. Not necessarily the government’s insurance.
That’s a part of the Bill. The Rest of the Bill (going on in back alley deals) is the “Public Option”. Basically what will happen is the Government will take over Health Care, and not “force” people to have insurance.
[citation needed]
No, he’s right. If you’re forcing people to get insurance that they don’t want or can’t afford in the middle of a recession, then by default they have to go to the government plan. So there’s a bunch on your gov’t plan already.
Also, by undercutting the cost of insurance (the gov’t doesn’t have to actually make money, and if it’s short, can print what it needs), it will force other insurance companies to charge less to keep people on, eventually causing them to charge less than their actual overhead and go out of business. Since those people are no longer insured, then they’re on the gov’t plan.
Also, you’ve got employers who are being taxed on their insurance plans and will decide that it’s cheaper to just not offer insurance to their employees. So those people who were dropped by their companies will go to the gov’t plan, since it’s “free.”
It’s a systematic way to get people over to the government plan by forcing them to have a plan in the first place. It’s taking away the rights of Americans, and it’s shameful that our government is actually going along with it.
The best way to get competition in between the insurers (which is the premise behind this bill, lowering cost by increasing competition) is not to add one more insurer who doesn’t have to play by the rules of profit and marketibility. It’s to open up the lines of competition by allowing the buying of insurance over state lines. That way my company can start buying insurance from Texas, which is a hell of a lot cheaper and covers more than the crappy stuff we have from Mississippi. This forces costs to go down to a more reasonable rate, opening the doors for more people to afford insurance on their own.
If you really want to insure those 20 million people who can’t get insurance now, take all that money you were going to spend to force healthcare through over 10 years and just buy them a policy. The scrabbled together crap they have now doesn’t even insure the “most needy” that they said were the main driving force behind this bill in the first place.
I like that idea froo I really do, but just taking a bunch of money and giving it to the poor uninsured.. isn’t that like… a huge re-distribution of wealth?
*wink*
Otherwise… the only thing I have to say is your plan sounds…..
BELGIAN!!!11!!1!
and MURDRERS PUPPEES!!!E!ebenty!11!
And I agree with what you said. Good show.
I’m not pushing redistribution, but hell, if you’re going to spend that much damn money, you might as well do some good with it!
And I think we just divided by zero. Someone call the Mop Girl!
Well, just to restore order in the universe, let me say no to that idea. I believe that the whole for profit insurance/health care system is the root of our problems with health care, so I certainly don’t want to give them more money. Now if you specified a not-for-profit system (like the one I have), then it might work.
*stands next to mabs* What she said.
I do believe treating health care as a “business” is about as silly as calling water purification the “water business”. You’ll live significantly less without either of them, so they shouldn’t be for-profit to begin with. That’s always been my opinion. Health care should be a service, more like a corps… like the military… Imagine if we spent the same amount of money on health care as we do our military, that would be amazing.
That’s assuming your government actually WANTS you to live longer, particularly when you’re a drain on the economy rather than a taxpaying asset…LOL!
I think paying taxes has a bit more to do with how much money you have, rather than how old you are.
Naturally! But the longer you live, the more of a drain you become, hence… why offer you healthcare, again?
Well we just can’t let old people die. Then we’d have to let all the old guys in congress die too to be fair. Which isn’t a bad idea, but good luck convincing congress of that.
Of course we can! Pile ‘em on an ice floe, and shove ‘em off the edges of the frigid Arctic with a schloppy buncha whale blubber! Yay new congressional retirement plan! Woot!
Actually, since we already provide healthcare for people 65+, which is the highest cost period for most people, it is actually in our best interest to keep Rando healthy enough to keep paying into the system until that age. THEN we can bump him off.
Pfuh, I’d rather have a government agency that answers to me making those decisions than some faceles multinational that just tells me “tough f*cking sh*t.”
Which is what a government agency would tell you. They don’t care about you.
They answer to me. They work for me. They exist because I give them permission to. I am a voter. Without the permission of the voters, the government doesn’t do squat. Are you this unfamiliar with the concept of government by consent of the people? And spare me the wackjob conspiracy theories please.
Awww… it’s cute how you think any government agency outside of the IRS gives a damn about who you are as an individual, save for a distraction from Minesweeper and pron!
Tell you what, sweetcheeks, back up what you’re saying with anything that might possibly be interpreted as something other than bullcrap and I might actually give it a little credence. Otherwise you’re just another of the endless ranks of marching morons you see on these boards. HTH. HAND.
Back up what? That your government doesn’t give two sh!ts about you as an individual? You’re long overdue for a trip to the DMV, sweetcheeks. But WOW are you amusing!
The DMV is underfunded and understaffed for the amount of work actually associated with what is vehicle records as a whole. Think of every single person you know, or house that you see, where there’s a car. The DMV serves each and every single one of them. Now think about how many people work at your local DMV office. My own personal example, the local DMV where I live services around 23,000 people. And there’s 4 listed DMV officers/officiants at that office. In a given year (even if they were open on national holidays) thats roughly 65 people per day, If each of the officers worked everyday, every hour the office was open, they would each have to serve 16 people everyday, in order to get everything done in a year. And guess what, I live in a small town area, in bigger cities, the ratio is staggeringly higher.
There are many government agencies that are underfunded considering the workload that actually surrounds them. So lighten up. Not every government agency “Doesn’t give two sh*ts”, some just can’t afford to.
Seriously, Max-ol-bean? Your diatribe just MADE his point! LOL!!! They can’t afford… to care!!! ROFLMAO!!!!
Meh, just saying, of all the government agencies, the DMV is like picking the ghetto of any city and talking about how torn down it looks. It’s the freakin ghetto… what do you expect?
All I gotta say is… after the Patriot act, you don’t think the Department of Homeland security doesn’t care a whole helluva lot about you as individual, do you?
Apparently not, Max. After all, they let the doosh-wad with the maxipad-manpanty bomb, whose name was on Santa’s naughty list, onto that planeload-a innocents,didn’t they?
Actually, it was a tampon, not a maxipad.
He had it shoved up his mangina? O.o
The only logical thing I can reply to that one Obvious is…
I’m Old Greg!
Also, in a clearer response to earlier, it wasn’t us who let him on the plane. So that’s kind of external from the argument.
Yeah, seems the terrorists are getting marginally smarter and boarding planes outside the US where security is more lax.
forge, you may think that, but the truth is they work for the special interest with money and who can lobby for what they want. Remember it takes a huge amount of dough to run a successful campaign. Are they doing what the people want right now? We want health care FIXED. What they are doing is a big government power grab that will change nothing, except put the power and more tax $$ in their pockets.
Pardon me whilst I set my hair on fire and shriek about the “special interests.”
Them’s the breaks, Rando. Hate to tellsya.
Well. Sounds like it sucks here. Yay, America! Nothing united about it.
Rando the United refers to the States, the people, well we hate each other… YAY melting pot!!!
Ever melted a 64 box of Crayolas? It comes out this evil looking, brackish, nasty looking puddle of goo.
Just sayin’.
*nasty-smelling. Heh.
We are united in hatred…of each other.
United as in the airline? As in they unite the passenger with their destination (however luggage is optional in that contract)
To blatantly rip off Linus from Peanuts, “I love America. It’s Americans I can’t stand!!!”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA….sniff. LOL!!!
Best laugh for AGES!
The government does nothing without the consent of the people.
So. Much. FAIL!!!! Can’t fix teh stoopid.
I’m sorry, what country do you live in again?
LOL! You’ll get more O2 to your brain, and you may even begin to evolve, if you breathe through in through your nose and out through your mouth. Try it! It’s FUN!
Well I’ve run out of space to reply, but I just wanted to ask if you were ever going to say anything of consequence or if all your responses were going to be nothing but LOL and insults. Because y’know, you really haven’t even said why you think anything I’ve said is “stoopid,” just that it is. Do you have any content, or are you just a depleted can of fart smell?
LOL! The US government does EVERYTHING without the consent of the people.
Fixed that for you…. or did you personally consent to everything from the brand of toilet paper used in the president’s personal crapper to the Iraqui invasion?
Remember: IN through the nose, OUT through the mouth.
Actually, regardless of which country you live in, the adage “the government does nothing without the consent of the people” can be considered a truism, when consent is understood to include implied consent through inaction. It’s the basis on which our country was founded. Some of the more radical elements on the right have been using this as a call for rebellion (which is sometimes called for, but I don’t think this is one of those cases).
“Implied consent through inaction.” Yup. That pretty much sums up the current administration… lol!!! And many others, as well
It’s the inaction of the governed I’m referring to, not the governing. Many would prefer those governing to act less (i.e., something along the lines of the best government being the one that governs least). I don’t fall into that camp, but I can occasionally sympathize with it (especially when it’s the other party in power).
I love a government that is mostly inactive. hmmmmmmm Politicans doing nothing but arguing…. that’s a nice site.
Oh, they’ll tell you “tough fu(king sh!t” all right: the only difference will be that it’ll be filed in triplicate.
ILPB the US healthcare system is shameful its as simple as that. Would you privatise your fire departments and turn them into for-profit corporations? Would you do the same with your police force? How about your schools? Or your libraries?
Now I admit the public option isn’t perfect (waiting lists for elective non life threatening surgery can be astronomical for example) and I think there is room for a private sector within a national healthcare system, just as there is in education but the health of every single one of your citizens regardless of wealth or political divides or employment is every bit as important as a quality education.
For fvcks sake a homeless guy in Canada or UK or Australia or France or any western country except the US has access to better healthcare than most US citizens. Now why is that bad? Also why is it a bad thing that doctors get paid more to keep people healthy instead of being paid by insurance companies to keep people sick or deny them care?
Seriously you guys have your ideas about health coverage backwards all because you’re afraid of your government but you’re not afraid of your biggest corporations who have the combined social conscience of a gnat????
Governments should be afraid of their citizens not the other way around. When did the so called “greatest democracy in the world” lose sight of that fundamental principle of democracy?
It’s already been established that ILPB’s view of health care is whatever benefits him most is the right path. The other 300+ million Americans aren’t his problem. I wouldn’t bother arguing with him over it.
Here let me explain this to you. I believe in Government Subsidized Health Care for Civil Servants (same thing you’d get from a company), I have no problems with them keeping said benefits after retirement (due to being paid less than they are “worth” and having salary caps). I’m for some form of Health Care Refrom, however I AM not for Government Subsidized Health Care for the general public. I felt this way prior to my wife getting a Fed job. I would feel this way without my wife having said benefits. I’ve worked around and in the DC culture for the last 9 years, and see some qualified people under paid by a good $50K. I’ve seen people stay within their job (post ’83 Retirement Plan) vice retiring and making over six figures, b/c they feel they can do more good where they are. If people want to make a general rule that all individuals must serve in the National Guard, Military, etc… by all means let them get said Health Benefits. But I’m not for just giving it out, not into Dire Straights Song “Money for nothing…..”
You want Health Care cheaper, let’s address the Insurance Doctors need to have in order to fight frivilous lawsuits, let’s due some government tax breaks for companies that offer more than one Health Plan, Tax breaks to insurance companies that have better coverages, incentives vice forcing people. That’s my thoughts. Don’t force your morals upon me…..
I want health care affordable for everyone. Period. I don’t just fault the insurance companies. I fault the entire goddamn system for being a complete failure to the people they’re supposed to help. I think the ENTIRE health care industry is more concerned about their bottom line than actually helping people. You think making it more capitalistic will make health care better, inspire doctors, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, and insurance companies to do better to earn people’s trust. I think it just gives them more freedom to screw us over to make an extra buck. In a perfect world, maybe you’d be right, and the competition would make for the world’s greatest doctors fighting night and day to be superdoctors to make that extra dollar from the next doctor down. But that just isn’t the case.
Rando: I believe we want the same thing, our fellow citizens healthy and happy, however our means to do it are different. As said I don’t think it’s the government’s job to do it.
