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Dear Level-headed Muslims,
Sorry. This douchebag does not speak for all of us. We cool. Here’s hoping our wackos and your wackos have fun in Hell together.
Love and Respect,
Level-headed Christians
*fistbumps SSG Jake*
*hugs SSG Jake*
THANK. YOU.!
Ooooo…I like this new guy Jake. *feeds him cookies* Must bribe him to stay around and speak intelligently for when the whacko ‘Christians’ show up.
i take offense to that (and give me some god damn cookies!)
Dear rest of the world. Keep burning the American flag, bibles and the Tanakh, we’ll keep taking it on the chin because we’re better than that.
Bravo!
You said it SSG Jake! If we are lucky, that preacher will throw himself in the fire.
WIN
For the record, Neo-Cons, Christians, Republicans, Tea Partiers, and Conservatives all think this guy is a nut bag who should be stopped. First Amendment or not, he’s inciting violence and that’s wrong.
*fistbumps Cricket*
*dryhumps Rando*
Because he’s AMAZING
how do you guys get your own profile pic? I have mine set up to do it but it never bloody