Once again people get pissy and upset when morals are pushed upon them, you by judging me for my take on health care is the same thing. JUST b/c it’s your morals, doesn’t mean I and the rest of the country have to agree to it. You think it’s the job of the haves to provide for the have nots forcably, I think it’s a personal freedom for the haves to choose to help the have nots. Don’t you think there will be some resentment from the “haves” being forced to provide for the “have nots”? And I’m by no means a “have”. I’m middle class through and through, started off Blue Collar as well (got laid off by age of 23, luckily got a job in Government Contracting, but had to move 300 miles away from friends and family to do so). I DON’T WANT greedy politicains controlling things in my life. I want to look out for myself, I’m a big boy, I can make grown up decisions. By you wanting the Government to control, you’re taking away MY personal freedoms, and I can’t have that. It is MY choice. If th e government can’t tell a woman what to do with her body (which I support), then the government can’t tell me I have to support other people financially. AND that my friend is what most of the people on the post are missing, it’s not the helping my fellow citizens (I do that through other means, which if Obama Care goes through WILL stop, can’t afford it anymore), it’s I want it to be MY choice, IE Personal Freedom.
From Rando, 19th Jan @ 3:56PM “I’m losing close to half of my paycheck with higher premiums and rising deductibles”. Do you honestly think that a situation line that is sustainable? I (UK) pay about 33% of my paycheque to all national taxes (including healthcare, a “socialised” military…) and a pension fund that will let me retire on about half my final (year of retirement) salary.
So where the feck is all the US healthcare money going if not on service provision (and it’s well documented that it’s not going there based on indepentant league tables of spending and care standards)?
Paws: TO BS projects that both Repubs and Dems come up with to keep their local constituants happy. IE… 12 people to watch 1 man work (government highway contracts), earmarks, etc……
That is why I don’t want the Government handling Health Care. Politicians are inept at keeping the money in the right places.
You’re not actually answering the question; why is your existing healthcare system such a total money sink that the UK can spend a lower proportion of constituant income on all central Government expenditure than your private healthcare spends on it alone, and the UK still has a better healthcase system? Your argument about what you perceive as inefficiency is clearly flawed, because the UK spends less on better healthcare, despite our system being funded centrally (but most admin, say of PHP practices and hospitals) is done at about county level (specifying county as an approximate indicator of geographic area and population).
It’s called Malpractice Insurance. It’s called overpriced equipment. But most doctors tell me it’s Malpractice Insurance.
So you’re saying that profit margins on equipment and malpractice insurance suck down about 2/3 of the US healthcare spend? I’m sure you can see why that’s hard to believe.
Well, some of the “cost” is insurance company profits and ski boats and 6000 square foot houses for doctors (I know, not ALL doctors, but enough to make you generalize.)
6_000 sqft is only about 55 feet each way over 2 floors; I’ve lived in a house that sort of size bought off the outright sale of one typical property, the exchange of another, and my Dad’s average UK salary.
“justa: Gonna sound cold, but frankly not my problem for those people. I can only worry about my immediate family”
Your words, not mine. This is one reason I hate the health care debate. Because it makes otherwise decent sounding people end up sounding like total jackasses. And while overall I like you, reading your posts on this thread has really got on my nerves.
Almost nobody in this country can feasibly switch. Most of the insured can only afford it because their company pays the insurance companies out the nose to subsidize it. If private insurance wasn’t $12,000/year for any plan worth having I’d be 100% in agreement. But as it is your ‘choice’ is imaginary for anyone other than the rich.
The only reason I have a good plan now is because I work for a health care company that owns it’s own insurace division. And I still pay out the nose for it.
For the most part, you are correct. If you have an HMO, you usually can only see doctors from that plan. If you go outside their list, you will pay out of pocket. If you have health insurance, you usually can see any doctor who will take that particular insurance. That can be extremely limiting, depending on your insurance. The healthcare system I have my HMO through, for example, will not accept Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance. This actually affects a lot of people because both are huge here (by percentages).
Also, if you change jobs, you usually change your insurance, which means you usually have to change doctors. And since benefits are redone annually, your employer can switch your insurance options every year if they choose. Large companies may give you an option; smaller companies usually only have one choice.
Coverage of medication and procedures is up to the HMO/insurance company. I have known many people who could not get the drugs their doctors choose without paying for it out of pocket.
I’ve had my insurance changed twice at my current job, and the second change was to BC/BS, no other options. And I have found Massachusetts BC/BS to be rather snarky about asthma medication coverage.
My coverage is decent, but I only have one option with my company. The problem is the premiums have gone up astronomically every single year. I’m losing close to half of my paycheck with higher premiums and rising deductibles. That’s the biggest reason I’m trying to leave my work now. I can’t keep bringing home less and less money.
Nope. Sorry Canuck. My health care plan allows me to choose my doctor. Granted s/he has to be in the network but it is a HUGE network. Even when I was in an HMO I got to choose who my primary was.
And if it is so great in Canada, why are so many of you crossing the border to get health care?
You need to stop the brainwashing and stop accepting all of the anti-healthcare reform commercials as the whole truth.
I bet you $10, HOW, that if you track down the groups that are funding those and get a list of their boards, that insurance executives are quite well represented.
Just a guess, here….
But, but, but his favorite conservative pundit told him it was true! They NEVER lie, right? Only those filthy liberals who want to take all the noble conservatives’ money for themselves are the liars! That’s what Rush Hannibeck told me!
WellDUH’s post Broken down:
Post Denial.
Make a statement, then add a contradictory statement without the context of a general qualifier.
Recite a baseless statistic about another person’s native country.
Nice…. real nice.
That was more than I could figure out.
I always think it’s interesting that there’s never been a SINGLE Canadian on here with serious complaints about their health care, let alone one — one! — who has come to the US for care. There was one with dual citizenship who returned to Canada for care, though, lol.
The silent Canadian majority can’t afford to be on the internets. They’ve spent all their money traveling to America for health care.
*smacks ISO with a rolled-up newspaper* Back to your corner!
LULZ.
Advocating for teh debil is teh exhausting!
*cringes and poos on Rando’s floor*
GODDAMMIT I’m sick everyone pooping on my floor! First the cats, now the annoying new guy!
Well, a water bottle might work with the cat, but I think you’re going to need to borrow my stun gun for ISO. *hands Rando the stun gun*
Whoahohohoho. This is gonna be fun. Zappy zappy!
*sh!ts more. Blames it on the retarded cat*
Health-care interests spent $1.4 million PER DAY on lobbying (insurance companies spent $700K). So, I’m going to bet that you’re right. From a personal perspective, I have family in Canada and none of them have experienced or heard of these so-called “socialized medicine horrors”.
Now, are those Canadian or US $10?
Liberian.
@WellDUH: “YOUR” healthcare plan allows you to choose, from what I understand, not all of them do.
And it’s a big misconception that we’re crossing the border to get health care. I don’t know of anyone that has done that, but I do know it happens. Usually, because the person is seeking something that is not approved here or they want to get ahead of the lines and can afford to. Yes, we have some long waiting times for non-emergency specialists/procedures, etc., but it’s nowhere near as bad as is portrayed. It seems to be a moslty just talking point used by fearmongers down there (the US).
Social Security was created to keep the poverty stricken elderly from starving to death. Which was happening in the great depression. I’ve got good enough savings, so I’ll gladly give up my share to help those less fortunate-. Because I know there are folks like a friend of mine who developed MS. She can’t work a full week, but is still working–but she won’t be able to put enough away to retire, given her out-of-pocket medical expenses. –and it isn’t her fault that her parents are spend-thrift idiots.
I’ve got asthma, so yes, I DO think smoking should be restricted in public. Because otherwise I CAN’T GO IN PUBLIC! So your ability to smoke indoors ends at my lungs. And in the past year, the smoke which clings to your clothing is enough to bother me.
Trans fats? Yeah, whatever. I don’t care enough.
National health care? We’re an embarrassment as the only first-world nation with second and third world health care. It is great in this country if you are loaded. Otherwise, the insurance companies have you by the short hairs. Death panels? The HMOs already have them–’you have exhausted your lifetime benefits, Mr Jones.’
On smoking, ditto. Only time I ever got bronchitis was from being in a venue that allowed smoking. Government did not arbitrarily ban smoking; most places I have lived PEOPLE voted to ban it or at the very least flooded meetings and other public methods and begged for smoking restrictions. The majority of people do NOT smoke and most of them do not want to breath other people’s smoke.
Sorry VG: I disagree with your assessment. I all of those as government controlling, which I do not want.
Social Security is a waste of my money. If it was being used for what it was intended, sure whatever still don’t like it, but really it’s another federal tax used to fund social programs I don’t agree with. I’m pissy about it b/c I’m saving two retirements, one for me and one for someone else (how is that just?)
Well you know what I can’t go in public where there’s someone who reeks (bad gag reflex), my friend has a peanut allergy as do many other people in the world, should we outlaw peanuts on the street?
“Yeah, whatever. I don’t care enough” That’s the voice of someone who only cares about their own wants and desires. So you can take away someone else’s right to trans fat, but since I don’t care so much, meh. What if it was something you enjoyed? (Not that I’m a trans fat addict, I just don’t think the government should be involves)
National Health Care is a joke. Another let the haves pay for the have nots, b/c it’s their “civic morality”. don’t push your morals on me. (sounds familiar doesn’t it?)
Peanuts are only a danger to an allergic person if they are in a confined area, or they have somehow been aerosolized. They have been banned in many schools (because kids eat each other’s treats), and some airlines, which makes sense to me.
People who eat peanuts do not tend to exhale peanut fumes all over their neighbors. Cigarette smokers have directly exhaled smoke onto non-smokers (sometimes intentionally), and often smokers are not careful of being down-wind. The smoke remains suspended in the air for very long period of time after the cigarette is extinguished, and does not remain on one side of any boundary–it can creep through cracks in walls quite easily, as a couple friends with smoking neighbors have found.
Smoke and other volatile chemicals cause airway spasm, and also arterial spasm, and therefore can cause immediate as well as long term damage to the non-smokers nearby.
Trans fats are not immediately toxic in the same way. I can see the public health dept’s point of view in banning them, and I can also see the freedom of choice point of view. Which is why I don’t have a particular opinion on the topic.
I was flippant in my wording up above, because I really am bothered by folks who do not understand the impact of smoking on those who do not smoke. Not being able to breath is f-ing scary!
As for social security and national health care, I think I’ll leave that lie. I know that my opinion is firmly held, and I suspect that yours is also.
There are people with such Peanut Allergies just touching a shell will put them into anafalatic (sp) shock. So yes there is a chance that someone at Five Guys can take peanuts outside drop a shell which blows onto a person who has a peanut allergy BAM!!! Or how about people that are allergic to car fumes, should we outlaw driving?
I’m sorry for your ashma and the problem that smoke plays with it, but I’m also a firm believer in “Where do we stop?” Because it’s a big issue for you, you’re very passionate about it, however once we hand the power to the government to decide what is and isn’t bad for us, we lose our freedom to decide. My problems coincide with the government telling PRIVATE establishments that they must be smoke free, and then making it illegal to smoke in the street. That’s utter BS (btw I don’t smoke, quit 10 years ago).
I hate the smell of smoke, I smell a cigarette and it’s like a dieting Oprah in a Cake Shop. It’s tempting to go back to destroying my lungs one drag at a time. So it might not pose a then and there hazard to me, it does pose a return to habit and kill myself eventually threat to me. However I’m a firm believer in letting Private establishments decide what to do with said establishment.
Yeah we’ll both not budge on our thoughts with Big Government (shudders)….
the state of ohio made it really simple when they banned smoking in all public establishments. if you have to pay or show some sort of membership at the door it’s private, then you can make your own rules… if people can just walk in then it’s public and no smoking allowed.
many bars still have indoor smoking because they charge a dollar or two at the door and then you get a dollar or two off your first drink.
private establishments are completely allowed to do as they choose… but just because it’s a business doesn’t make it private.
Shorty: Well they got it half right. If you own the property, then it’s private. If the government owns the property then it’s public. Pretty simple to me, but once again Government has to try and control things and make something simple gray.
there are plenty of businesses where the building is owned by the company but it is still public. my old job was public… you could just walk right in. my current job is not, we have IDs and fobs that you have to use to get in the doors.
it’s quite simple and it’s not making a grey area. it’s making a distinction that allows for smoking within well defined “areas”.
We started here by banning smoking in public venues where there would/could be minors present (i.e. family restaurants). I was in full support of that as my son has asthma and I like to take him out of the house from time to time
. I was not so much in support of them banning it in bars. I don’t smoke, don’t like to be around it and therefore don’t go to bars. Before the ban in all public places, we had a couple of smoke free bars/lounges that did pretty good business.
The restaurant revenues here actually increased after the smoking ban, even when normalized for other factors. Ditto for when they banned it in bars.
Same here, I believe. I just thought that they should allow smoking in some adults-only venues.
Mabs: Not in DC and MD, everyone just wen the NOVA. The only time that’ll “work” is if there is not other venue to go to. But once again it should NOT be up to the government to decide such issues for a Private Business. I watched a MD authority walk into a “Smoking Lounge” and hand the man a fine. HOW the FVCK can that make sense? And the gubberment’s for the “little guy”, my a$$.
I have no idea what your first sentence said.
Mabs: Not in the District of Columbia or MAryland, all the smokers went to Northern Virginia to go to bars.
Cambridge and Brookline MA banned smoking in their restaurants, bars and nightclubs first –and folks started going to them, rather than the Boston ones. The bar owners were all squawking at first, but when the numbers improved, they stopped complaining pretty quickly.
Guess we have more smokers in the Capital Region.
I’m not sure of that–there were a lot of smokers in the clubs before the ban, which was why I stopped going to them. But then New England does have a lowish smoking and obesity rate, compared to much of the country…except maybe Colorado?
Mabs: VA = Tabaco State, we gots smokers.
Um. Poorest state in the country, you think we don’t?
(FYI, definite correlation between economic level and smoking.) But since we’re a reasonably sized state, unlike those eastern ones, you can’t exactly drive to the next state. 
However, this was done by the city and the other towns within driving distance and casinos within driving distance did not do it and STILL the revenues increased.
Yes, I mean, you send the smokers outside, then you follow them? lol. Even funnier is when they said that you couldn’t smoke within ten feet of a doorway downtown. I think it was an attempt to kill off the smokers as that puts you in the middle of the street.
I could never figure out why the banned smoking on patios….made no sense to me whatsoever.
Here that’s totally up to the businesses. I don’t go out that much and, believe it or not, here it’s a bit brisk to sit outdoors still. (I saw two more robins yesterday.
)
During the summer, patios use misters to make it cool enough for people to sit outdoors. Hee hee. *runs away from Nucky*
I’ve had to leave outside cafes because a smoker lit up next to me. If the tables are close together, I have no choice.
You know, ILPB, there are times when government intervention isn’t bad. Smoking bans are a good example. My wife and I make a habit of going to the city of Arnold to eat where smoking in public places is banned instead of eating in the city in Fenton where it’s allowed. The last time we ate a restaurant in Fenton, we were seated too close to the smoking section and it almost made me sick. I see no reason why when I go out to eat why I should be subjected to that nastiness.
No, no, Rando. Govt intervention is ALWAYS bad. When a business knowingly poisons you, say by using lead glaze in your dishes, the solution is not to ban lead glaze in food dishes but for your heirs to sue the company. Of course, once the Repubs get tort reform passed, they won’t be able to even do that, but why didn’t you take personal responsibility and test all your dishes for lead?
Why do we even have a government? Anarchy is the only true freedom out there. Who cares who gets screwed in the process since liberty is the only thing in the entire world that actually matters.
You’re understating the amount of government control that we (who hate interference) actually want in our lives. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions as opposed to being told what’s best by the government. Of course quality standards are fine. But when the government tells you that it’s illegal to walk around in your own house naked wearing a hard hat, well that’s a bit too much interference.
I’m with ILPB about public vs. private property and smoking rights. If most people don’t want to put up with cigarette smoke, then it’s in the restaurant’s best interests to ban smoking on its own. Otherwise, it will lose business to the point of shutting down.
Well why stop there? Why not let people do whatever the fvck they want in private property no matter who gets hurt? I mean, the government is always bad, so any laws or intervention is bad. Government is bad. People will always do good.
The smoking ban is a very good thing. There is a point where we do need government because people don’t always do the right thing and someone has to keep us all in line.
You’re trying to shove me (and others like me) into an all-or-nothing box, and it doesn’t work that way.
It wasn’t the own house naked part that was the problem, it was the with the windows and doors open where small children could (and did) see that I believe was the issue. I think the roommates were less than thrilled as well.
Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one. Don’t like smoking? Don’t go to an establishment that allows it. Quid pro quo.
Riiiiiiiight…squid pro roe….
Pretty much that ^^^^^ lulz!
Why doesn’t it work that way, froo? Picking and choosing what things you do or don’t think are okay for the government to control is no different than liberals doing the same thing. Conservatives do the exact same thing liberals do, but they choose different ideals to focus on. I know it’s about the quantity of things the government controls, but the whole idea of “it’s okay for the government to control this part of our lives, but if they control this part here, then OMG my liberty is gone” seems hypocritical.
Well, ILPB, perhaps the members of this board are also tired of paying for two health insurance plans… theirs, and yours (since yours is covered by the government, and you do not work for the government).
Semper: Perhaps I’m tired of paying for yours as well. (Though I’m not). Yeah I’m sorry my Wife pays for the Health Care out of her paycheck. She works for the Government, so I’m leaching off my wife….. Dude really….
So, your wife pays $1,200 or more per month out of her paycheck for private health insurance? It’s not government subsidized? Are you sure?
No look below. I said she pays about $200, the gubberment pays about another $200 a month.
and as i stated the government is CERTAINLY paying more than $200 into your plan… i don’t care what paperwork they showed you. they’re paying more.
plus the paperwork may have said $200PMPM not $200PEPM. HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.
I still think the gubberment lied then..
But I go by gubberment numbers. Obama saved 2 million jobs with stimulous plan!! 
I ALREADY can’t go to my own doctor because my company insurance policy (BlueCross/BS) doesn’t cover Dean Care doctors!
Banning smoking in public buildings is preventing you from excercising your freedom to smoke at the expense of someone elses freedom to breathe clean air. You want to smoke, do so outside, or in the privacy of your own home where you can’t kill anyone else.
Law against Trans Fat? I haven’t seen that, but it sounds stupid.
Social Security is good, but could use some fixing. People ARE too stupid to save for retirement. Who pays for them when they are too old to work but don’t have any money left?
As a libertarian I hear your complaints and I agree that civil liberties are extremely important, but I’m willing to pay into the system if it means my fellow Americans are taken care of when they get sick, get old, or are disabled and can’t work.
The anti-trans fat law went into action in New York City, for all restaurants. I think Boston and Cambridge Mass are considering them also?
Is this on-par with making stuff like asbestos illegal?
I mean, if the crap is completely void of nutritional value and causes health problems like obesety or cholesterol problems, is it really putting THAT much strain on restaraunts to use natural sources of fat?!?
If it makes people a little healthier and contributes to even slightly lower health care costs then I’m all for it. What is preventing you from whipping up some trans-fat in your own kitchen if you really want it that bad?
Where does it The Steve? Why can’t a resturaunt decide what fats to use? The concern with Asbestos was it effected people working in said environment and those applying it. (Still think it shouldn’t have been made illegal, just that the companies could get sued butt tons of money if they continued to use it).
How about lead based paint? So you have no problem with kids becoming brain damaged dependents for the rest of their lives…
Oh, that’s right, it should be the business owner’s choice (because everyone knows that once you open a business you can do anything your heart desires, up to and including poisoning your customers, or heck shooting them), and everyone should just file a law suit if they, or their family members are harmed or killed… Really?
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t Tort reform a big hot button ‘fix’ for the cost of health care…
How exactly will that be brought under control when the only recourse for people who have been harmed by greedy corporations is to sue (after permanent damage has already been done, of course?)
Do you really think the cost of caring for millions, upon millions of Americans with Mesothelioma (from Asbestos), or permanent brain damage from lead paint, mercury poisoning, etc. will be cheaper than simply banning extremely dangerous substances from general use?
Really?
Yes I do Semper. I believe it isn’t up to the Government to mandate such things. WHY? I say, is b/c the Government will get greedy and mandate more and more. If your name is accurate you defend said Constitution, not the Government. Show me where in the constitution it says for the Government to mandate what kind of Fat I should eat? What kind of paint I should use?
The government has never, ever, said you can’t eat trans fats, smoke cigarettes, use lead paint, or smear dog feces on yourself for that matter…
The government does, however, have a duty to protect people from having those things done to them, without their consent.
If you want to make Asbestos omelettes, have at it, but if you tried opening up a Waffle House with those on the menu, the government would have every right to make you stop. It is not your ‘right’ to harm other people.
Do you disagree with health department requirements for restaurants, hospitals, tattoo parlors, etc. also?
On a side note, what greedy job does your wife do? Who’s rights is she busy taking away? Not that I believe that, but you claim to.
Semper: Once again I’ll respond to your flippant remarks in a cordial way (last warning). Politicians are the ones I do not trust. I do not want a large controlling government. do you understand? Where do I say I think all federal employees take my rights away? It’s the policy makers (Politicains) I don’t like. Politicians are greedy (ALL not just Dems or Repubs) and if you don’t think they’re out for only temselves you’re sorely mistaken.
I believe in some semblance of control within Health guidelines, HOWEVER I also fear the government trying to run my life and those of Private Businesses. If Old Mother Hubbard wants to cook in Crisco b/c that’s the recipe she knows, and cooking in Canola Oil makes it not come out right, then so be it, let her. Now if she wants to cook with arsenac or dog, that I can see a problem with. My question is this, if the government can mandate how something is cooked, what stops them from mandating what I need to eat? “Well veggies are good for you, and since that’ll lower health care you must eat your carrots. It’s for the good of the people, afterall.” Once again Don’t push your morals on me!!!
Well, since I’ve ‘used up my last warning’, I give up.
You can’t have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Wow you really are such a good listener. Maybe you can enlighten me old wise one? How am I unarmed…. **looks down and sees two arms**
You don’t want us to force our morals on you, but you want to force your belief that the freedom to blow cigarette smoke in everyone’s faces is more important than our health on us. WTF?
Hey freedom isn’t a moral, it’s a right. WTF?
The problem is that your “freedom to smoke” interferes with my right to assemble in public buildings without having to go home smelling of your stale smoke, and to not risk lung disease because I want to see my friends in that building.
Alternatively, if you’ll give me that smoking is a vice, I’ll own up to having a vice too; I drink beer. The waste from your vice gets all over and into my clothes and hair. How would you feel if I drank a few beers, then stood on the table and urinated on you?
Paws: Define public building? If a building is owned by a citizen, it should not be considered a “public” building. I believe in some aspects of building codes, sanitary codes, etc.. however if a business owner owns his building and wants to allow people to smoke in said building/ business I say so be it. I find it absurd that a Smoking Lounge in MD can not allow people to smoke in it. That’s like having a Bean joint not being able to have people eat the beans there b/c of the methane release could cause problems.
Okay, so if we remove all the smoking bans, and smoking is brought back to all the restaurants, where the fvck am I supposed to go out to dinner? I’m allergic to fvcking cigarette smoke. But you’re right, the freedom to allow everyone to blow smoke in my face is far more important than my health. I think we need to take a long look at what are actually rights and freedoms, because I think those words are being thrown around a little too much. Smoking bans are a good thing. A very good thing.
Eat in. It’s more economical.
…and the food and company are typically better!
So…does this mean you don’t want to go out to the hookah bar Friday? Though I do agree with you, not only is it not fair to non-smokers, it’s also wrong to force non smoking employees to have to deal with that. I have a number of friends with asthma and they would never be able to work at a place that allowed smoking, and if smoking is allowed in the work place that may can limit the number of employment opportunities they have.
My brother was taking a class at the Univ of Washington shortly after they banned smoking in classrooms. The professor of the class before theirs still smoked in the classroom and one of the women in the class was practically in tears because it made her sick (also asthma). My brother told the prof to knock it off or he’d turn him in. (He confessed later that ‘she was pretty cute.’ lol)
Yes, but your right to be in a non-smoking environment doesn’t preempt my right to engage in a totally legal act in a public or private place that allows me to engage in said act.
Your rights = my rights.
WHERE it’s legal. And now it’s not legal every single place you go (as it used to be).
To me, this equates with having programming on TV or radio that people find offensive. I hear all the time “Well, if you don’t like it, no one is forcing you to watch/listen.” In the case of a private club/bar/restaurant, if you don’t like or are allergic to cigarette smoke, don’t go to that particular place. If someone is blowing smoke into your face, then they are violating your rights not to breathe in their smoke. But if they’re smoking inside a privately owned establishment that chooses to allow smoking, then they are not violating your rights. No one is making you go in there. I know, I know, it takes away the employment oportunities for those who don’t like/can’t handle/are allergic to cigarette smoke. I don’t have an answer for that. But I will never think it’s ok to ban smoking inside a privately owned establishment.
They can’t PROVE that it does that. They can’t even prove that they have an eternal soul to sicken.
Correlation ≠ cause.
I have SEEN someone have an asthma attack from second hand smoke. That is not correlation.
…and I have SEEN someone with an asthma attack from exercise. What whut?
Mormons and WBC are prevented by belief, where as asthmatics are prevented by a physical ailment that is beyond their control.
How do you know that? You don’t. You just ASSUME their inability to patronize and/or be employed by such an establishment is a “belief” and NOT beyond they control.
What does someone choosing to exercise have to do with someone being exposed to someone else’s choice to smoke and almost dying?
Yes, physical exertion is another cause of asthma attacks, as is smoke inhalation, and pet dander. What is your point?
If I’m allergic to peanuts, I don’t go to work at Jiffy. Duh.
You may be too young to remember this, but that would have meant, before smoking bans, that you could not go work ANYWHERE if you could not be in a work place that allowed smoking. So should those people just go on govt assistance?
DU? Don’t work in a gym as a personal trainer. Don’t work in a pet store as a habitat maintenance engineer. And don’t work somewhere where the owner allows smoking. Avoid the triggers. Jeez. What part of that is so complicated for you people to understand?
Nobody said smoking should be allowed in publicly owned buildings anywhere on this forum that I can see. Light up your strawman somewhere else, mabs. I don’t inhale.
You really aren’t getting it. When smoking was still allowed in CA almost every (if not every, and even places like chuck e cheese allowed it) smoking was allowed it bars and restaurants. If we went back to that people with asthma or allergies would be effectively prevented from working in the food service industry. That will greatly limit their employment oportunities, especially if they are just starting out/in college. In an economy like this one that can effectively leave them unemployed because they can’t find a job where the won’t suffer from asthma attacks. Would you like to pay them to go on medical disability instead? Or do you think you could, just maybe, wait the hour or so until you’re done with your meal to have that cigarette?
I don’t believe I said anything about public buildings. Smoking was allowed in all venues — grocery stores, department stores, etc. So you think it’s okay if people who can’t handle smoke are restricted to ONLY publicly owned buildings. Makes it rather hard to live.
So, does that mean people with asthma should be content to only get jobs in publicly owned buildings? Basically a government job? It can be almost as hard to get a job in government as it can to get fired from a job in government. You’re limiting their employment options even more now.
lol. I don’t smoke. And you don’t get it. Either you’re liberal, or you’re not. Hands of my body, and the penumbra of my body. Liimiting their employment options. What a joke! DUH!
I’m limiting their employment options like I limit my own. They don’t work with people who smoke. I don’t work with people who are idiots. Both are detrimental to ones health. Simple as that.
DU, I guess it’s given up pretending to discuss this because this made no sense. Apparently if you hold ANY ONE view that ISO thinks is liberal, then you must hold ALL views it thinks are liberal.
BTW, forgot how young you are.
People used to be able to smoke EVERYWHERE. I remember thinking how gross it was that someone put their cigarette out on the floor of the supermarket.
You must either work in a very small place or be self-employed then. I’ve never encountered an idiot-free workplace that had more than a couple of employees.
If you don’t work with idiots I have to assume you are self employed or unemployed.
In states where smoking is banned in businesses, like California, they don’t have to limit their employment options. The smokers go outside on their ten minute break to smoke. It’s not hard and it’s courteous to their coworkers who don’t want/can’t be around cigarette smoke.
Hey! I’m not that young! Just because the teen craft at the library today involved cutting up old comic books and some of those comics were older than me doesn’t mean I’m…oh. Well, I still remember when you could get cigarettes in vending machines!
The supermarket though? Really? Ewww.
Oh, and Obvious, even my friends who smoke will tell you that it’s bad for you, that second hand smoke is bad for you and the smoking bans are a good thing.
Hey, DU, I have one that might be older than you, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1?
Smoking is so different from other activities because it affects people besides the smoker. I still don’t get banning drinking alcohol in parks. Drunk and disorderly in public is already a crime, but someone having a beer at the beach hardly hurts anyone. I think some places did it just because of the trash left behind — but then they should have banned smoking at the parks, too. LOL.
TNMT#1?!? *drools, but carefully so as not to get any drool on The Precious.* I heard a statistic (from a friend, so I don’t know if it’s true or not and definitely don’t have a cite) that cigarette butts are the number one most littered item. As far as a booze ban, there has actually been trouble with drunk and disorderly mobs at some of the beaches here during major beach holidays that have led to the ban. Which I think is unfortunate because drinking and a bonfire is fun, but it is actually causing serious problems.
Oh Mabs! Are you on facebook? You should join us if you are! Join us join us join us!
Yeah, one of my nerdy friends was friends with one of the guys who started the Turtles. I had a lot of nerdy friends in college; still do, but a different set, lol.
Facebook? That’s of them things them young folk do, right?
Don’t be daft. Either you’re liberal, or you’re not. Either you believe the adage “keep your laws off my body” or you don’t. Either you believe that there’s a penumbra that protects your right to do as you please to your own body in all iterations of said body, or you don’t agree with Roe V. Wade and you definitely don’t believe in euthanasia. Yet you believe someone has no right to pollute ones own body as one pleases in places that allow one legally to do so. Soooo…. praytell? The good of society, or the rights of the individual? Seems VERY hypocritical, to me.
You called me “it.” Awwww… feel better now?
Old folks do it too! And middle aged folks. You know you want to. All the cool kids do it….
Sorry, but that’s horsesh*t. No other way to put it. MOst people who live in a free society believe that the govt should control some things and not others. People just differ on what things they think the govt should control.
I never said someone couldn’t ‘pollute one’s own body where it’s legal,’ just that communities can decide what places it’s legal to do so.
BTW, believing in the right to do whatever one wants with one’s body is a libertarian viewpoint. That’s why libertarians promote legalization of all drugs, among other things.
And there is no such thing as a single ‘liberal’ viewpoint any more than there is a single ‘conservative’ viewpoint or a single Democratic or Republican viewpoint. All groups are comprised of people who differ widely in their views.
What are you, twelve? “It” is the first part of the name you choose for yourself. I also don’t have magic psychic powers to determine your gender.
All societies balance the rights of the individual and the good of society. The basic example is the right of free speech versus the prohibition on yelling fire in a theater. I can think of no right that society does not justifiably place reasonable limits on. The disagreements come over what determines ‘reasonable.’
I thought the argument was whether or not it was right to legalize/illegalize smoking in privately owned businesses, not whether or not it was okay or not to smoke in places where it is already legal/illegal? Also, the defense w
Stupid cat playing with the mouse.
As I was saying, the defense for smoking bans was that it’s not just their own bodies they pollute but the bodies of people around them as shown be the asthmatics and their asthma attacks.
Oh, sure, blame the poor cat.
Poor cat? She spends half the night either sleeping in my lap and on my arm or worshiping the space heater! I’ll blame her for whatever I want! Then I’ll blame her for things that aren’t her fault just because she’s so spoiled!
My husband and son blame the cats for eating all the ice cream. Such talented cats, opening the freezer and all.
Cigarettes are not stupid Rando! You take that back!
*pats his pack of cigarettes*
It’s ok sweetie… the mean man doesn’t know what he’s talking about….
Well, you shouldn’t have taught them how to open doors. Probably shouldn’t have told them there was ice cream in the freezer too. (It’s up to you to decide if the them I’m talking about is the cats or the husband and the son)
The big one came already knowing how to find the ice cream. I think he taught the younger one. It’s a conspiracy.
*chases Maxwell around with his own silver hammer*
I got into it with my brother over this same issue. He agrees with froo & ILPB. I wasn’t NEARLY as nice to him as I was on here. Trust me when I say I held back in my posts on the subject here.
Rando: You need to be nice to your brother, some day he’ll be bigger than you!!!!
I know we all disagree here, but I think the biggest point being missed is that, yes there needs to be some government oversight within this country, however the degree of Government oversight is what we disagree on. The conservative fear is that the government just won’t stop. Everytime a study comes out that says something is dangerous or bad for you, the government tries to pass laws to mandate such behavior (or worse tax such behaviors to control it). And as I’ve said earlier, conservatives hear the addage “Don’t push your morals on me.” from liberals quite alot (I could go back a few religious posts and find quite a bit). However it’s ok for the liberals to push their morals upon people. I’m sorry we live in a society of majority. We bend over backwards too much in the is coutry for the exception vice the rule.
Couple of instances:
1. Smoking ban in bars/casinos/ nightclubs: A minority of people wanted to attend said PRIVATE establishments but didn’t/couldn’t be around smoke. So instead of saying “Well I’m in the minority here maybe I should suck it up and not go to the bar or ‘tolerate’ the smoke.” the reaction is “I’m more important the majority and I should be able to go wherever I please, so change rules and laws to suit me!!!!”
2. Cold Medicine Restrictions/ Monitoring: Well some people use the chemicals in cold medicine to make bad drugs MM’kay, so the majority of people who purchase cold medicine now get to be inconvenienced, monitored, and thrown into a data-base (law abiding citizens by the way), b/c a few bad apples use said chemicals for illegal purposes, MM’kay.
3. MM’kay, people can’t read the contracts they sign for Credit Cards and/or Houses, and are “scammed” by the ebil commipanies, MM’ Kay. So we need to pass legislation to “dumb down” said contracts, and control them, MMM’kay. We need to blame the commipanies, vice the people who leave beyond their means, MM’kay……
4. Trans fats are bad MM”kay… the fatties of the world must eat their Twinkies, Oreos, Hydrox cookies, KFC MMM’kay…. Because some people can’t control what they eat the gubberment will control it for the entire population, MM’kay… Sorry Hydrox cookies, you can’t find a equitable substitute and end up out of business, BUT we SAVED lives… MMM’kay….
I wish I’d been able to get back on this one sooner, but a “public building” in this context is defined as a “building which members of the body public are allowed access to”, and it’s not “just” my definition, but pretty much everyone else’s too.
Ref the post this will appear just below, I actually agree with you in every case except smoking, because in none of the other cases does the person indulging in the “undesirable” activity cause harm to others as a direct result of doing so. Also take note, I’m not totally anti-smoking; despite being a non-smoker, I actually like the smell of good cigar or pipe smoke.
Paws: That’s the thing, conservatives don’t agree with that definition of Public Place. It’s a (not being punny) very liberal definition of Public Place. To me it’s easy to skirt around private domain with said definition. I would think liberals (human rights champions) would want the most “conservative” definition of Public Place. How can the government tell a owner of property that their property is Public (you know the whole “We Reserve the Right to Serve Whomever We Want” couldn’t fly in a “public” setting.
Yeah, I agree, a ‘public’ place is more of a place owned by the government (local/state/federal) that the public is allowed to use, a private business is just that, a private business. Of course, being the government must be allowed to control us all liberal that I am, I still fully support the smoking ban in private business. I do however agree with both ILPB and PAWS about the list of things the government has banned (after the cigarette thing of course). *buys all cough medicine with cash*
ILBP
How about this?
Remember that School House Rock video “I’m Just a Bill”? In that video, a group of people decided there should be a law that school buses should stop at railroad tracks. They called the senator, the senator wrote the bill, and the bill became law.
What if a group of people decided to make a law banning smoking in public places, using trans fats, & what type of paint is used. All these bills became law. Would you still consider this the government interfering in our lives?
In this situation, they only followed the will of the people, no? If an overwhelming majority of civilians felt this way, would you still think your rights are being stripped from you by the govt? Or is this fine because the majority said so? If not, you don’t really believe in Democracy. Because, honestly, Democracy is simply mob rule.
I personally believe this is how the govt should be run. Laws & bills only being written & passed by the consent of the people. I hear your concerns. They’re also my concerns. The govt has been simply passing laws without any concern for the public. But if the public decides on something you are AGAINST, do you still think this is stripping you of your liberty?
I think we actually agree on something then.
The federal government should only intervene in our lives when the civil liberties of the civilians are affected.
Correct?
I could agree with that. And by civilians I mean American Citizens. I know how unworldly of me, but MEH!!!
That’s actually a big issue I struggle with as well.
Does the Constitution extend to foreigners?
Does it extend to enemy combatants?
Are they really enemy combatants?
What criteria do we have to say they are?
If we treat them like they treat us, do we really have any moral compass to stand on?
The questions go on and on, but I think you get my point.
I do get your point. But to me the Constitution extends to American Citizens.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
But I do understand your concerns. However since “The Steve” asked my a hypothetical earlier I feel I can do the same. If your family was being held by terrorists and the FBI had one man in custody who knew where they were, would you still stand by your morals, or say “fry the guys nuts til he talks.” ME I’d be holding the jumper cables.
Traditionally, we do apply Constitutional rights to everyone in the US regardless of citizenship. You think that if a tourist or immigrant is, say, accused of assault while in the US we shouldn’t apply the normal standards to them?
I didn’t necesarily say that. It’s one of those curtousy extension of rights.
I’m saying that the arguemen can be made the Constitution pertains to only American Citizens, however our system of laws pertain to the population within this country (tourists, illegals, workers, Canadians….)
I’m not gonna lie, I’d likely put his feet in ice cold water as well. I would probably feel terrible afterwards though…
Thanks for being honest, now the CIA persons who did said actions, think of the USA as their family, and the people they hold have knowledge about killings or to be killings. So can I fault them for it, no. Is it easy to sit far off from the frontline and condmen them for their actions while ignoring the lives they saved, yes. Is it easier to say, “Well I wouldn’t do that!!” But really who’s to say. I would bet Obama would sign an executive order in a heartbeat if his wife and children were being held by a$$clowns threatening their lives, I could be wrong though.
I just hope that God forbid if something does happen, the “Anti-CIA”/ Anti-”Torture”/ Pro-Civil Rights to Terrorists crowd aren’t the first ones blaming the CIA for lack of intelligence.
I understand. I can’t fault the CIA guys for doing so. The problem I really had is if we broke international laws and the glaring hypocrisy.
We executed some Japanese soilders for waterboarding then we turn around and do it, and say “hey it’s fine! We’re protecting ourselves, but if you guys do it you’re ebil”
And I also think that laws are there for a reason. If America goes around breaking international law, coupled with our “police-the-world” foreign policy, we’re basically Denzel Washington’s character on Training Day loaded with Super Mario mushroom steriods.
We didn’t execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding, the outright drowned people, as well as raped and murdered, starved POWs, basically they did the same $hit the Germans did in Concentration Camps.
And I don’t know if Waterboarding is true torture. To me sleep deprivation isn’t torture, however sleep deprivation coupled with Jonas Bothers, Britney Spears, or Miley Cyrus music is the worse kind of torture.
Torture has really gone downhill since we did away with the rack and the iron maiden.
Pfah, the government couldn’t successfully “plot” a fricking bowel movement and you know it.
it isn’t the government itself we must worry about, it is the progressives.
People who want people to be treated like… People? List if you will what exactly is wrong with “progressives.” In simple terms please, and refrain from making unfounded and unsupportable assumptions.
they want to have a big government, they want to control you as well. then again, one usually follows the other.
are you familiar with the second amendment? that is the right to own firearms, people in the government do not want you to have said firearms for several reasons.
1.) they think we are idiots and cannot be trusted
and 2.) the fear they will be overthrown, hopefully people can do that before someone is shot.
Weren’t you paying attention? forge specifically said to refrain from making unfounded and unsupportable assumptions. You managed to make an entire post of it. Your paranoia is tangible, and it apparently has killed your shift key.
i don’t like you either
and what the hell do you mean unsupportable?
Whatever point you might have had is all covered over in your froth. Back up, wipe off the froth, come back after taking a deep breath, and learn to capitalize at the beginning of a sentence. Otherwise, kindly FO.
No, no, NO! It’s kindly FOAD!
No no no. It’s STFUGTFOESADITOP ™. That’s my internet abbreviation. I demand royalties if you use it.
That totally made my day, dude. Seriously.
::waves:: Hi, I’m a Progressive and I own firearms and I believe in the ENTIRE Constitution, not just whichever parts serve me best. Try again homey. And those things you think “the government” thinks? That’s called “paranoia” and there’s medications you can take for that.
*applauds*
I got me my medication! *jams lead hat on her head* *whispers*The tin foil hats are a conspiracy, if you were them the government can read and control your mind!
Uh oh. Some people think that if you use a BS detector, you are automatically a pompous know it all. It’s funny how people who shun you for making a judgment call are the fastest ones to pass judgment on others. I guess hypocrites don’t have mirrors. God forbid you have a differing opinion on something……
You suck Jac… b/c your opinion is different than mine. I want to see sources for your opinions……
I’m going to need proof that you do, in fact, like peanut butter. If I don’t have proof on my desk by tomorrow morning everything you say automatically becomes a lie and everything JAC says/ has said is the golden truth!
More like a gold/silver/bronze truth. I do make mistakes every now and then!
Well you are from the South..
Which is so much better than being a damn yankee!
Who you calling a Yankee, I’m a Virginian…. you know the civilized South.
You mean communist south? LOL. My wife moved here from Richmond when we got married. Lord have mercy what a bunch of narcissistic county laws on lawns and curbs and bushes. And keep in mind I grew up on military bases, and was in charge of the lawn once I was old enough.
It’ll take years before the truck drivers stop calling out on the CB, “Welcome Comrade” or “Das Vadanya” as they enter/leave Virginia.
Well that’s the problem when you have a large population in Northern VA voting in idiots into office. It’s funny actually, a lot of said voters used to live in MD. MD taxes got too high, so they moved to VA, and started to vote into office the same people who would raise taxes. Everytime I see a MD transplant I thank them for raising my taxes.
Yeah, Charlotte NC has that problem too. Yankees come down here, complain about the taxes and corrupt govt up north, then immediately start voting for people who are corrupt and want to raise taxes.
I’m not sure if Richmond counts as “Virginia”, any more than Atlanta counts as “Georgia”. Maybe so, though, since they’re more conservative than NoVA (northern Virginia) or Charlottesville, but more liberal than the “heartland” of Virginia.
Richmond/ NOVA: VA = Dallas/ Austin: Texas
No, if ILPB fails to produce proof of his peanut butter liking then you are completely 100% exempt from all mistakes. Providing you can prove you are a Carolinian.
That’s easy. I know what a cat head biscuit is.
BUT can you fry yourself a mean catfish?
I don’t know about you, but I always fry dead catfish. I would think it cruel to fry them while they were still alive enough to know what kind of personality they had.
But hey, I do like peanut butter.
Ha ha. Great lol.
*snicker* This one made me smile.
*puts on flame resistant gear* I’m probably gonna need this.
BTW, this is another Grimmiekins masterpiece. Go, Grimmie!
Oh lord, I thought Glenn Beck fans were only mythical creatures, but they really do exist. I has a sad.
Yeah, they are almost as bad as Micheal Moore and Al Gore fans.
Can you really be a “fan” of Al Gore? That just sounds weird. Supporter, sure, but a fan suggests he’s some sort of entertainer.
He IS an entertainer. It’s not like he actually tells truthful information!
Come on, who hasn’t been on 30 rock? And, justacarolinian is right. Didn’t he go on a comedy tour? Yeah, he definitely did. Cracked reported on it, and that’s where I get all my news.
I haven’t, and I’m not sure that Vladimir Putin has!
He was. He was actually poisoning another guest star at the time. You probably don’t remember seeing him though. Even if you do remember seeing him, I would recommend forgetting about it.
Thank god I’ve never had to go through that ordeal…. *shivers*
aaahhh, the closed minded sheep has a sad. It’s ok, just close your eyes. This will be over soon and the Lib LOLs will be back. It doesn’t take long for libs to “retaliate.”
??
Baaaa, mother fvcker.
**shears Rando** You feel a breeze now beotch!!! **runs off with wool to sell to corrupt Wal Mart T-Shirt makers in China using 5 year old midgets with four fingers making 0.1 cent a year, b/c Wal-Mart loves to use the wool of liberal sheep who were shorn without permission, OPPRESS them my Shepards**
*hands Rando a polartek sweater* –sorry, but I don’t want to look at a naked sheep!
Maybe you don’t, but the guys in New Zealand are all over that!
Or Monatana…
Or Scotland & Wales.
Oh the sheepmanity!!!! Won’t anyone think of the sheep?
Having spent a little time around sheep, I can say that the sheep themselves are not capable!
I dunno Eddie… New Zealan… Scotland… Wales… Montana… newfoundland… quite frankly, it seems to me that the sheep are the sluts.
Oh hell, no. Hey, you people stop staring at my ass!!
Just doing quality control to make sure you’re up to par for the wifey.
It’d better be. That’s a big reason she went out with me in the first place! No, I’m not kidding either.
Hee hee. That’s why my husband has a 25-year-old t-shirt that doesn’t even fit him…because that’s what I noticed when I first saw him. (It’s a very cool t-shirt.)
Look, it doesn’t matter if you’re liberal or conservative. Beck’s a whack job even if he’s got a point from time to time. You appear to be mistaking correct with good. I do agree with Beck on occasion, but even when I do agree with him, his approach is so absurd and overblown I really can’t give him any points for quality.
And yes, I know there are broadcasters on the left that are just as bad, and some are definitely worse. It still doesn’t make Beck a ‘good’ broadcaster in my book.
Wow, you just nailed my opinion on Rush Limbaugh. (I’ve never watched Beck)
I’ve flipped past but never stayed that long. Either fortunately or unfortunately, this means that when I hear people complaining about “Beck” I always initially think they’re talking about Beck. Which, although the tv guy is a couple of years older, always makes me think of Michael Bolton in Office Space: “Why should I change? He’s the one who sucks.”
Most people that don’t like Glenn haven’t really heard him. They get their opinion from a blog. He does do a lot of crazy things, but he usually has facts to back up his stories. And, he tells you what they are. That’s what I like about him.
But, you’re right, his approach puts a lot of people off. And, I never cared much for Limbaugh. He is too much of a pompous a….. jerk. He may have good points, but I can only hear him say “Like I told you so” so many times.
As it should be, which is why you’re pretty grounded politically, even though you and I would probably disagree on a lot. I still respect the fact that your opinions are based on what you believe and not on what some dill is telling you to believe.
Thanks, I appreciate that. It can be a little bit of an issue in that I distrust most media outlets nowadays to the point of where it gets very hard to make an informed decision. I’ve heard about taking the left and right as far as keeping informed is concerned and trying to find a common thread, but even that seems dangerous in that since they’re all so self-serving that the truth might not be on either side or in the middle. When did the truth become so subjective? Anyway, when I argue here, I argue by what sounds right or wrong to me, which is why I get my ass kicked when we go to citing facts and stuff. I don’t cite them because I don’t know who to trust and nobody on the other side ever buys it anyway. I don’t want to just post anything that backs me up. I’d rather it actually be a legitimate source, and like I said, I can’t even tell what that is anymore.
I however, Rando…. hate you, you’re stupid, and you eat babies.
I eat lots of aborted chicken embryos. Does that count?
Mmmm, scrambled chicken embryo.
ZOMG…. I eat babies too then! I truly am a dirty librul now!
Even my chickens are liberals! They just abandon the eggs for me to eat!
Oh the huge manatee!
*glare* Are you calling me fat?
Are you a sea faring mammal? I think not!
I dunno, I could be…I do live a 20 minute walk from the beach.
“Worse”? Sorry, but no. Beck is plain batsh!t crazy, as is Limbaugh, and there is no one worse than them on either side. Though if she were a broadcaster, Coulter might win the batsh!t crazy stakes.
Oh, and I do hate, hate, hate Hitchens, no matter which side he’s floated to on any given week.
So you’re down with crazy, as long as it’s your kind of crazy. Doesn’t that make you the “worst person in the world” or something?
Or, to put it another way, find me something of Beck’s that’s worse than this.
One NEVER argues with one’s own evidence… (link)
…then there’s this… (link)
First off, whoever superimposed that over the burning tower needs to be punched in the face repeatedly.
Okay, I remember that dust-up now. But as far as “shock punditry” goes, I would say that Beck saying “I hate 9/11 families” for ratings is about the same as Olbermann saying “Scott Brown is a homophobic racist twinkie” for ratings.
Didn’t Scott Brown win though?
And Keef’s ratings are still in the toilet. I’ll bet that makes him very happy.
I might be missing something here — full disclosure: I could only listen to about three minutes of that guy — but the audiobook excerpt didn’t sound bad.
For the record, I’m not arguing for Beck’s credibility or his tactics; I’m just saying that I think people like him and people like Olbermann are two sides of the same coin, and that Rattus seems somewhat blind to that fact.
Well, as a dirty librul who wouldn’t bat an eye if Glenn Beck was sucked into a black hole, I have to agree with you on Olbermann. He’s just as self-righteous and over the top as the conservative pundits. They’re almost all junk on the left and the right. There’s no way around that. I like Olbermann more obviously because I share many of his views. He’s like a guilty pleasure, although the clip you linked to was the first I’ve seen him in months. He helps feed the ol’ liberal angst. But I don’t take him seriously. And frankly, after the election, he started getting kind of dull.
All of these clowns are entertainers, first and foremost. It makes me laugh when people start taking them way too seriously and get on “Team Glenn” or “Team Keith”.
I agree completely.
*holds up ‘Team Colbert’ sign* Oh, we aren’t getting on teams? But he can kick Conan’s ass!
Apparently kicking Conan’s ass isn’t really that hard.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that “down with crazy if it’s my kind of crazy” idea from. Did I not indicate that I hate Hitchens (though I won’t go so far as to say that he’s crazy) no matter what side of the fence he’s floated to on any given week, even when he’s bullying for the left (which is where he was ensconced when I first learned to know and despise him)?
Is it possible that you are, yourself, batsh!t crazy, what with the reading of things that just aren’t there?
I think what he’s saying is that from your statement, anyone that doesn’t think exactly like you is crazy. Actually, anyone that may even lean to the right at times falls into that category. It’s more of reading into what you say because everyone you listed is from the right (except Hitchens), than you saying it directly. And, the Hitchens thing is like saying “I’m not racist, I have a black friend.”
Personally, I think Al Gore and Joe Biden are crazier than anyone on the right, but that’s because I lean right.
Biden is crazy, but that’s why we love him so.
Biden, a gunshot away from the presidency
*disclaimer* I don’t advocate shooting the current or any president – I equate Biden with Palin in terms of tolerability and intelligence and could have said heart attack because of the ethnic tendency towards higher heart attack rates and the smoker factor, but didn’t want to be an ebil racist!!!11!
That’s why most people just say “a heartbeat away from the Presidency” and leave it at that.
I prefer “one catastrophic giant icicle mishap away from the Presidency,” but I’m a little weird.
I’m amused that teh debil is worried about appearing to be an ebil racist.
Racism: So fscked up even the debil wants no part of it.
I just find it interesting that your list contains exclusively right-leaning pundits. (And I had the exact same “I have a black friend” thought as backwards re Token, erm, I mean Hitchens.)
And I think the fact that your argument is essentially “if you don’t agree with me, you must be one of THEM!” tells me all I need to know.
I actually don’t think that all conservatives are crazy (though I have some reservations about the socially conservative) – I just happen to think that the four people I listed, including one who has crossed sides any number of times, are at the top of the batsh!t crazy list. But as it happens, people on the left tend to be more confident in their opinions, and actually more confident in general which is why they don’t have that lunatic, finger-pointing fear thing going on (again, not all conservatives – mostly the socially conservative), and don’t require having their opinions validated on a regular basis by fear-mongering banshees, so there is a smaller population of these sorts available for sneering at in the media.
After that little rant — especially the bizarre generalizations — I’m inclined to think you might be on the batsh!t end of the spectrum.
Clearly you have a *lot* of anger to work out.
Not a rant, and there are no party names listed – there are social conservatives on both side of the floor. I have no problem with fiscal conservatism, but “social conservative” often seems to be a code term for “bigot”. And while I do understand the irony in that I am dismissing an entire group of people, I don’t like bigots. I don’t like racists, I don’t like homophobes, I don’t like misogynists, I don’t like misandrysts, and I don’t like xenophobes.
In short, I don’t like those who dismiss entire groups based on matters in which they have no choice. I am entirely comfortable, though, in my dismissal of entire groups who have all the choice in the world regarding their behaviour and beliefs. Henceforth my anti-bigot stance.
It’s not your dismissal of bigots, etc. I have a problem with, and it’s not even that you’re dismissing social conservatives because they’re bigots — you’re dismissing social conservatives first, and then backing it up by assuming they must be bigoted or xenophobic or whatever.
If you had listened with an open mind and come to that conclusion, then that’s fine, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening here.
Rattus, can I borrow this explanation for personal use? It’s so clear and concise!
Rattus: I find your Irony entertaining. At least you see your hypocrisy.
I don’t think hypocrisy is a factor here ILPB, he did clearly state all the groups he dislikes are obviously opposed to things that other people have no choice over (race, place of origin, sexual orientation).
I think Rattus was very clear: “social conservative” often seems to be a code term for “bigot”. That’s not saying that all people who call themselves social conservatives ARE bigots, but that it is a term often used by someone who is being bigoted but wants to pretend he is not. Much like the way people sometimes use ‘those people’ to refer to a group they dislike rather than saying, for example, Mexicans or blacks. E.g., “Well, we all know those people are just lazy.”
Wow, mabs, how surprised am I to find you jumping to tar and feather a group you disagree with? Shocker!
Rattus, while disingenuous, was at least more honest than you. I don’t know if you actually believe that “those people” are bigots, or if, like Rattus, it’s just a convenient way to disenfranchise your opposition. Either way, it doesn’t really matter, because you don’t have the guts to come out and say it. Instead, you have to do this back-handed, passive-voiced, totally transparent little dance to maintain the illusion that you’re open-minded.
Intolerant cowards like you disgust me.
Well, the normal Dhoti has returned. I didn’t say any of those things. I was quoting Rattus, just trying to say that I can understand what she meant. I didn’t say that I agree with her because I don’t know that I do. I was actually trying to think of someone who used that term and couldn’t. But that’s okay; you continue with your assumptions about what people didn’t say but obviously mean.
Of *course* you didn’t mean what you said, mabs. How silly of me.
How about this, hon: if you don’t want to be called a bigot, don’t act like one in public. Even better, just keep your trap shut — you’re dangerously close to infringing on my sacred right to not be bothered by you.
Well, hon, why don’t you try reading what people actually post?
Dhoti and MAbs: Quit your bickering… it’s Max’s and my turn to bicker!!!
Heel the sexual tension could be cut with knife guys…. y’all should just bone and get that over with..
Um, no.
A room. Various water-soluable lubricants. Twister. Get those items, and end world acrimony!
I agree with everything you said ILPB, but, and this is like a J-Lo but here, Rattus did add a very important qualifier “often”. That changes the ballgame, you could go further to add that “seems” adds a new level of vagueness, but for right now, I’m sticking with “often” because it’s what really sets the rest of the sentence apart.
I do however agree that broad brush strokes are bad, pop tarts are good, and emotions are stupid…. and should be hated….
So now to spread the love reach-arounds for all!!
But Al Franken was in a diaper……. and Micahel Moore eats all the uninsured sick children.
And Bill Maher is a slut.
I used to think Bill Maher was awesome. But he lost me somewhere along the line. Religilous was the final nail in the coffin for me.
As for Al Franken, he was an entertainer who decided to become a politician. How terrible. I’m glad no actor has ever become president. I’m sure that guy would be a complete joke, and would never be the ultimate hero of the Republican party.
I’m sorry, but I still like Michael Moore. I have Fahrenheit 9/11 on DVD. But again, it’s because his films (I hesitate to call them documentaries because I know they are heavily skewed towards his agenda) play right into my beliefs. I’m not gonna base my political views on anything Moore says, but it does make for interesting viewing. I also haven’t seen anything he’s done since Fahrenheit 9/11, so I can’t really comment on any of that.
Mike Molloy is definitely in that category in my book. Olberman certainly crosses the line as well.
I even like Michael Moore for entertainment value, but I’d definitely put him way out on the spectrum. My favorite from him was in Fahrenheit 9/11 when he gave gun ownership stats and gun-related homicide stats for the US vs a bunch of other countries. They were true stats, sure, but it’s disingenuous to compare total counts for two countries with completely different populations sizes. That said, if you do a percentage it’s still not pretty, but it just doesn’t ahve the ring to it that his absolute numbers did.
Wasn’t that Bowling for Columbine that was all about guns and stuff?
He should fire his wardrobe person. That pink shirt is ugly as hell.
It does clash with that tie rather badly.
Dude do you not see the pink swastikas on the tie. IT totally matches.
I just noticed that too! He most def needs to fire them! Who are his wadrobe guys???
A DARK BLUE tie with a HOT PINK shirt?!?!
Sad to say, but mentally ill people do sometimes have wardrobe issues…
And I agree that while Glenn Beck may stumble across some valid points now and again, it appears to be mostly by accident due to his bipolar ramblings and delusions.
I too, find it frightening that such an unbalanced person has so much sway with portions of our population.
People who shout, curse and cry their opinions, like Beck, Reverend Wright, and others, will always lose validity, no matter how good their facts may be, because of the amount of personal interpretation and bias they inject.
Nesting fail… sorry!
Guys don’t wear pink – it’s called coral or salmon. But certainly not pink!
my dad wears pink and it looks really good on him.
although he’d never wear that specific SHADE of pink. that’s just kinda atrocious.
Don’t you remember the pink power shirts of the 1980′s? My one uncle rocked one for a while.
Mine was coral, thank you very much!!
I thought it was against the guy rules to identify any colors other than red, blue, green, brown, gray, black, white, and maybe purple? I’m scared Eddie!
Er…yeah, VG is right Eddie. I think you mean the shirt was light red.
Hey, maybe that’s why the car salesman told me his purple SUV was blue? Guys can’t identify purple? (‘Course it was ‘only purple in the sun.’ In NM.
)
With nesting popped collars. LOL!
Meh. You probably eat quiche when no one’s looking.
And tells his wifey he LURVS her…
Yeah, I do.. Happy wife, happy life!
If momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy!
Lol Eddie, you remind me of Red Vs. Blue
“My armor’s not pink! It’s light red!”
‘Hey you know they already have a name for that color, you know what it is? Pink!’
Grif: “Your armor is freaking pink!”
Donut: “It’s not pink. It’s like, a lightish red.”
Grif: “Guess what? They already have a color for lightish-red. You know what it’s called? It’s called PINK!”
I lurvs Red Vs. Blue.
After making my comment Rando I now have to say…
“You know what… I f*ckin hate you.”
“Tucker, I always hated you…I always hated you most.”
Huh. If someone said this about a liberal pundit, the insults would never end.
Guess free speech only applies to Democrats.
Apparently you missed the bits where the Beck supporters called us anti-becks names. They won’t even let us play any reindeer games.
(How the hell do I still have Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer stuck in my head)
Argh. Now it’s in MY brain. Make it go away!
*in his best Carl voice*
“Oh no, now it’s too late, it’s stuck in there. And the only way to get it out, is to blow it, with a bullet!!
But I can never remember the combination for the ammo box. *cries*
The combination is hammer! Quick quick bash it open!
I guess I read the LOL wrong. To me, because of the graphic in the background, it looks like his BS detector is going off.
Considering that Grimmiekins wrote this LOL, I’d say your interpretation is probably wrong. There’s a BS detector because Glenn Beck is there. That’s the joke.
Everytime I see Glenn Beck I get serious flashbacks to watching “Leave it to Beaver” as a child… Glenn Beck IS Eddie Haskell… just want to slap the smirk off his face…
Having said that, I think it was ILPB who said it in a thread… it’s his presentation that I can’t stand. He comes across so “Conspiracy Theory” that it’s tough to take him seriously.
I’ve never seen Mr. Beck, but I have seen Jon Stewart’s take on him. How far off is it?
I don’t think Jon succeeds in being nearly as crazy as Beck.
Okay, that’s a little scary. Perhaps I won’t look this guy up on youtube. Thanks for the warning, Mabs.
You’ll want to bathe after having watched him…
Definitely not looking him up, then.
Jon Stewart did a brilliant parody of Beck some months ago. I have not checked to see if anyone else has posted it, but it may give you an idea of what Beck is all about without having to watch Beck- click
Complete fail to even read the portion of the thread I am commenting on
It’s okay. We still love you.
And remember: Don’t let them socialize your nazism! It’s your appendix.
Every time I see Glenn Beck’s face I want to punch him. There’s just something about his face.
Now I’ve got ‘My Fair Lady’ tunes running in my head.
I get so angry at his face,
He shames the entire human race
Like breathing out and breathing in,
His anger seems a very sin…
My anger seems a very sin…
That reminds me (oddly enough) of something I was thinking about this morning! One of our local high schools is putting on a production of “Chicago”. (Yes, the musical about shooting the guy you’re cheating on your husband with. And singing in nightclubs, going to jail, and if I remember correctly faking a pregnancy for sympathy!) Does anyone else think this seems like an odd choice for a school play?
Hmm. Any odder than Othello? (He kills his wife because he thinks she’s cheating on him.) Romeo & Juliet/West Side Story?
Actually, it sounds like a GOOD play for high school!
Well, it should certainly hold their attention!
I was just surprised that the school administration would approve it.
It is a weird selection. It’s a racy play. Fosse’s choreography is diiiirty….wait, maybe not compared to some of the 21st century’s music videos. Look at Grease. The movie made the play safe for high school productions. I don’t know but I would question it too.
Come to think of it, that seems like it would raise a few eyebrows, too!
It’s no worse than the version of Cabaret I saw at a high school once. Scary.
Bah, you’re just mad because Beck was right about Van Jones.
As I posted above:
The rant on the art of Rockefeller Center was not only factually wrong, but pretty unhinged.
His comments on Obama’s ‘czar’ count also fail even a basic fact check. It came down to how he dicided to define the term “czar” and selectively included positions for Obama that had not been included for prior administrations. It also included 8 positions that were congressionally approved.
And that’s just two. There are others. My own beliefs on Beck aside, it’s hard to be a Pundit without occasionally crossing the BS line. How about I don’t pretend the guys on the left aren’t full of it if you stop pretending Beck’s not full of it? Sound like a deal?
Oh, and by the way, the red phone never rings because no one from the other side watches his show. It’s a pretty bad example of sampling bias. The lack of people calling out Joe McCarthy didn’t make his envelope any more full of names of communists either.
The lack of people calling out Joe McCarthy was from fear of them being next, not support for him!
My point still stands. The lack of liberal phone calls to a conservative show really doesn’t prove that his points are irrefutable. It’s a gimmick, just like the commie list.
Paws: The whole McCarthy era is overplayed and extremely over estimated. If you look inot the truth behind his “inquiries” there were very few people jailed, and those that were, were found to be guilty. It’s a liberal myth to scare their children to sleep.
*gasp* No! Really? SHOCKING
The liberals aren’t annoyed by the actual investigations so much as they are by the hysteria that was whipped up over it. And regardless of what he actually did, when he got any kind of press time, it may as well have been Salem in the 1600′s. It’s just like my point on Beck (or most pundit broadcasters, for that matter) earlier. It’s not so much his actions or whether or not he had a point, after all we were actually being infiltrated by commies. It’s the dishonesty in his methods that bothered me, and for that I think he deserves to have his name be synonymous with witch-hunt.
I felt the same way when we were being told to put seran wrap over our windows in the event of a terrorist gas attack or to watch out for exploding cows. Yeah, islamic terrorism is a problem. And yeah, a lot of the things being said post-9/11 were very valid and deserved the attention and action they got. But some people just gotta take it that one step further into lunatic territory.
And how many had a career ruined simply because they were investigated?
What? Are you saying that being blackballed or being fired because someone said you were a Communist is bad for your career?
BTW, Paws, there is an interesting part in “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” where the author talks about the then Montana’s governor’s attempts ‘to rid the school system of Communists.’ As if Montana was a hotbed of Communists….
I know; I’m old enough to be of an age where reading Z&tAoMM (and Jupiter’s Travels if you were British) was almost mandatory.
I just remember because my dad knew a Montana prof who had to leave because of such allegations. (He wasn’t a Communist, BTW.) They require Z&tAoMM in Britain? Cool. I didn’t have to read it (went to a really lousy HS).
Who wrote Jupiter’s Travels? I couldn’t find it on our library website.
Try Amazon, and the author was Ted Simon.
Can you find me one example of someone who was fired or “black” balled and had never recovered?
Probably not, but I’m guessing there were LOTS of people BLUE-balled who probably never recovered… starting with J. Closet Homo
There were several who were out of work for many years. You want a list of those? Since they didn’t recover that income (and at least one died during that time period), I’d argue that they never “recovered”.
{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist#The_Hollywood_Ten}
So b/c they refused to answer the question (could have “pled the 5th”) and found in contempt they were black listed. Full story Nebs, full story please. The biggest piece of information that was missing from everyone’s posts and MOST hitory books is that these people were actually Communists. That’s kind of like the current congress pulling Athletes in fron of panels and asking about Steroids. However steroid bulked athletes aren’t associated with parties that were having revolutions all over the world.
Being a communist in that time period was not necessarily an unAmerican activity. There were a large number of what I would call intellectual communists…really more socialists.
And no, not communist in the sense of the USSR, which was a totalitarian regime, a completely different thing. You can be a communist and an American patriot at the same time. Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger would be two who are of the pro-American communist variety of human. (not to mention great songwriters).
There were communists in the country at that time who WERE involved in trying to overthrow the American government. I am not in denial that a threat existed. But most of the folks being chased by McCarthy were not of that ilk.
And by the way, my mother was a teen and young adult during the McCarthy era. She knows of folks who admitted to being communists who were arbitrarily fired from their jobs.
We tend to forget the complete lack of job protection in the past. My grandmother was arbitrarily fired from HER job just because she didn’t hide the fact that she was married! We can’t have a married female bank worker, can we?!?!
Is it possible that your grandmother lost her job during the Great Depression? My grandparents had to conceal their marriage because there were laws (or maybe just rules) on the books preventing both spouses from working while so many others were out of work.
My grandmother lost her job in 1922, so the Great Depression was not a factor. Her colleagues had advised her not to wear her engagement ring, but she was proud at her relatively late age (28) to finally be engaged. And they demoted and then fired her. Thought she would have babies and quit anyway (she didn’t have kids until 10 years later).
That’s why using “Ms.” started. Because if a prospective employer found out a female applicant was married, they would ask exactly that: why should they hire her when she was just going to get pregnant and quit anyway. Interestingly, last year I read an article that said the opposite is now true — employers sometimes prefer married women because husbands are more likely to have jobs with health benefits so the prospective employer wouldn’t have to pay them.
I had NO idea that’s where Ms. originated! Interesting!
Well, they made it illegal to ask marital status, but then employers put ‘salutation’ on the applications and that pretty much gave it away for women. Later, when it was acceptable for women to be married AND work, I knew unmarried women who wore “screw off” rings (ie ring that could pass as engagement/wedding ring) so they wouldn’t get hit on at business functions. Sadly enough, that didn’t always work.
Forbidden fruit is always the tastiest. Just ask Eve
I’d not heard the term ‘screw off’ ring, but I do know of a gal who worked for a year in Egypt, and the cubic zirconium is the only way to not be hassled as a woman while there. Or a guy on your arm.
A friend of mine took her kids to Egypt for spring vacation, she found out her twelve year old daughter is worth 100 camels to certain persistent buyers. She had to pretend the groups tour guide has her husband to get people to stop making offers.
Only 100? Was she ugly?
Actually, most of them were not Communists, and even those that were belonged to the Communist USA party, and were not agents of the Soviet Union (at least not directly). Our country was founded on the right to assemble (it’s in the first amendment of the Bill of Rights), so I don’t care what party you belong to, even if it’s the Communist party. What’s ironic is that belonging to the Nazi party wouldn’t have gotten you blackballed by McCarthy’s team. (Granted, it’s not something you’d probably want to publicize.) And, maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but are you saying they got what they deserve because they used the Constitutional protection (5th) that was their due?
So, to recap: (1) Why should it matter that some of them were Communists, and (2) Most of them were not, in fact, Communists (although they might have associated with Communists).
Finally, it seems I answered your question about people being blackballed, but now you’re saying they deserved it, whereas before you were saying it didn’t really happen or there were no real consequences (the “can you find me one example” bit).
If only fear was available as a stock option…………Beck would be richer than Cheney!
Maybe they both own stock in gun and security system companies?
Can I just attack you instead then? ‘Cos that would be fun.
You’re just mad that he has better ratings than you do.
Best. Reply. THIS MONTH!
bitter troll is sorry he vanished for abit, bitter troll had..more crap in his bitter bitter life. had to move to michigan n
but alive and well and loves all the PK monsters freaks and friends
You moved to Michigan in January? I’m so sorry.
I hope near Ann Arbor?
Welcome back!
Oooh! If you’re near Ann Arbor, do me a favor and smack Ron Marshal upside the head and call him a ‘tard for me.
*smacks Rando upside the head** Tard for DU… OH $hit, sorry Rando I saw the R, n, and o and just assumed… damn it man I’m sorry… **hands Rando a Anchor Steam Ale bottle from the ice chest** use this if I caused a bump.
Welcome back BT! Hope you found a nice cosy bridge to live under!
Actually, I’m hoping that moving to Michigan involves living inside somewhere?
I was just thinking that we hadn’t heard from you in a while. I’m glad to hear you’re ok, but feel bad that you ended up in Michigan. Hopefully that will work out for your though.
I’m sorry I thought people were moving OUT of Michigan. Hope it wasn’t something too crazy. Glad to see you back, now you can continue to insult and belittle me…….
Welcome back, BT! We’ve missed you. *hugs*
Oh, BT, welcome back. You’ve been missed!
Welcome back, BT! You were sorely missed!!! {{hugs}}
*hugs and cops a feel* Yay! Bitters back! *hurriedly dresses Charro in a corset, tiny skirt, stockings and sick inch heels, and ties her up* I got you a house warming present! No, you don’t need to unwrap it if you don’t want.
Hang in there, bud. I hope everything gets better soon.
Remember BT… you’re in Michigan now… you’re our first line of defense against the Canadians!
So happy to have you back, BT *hugs and gropes*
As rants go I have seen far better. Blah blah blah Glenn Beck is a douche. Show me a political pundit who isn’t – on both sides.
Agreed. I hate ‘em all.
I do like Stewart/Colbert because they don’t even take themselves seriously, which makes them fun to watch.
True that.. the thing is, both Stewart and Colbert are trying to be funny. The rest of them are just laughable without trying to be.
The funny thing is I remember when he was just the morning show host on the Top 40 station in Hamden, CT. WTF HAPPENED!!!!!
uh…
…. POLITICS!!
How come the only person you can trust about the news is Jon Stewart
I’m glad it isn’t just me.
I call his style ‘rant radio’ (in his case, rant TV). If someone can’t discuss the news without screaming, I don’t listen, whether I agree with their views or not.
I guess screaming is in the ear of the beholder, LOL. I’ve only watched Beck a few times, but I used to listen to him on the radio. I never heard screaming, per se, but he was very…..er……intense about some things
I think Beck would come off a lot better, be more credible and maybe even reach more people across the isle if he’d stop with the “I forgot to take my meds today” persona he flips on when he’s in front of the camera. I mean he literally displays something close 6-7 different emotions within a 1 hour period… everyday of the week. That’s not normal behavior.
6-7 extreme emotions an hour. Yeah, when I was in a mental institution a few years ago, there was no one who had mood swings that bad.
Wait, are there 6-7 different emotions?
Probably he’s repeating the same ones.
Judging by my ex-wife, I think there’s actually 8. There could be more, but luckily we divorced before I discovered them.
The same emotion per each separate personality doesn’t count as 8 emotions.
But you don’t know my ex.. she holds a knife so your argument is invalid.
Jesus doesn’t love you.
Glen Beck is nothing more than a “chicken little”.
To compare his BS to Rachael Maddow, or Keith Olbermann is ridiculous.
That kind of moronic statement could only come from a delusional conservadummy who doesn’t have a clue what those shows are about.
Keep lying to yourselves.
Maddow is a touch more on the level than Olbermann, but she’s disappointed me by going the conpiracy theory route since getting her own TV spot. At the very least I can say she does have some serious conversations and is willing to admit she’s wrong. I put Olbermann above Beck on the sanity scale, but only by a hair. I think a fairer comparison would be to Mike Molloy or Ed Schultz. I think there’s a reason Mike Molloy doesn’t have a TV spot. I think most liberals recognize that he makes the Billboard 100 crazy charts.
Again, I say the very best pundit on the left is Thom Hartman. Why they passed him over in favor of Schultz, I don’t know. Even if you think he’s wrong, he’s very level-headed and fair minded about things. He’ll even call out people he agrees with when he thinks they’re crossing the line. I find when I disagree with him, at least it’s over substance.
Jesus doesn’t even like you.
Sorry Rando and Nucky, Jesus loves and likes everyone, we’re not the WBC here, HOWEVER Jebus probably hates the bastard.
You must not know the same Jesus I do. The Jesus I know (Jesus Cedeño, or JC as his friends call him) works down at the local bakery and if you get him on a bad day, he’ll hate on pretty much anyone.
No body fvcks with the Jesus!!!
Jesus!
You said it man….
Sorry, ILPB, but I believe that God/Jesus would tell the likes of Ioannes to STFU because it’s not humans’ right or place to judge their fellow sinners; that’s God’s job.
Hey man, Jesus is just aight wid me…
He’s the personification? Of what? Bullsh!t?
Being a recovering alcoholic/addict doesn’t magically make you an honest person.
Have you seen the intro to 9-12 project?
This is not a guy to respect.
Wait…so what do you guys think Beck is lying about?
I watch his show pretty much daily (my parents record it for me and sometimes I watch it when I bring my daughter over to visit during the day) and haven’t ever seen him lie about anything.
Its pretty hard to lie when you spend much of your show pointing out how things like government run healthcare are unconstitutional…
But if you guys have specific segments where you remember him giving incorrect information I’d love to know so that I can look into it. But just saying “OMG he’s such a liar!!!” just because he’s “conservative” and thats what all the “liberal news media” is calling him is unfair.
And I know I’m going to get some flack for this, but here it goes: the Government has no business in the private sector!!! Health care is private! Yes, it is terrible sad that people can’t afford certain benefits, but looking to the government to fix this isn’t the answer. I don’t think any of this is going to get any better until we realise that we can take care of ourselves. By this I mean, giving aid to those who need it through private charity.
There has been a lot of fear over the years of giving to the hobos on the street. I for one, have witnessed firsthand scams run by these people. But Americans need to realise that there are legitatemately poor people out there, through no fault of their own, who did everything right (went to college, invested, had a awesome job) and the lost it all when the economy went south that need help. Once the wealthy start realising that “normal” people and not just scammers are the ones suffering I think it will be a lot easier to convince them to donate.
But back to my original point, its not the governments business what I do in my personal life and money (minus some obvious exceptions). We need to retain this freedom. There is no such thing as giving up our freedoms for “safety” the moment you start doing that is the moment you forget what our forefathers fought so hard for and what America is all about!
What I would give for someone to call that red phone and use the words “you’re wrong, and here’s why.”
They have nothing on him.
Get off my phone you pinhead!!!!
One would think that the founding fathers would wonder what stifled the intellectual process if we did things exactly as they had done…. over 200 years ago.
We’re in the 21st century now, our forefathers would acknowledge that, and would have moved on. It’s the reason they made the constitution a living document, if the will of the people changed, then the document could be amended. Hence why it’s been amended 27 times.
Beck’s credibility as an influential character on the national stage cannot be denied. Through the good times and bad times, he is guaranteed an audience. Both sides, those who oppose and love him will tune in for an almost Orwellian hour of screaming about what he has to say. His charisma and gift for keeping his finger on the pulse of the American people will keep him in the public eye for many years to come.
How about “no,” you crazy Dutch bastard?!
He’s the MSM version of Alex Jones. Ridiculous theories.
We need more people like Mr. Beck to keep the Progressive radicals in check.
I attended the 9-12 project and Tea Parties and it was truly inspirational to see so many people concerned about the direction of this country.
Just curious, what is it about the direction of the country are you worried about and what do you suppose we do to fix said concern?
Okay, I’m to lazy to keep scrolling back up to reply.
Watch out GB, if it’s a girl, in 18 years you’re going to have to protect her from Maxes advances.
Mabs, go to settings, there’s a real name and a username option right at the top
I found the username thing; it wouldn’t let me do that. I tried making another account. I don’t know if it worked right or not. Too much crap to read to figure out what I should do. *sigh* Told you all that this new-fangled stuff was too taxing.
Hee hee. You beat me at warning GB about that Maxie. Not a prob. Hubby can always lend GB his shotgun.
Well, don’t you have a son? Kids are all kinds of technologically advanced! Have him set it up for you. Isn’t that why people have kids? To help them keep up with technology?
Later you will understand. You have to maintain SOME pretense of knowing what the hell is going on in life. (Thank goodness for urban dictionary…and tutoring students who like to be able to once in a while know something I don’t.)
I dunno what happened. I have all these friend request emails now.
Facebook automatically looks at your contacts for the Email you used and recommends anyone on your contact list who has a facebook account for as a friend, you should have the option to send them a friend request or not to.
Ah. Well, they wouldn’t know who the heck it was, would they? That could be kind of funny….
Also, you have to choose to send them a friend request too, they haven’t just automatically been sent one. You can also send a message when you send a friend request so you can say “Hey! It’s me! Your technologicaly savy mom! Friend me!”
Naw. If I decide to do that, I’ll just do one with my actual name. Honestly, half the names I either didn’t know or they were customers. As if I would want to be chatting with my customers when I’m not getting paid.
So, when I search the name Mabsa there are two names that come up (well, actually there are five, but the other three don’t match). Which one are you?
Ah, it’s mabsba, with two b’s, so probably none of those.
I put Washington for last name.
Ah, found you. I sent you a friend request.
Why does everyone you know have weird names?
Okay, so if someone is my facebook friend, do they know my email address? Because I had to use my real address as stupid facebook won’t give the other one back.
Yes, I can see your E-mail. *carefully notes it down for blackmail purposes later* I’ll walk you through getting that hidden if you want in facebook chat.
Okay. Perhaps manana. It’s late here. Good night. (I can actually say good night and not just vanish mysteriously into the cable eating amoeba this time.)
LOL, Ok, goodnight.
I think she may be a little young for Max DU… in fact I know she will be *scowls menacingly*
See, in the far, far distant future, when the boy comes by for a date with her (I’m assuming she’ll be about 30 before you allow this), you be sitting in the living room cleaning the shotgun. Guaranteed good behavior enforcer.
My father in law did it best… he took me out to the shed after a hunting trip… there’s nothing like a fresh hanging animal carcass to make you pay attention to ‘the discussion’
I did say you have 18 years before you need to worry.
Ah, November 20th? You have something against the Mexican Revolution of 1910?
No… this…
Well, look on the bright side. Nov 21 is National Kick a Ginger Kicker Day.
Up here it can be a week long event… So far nothing but a few bruises and some suspensions at the school my wife teaches at, but there were some pretty horrific incidents in other places near by.
Wow, the kids are really taking this far. That’s actually kind of scary.
Well, remember Nucky and I were talking about the great parts of having teenagers? This sort of crap is the bad part.
But, NO! We are having the happy pre-birthday party for GB’s baby! I predict two weeks early and easy labor for the mommy!
Right, celebration! *passes out another round of drinks and some non-alcoholic beer for Mrs. Greenbeard*
Actually I’m betting the 16th… it’s a nice random number.
As for the easy labour… hard to say, but it’s all ready measuring a few weeks ahead and me and my wife were both 9 pounders… Unfortunately my wife nixed the steel gauntlet in the delivery room, but at least I’ll already be in the hospital (thank the FSM for universal emergency care
)
Mama always said it was the size of the hips, not the size of the mama. She’s 5’1″ (and, no, I can’t do that in metric
) and popped out five of us in six years, no problemos. Also, it’s not the weight, it’s the size of the head.
O.o 5? In 6 years? *crosses legs and takes more birth control*
And two very early term miscarriages. She was a good Catholic girl. Dad realized that he ‘had five kids, was still in grad school, it didn’t show any signs of stopping, and HE wasn’t Catholic.’ So my claim to fame is that I inspired Daddy to get fixed.
Well my Gran always said after #4 it’s like a water slide… for #9 she didn’t even realize she was in labour until she was almost crowning.
We’re both over 5’10″ but I do wear a 7 7/8 hat size… feel free to make of that what you will.
Hat size…..um what is that in..inches? Or average? What is the average hat size?
Heck, I’m sure she’ll be fine, then.
That’s a big hat. I have no idea what the numbers relate to, but they’re the same as we use in the states. I wear a men’s extra large. The boys like to think there’s some correlation between hat size and *other* sizes, but that’s probably wishful thinking on their parts.
I don’t know anything about hat sizes, I don’t like wearing them much so I have no idea what the sizes work out to. All I know is that my hat size is smallish.
@DU: That’s a little over 24 3/4 inches, 63cm… a 2XL or 7 3/4 in Imperial hat sizes (7 7/8 is the American hat size)
So Canadian is 1/8 smaller? Odd, I thought it was the same. Does that carry over to other parts?
Geez. I have to go to bed. The boy still doesn’t like to drive to school. Says he’s too tired in the morning, and one can’t fault a teenager for making intelligent decisions. (It’s such a rarity.
)
2ft? That is a big head! So, your hat size is probably equivalent to the hat size of a friend of mine who choose to blind me by putting his hat on me the other day. Got it. Hmm…come to think of it, his girlfriend does say he is well endowed too….
Well, goodnight all, hopefully I’ll get a chance to pop in soon… I’ll be sure to come back with some more chocolate cigars when the big day comes.
*so-long squeezes*
*Squeezes back* Good luck with everything!
Hmph. They were left off easy, then. My son’s school would have kicked THEIR butts to the door. Permanently. But it’s a lot easier for private schools to do that. (Which is part of why I love ‘em.)
You are catching all kinds of bad from your southern neighbors. You should speak to them about that. *whistles innocently*
I honestly think you HAVE to be from another country (not the USA) to realize the level of bullshit this guy spews. Luckily I AM from another country.
Let me guess… this forum is full of Obama-lovers and lib-tards. Go figure. Just another mass media outlet that slams a side of things that doesn’t agree with the stupid people. I’ll just bet that not one of you has really sat down and listened to GB, nor done any research of your own after the fact. The contrast to what the mass media puts out (or more specifically, does NOT put out) and what GB offers is startling. Get a clue, and enlighten yourselves to the truth. Or, … don’t… and remain socialist liberal mushroom while they keep shoveling that manure you love so much all over you. Good day, village idiots.
You’re cute.
It looks cute now, but wait till you take it home and it piddles on the rug and eats your favorite slippers.
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!
Here, I made you a tin foil hat. Hope it fits!
“How fvcking dare anyone out there make fun of Beck after all he has been through.!
He lost his mind, he went through a paranoid episode. He had two fvckin shows.
His imaginary friend turned out to be a liberal, a communist, and now he’s going through a period of loneliness. All you people care about is….. readers and making fun of him.
HE’S A HUMAN! What you don’t realize is that Beck is making all this money and all you do is write a bunch of lols about him.
He hasn’t gotten an erection in years. His show is called “The Glenn Beck Program” for a reason because all he really cares about is GLENN BECK! GLENN BECK-GLENN BECK, GLENN BECK: GLENN BECK!.
LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are lucky he even rants for you SOCIALISTS!
LEAVE BECK ALONE!…..Please.
Jon Stewart spoofed his 9-12 project and impersonated Beck’s chalk board presentations he does on his tv show.
Speaking of chalk board, when is it time to put away the board that is old and out dated?
Leave Beck Alone Please…. !
Leave Glenn Beck alone!…right now!….I mean it.!
Anyone that has a problem with him you deal with V, because he is not well in the head.
LEAVE HIM ALONE!”
I uh. Wow. How long did that take? I mean, bravo and all, but wow. I’m impressed.
I just googled the transcript and edited it so that Britney was Beck. 2 maybe 3 minutes tops? I should have also linked the video of him crying but couldn’t be bothered to look for it on Youtube.
Insomnia makes people do strange things… might have overdone it just a smidgen.
is this what you do on a monday morning? argue on a website that makes fun of everything?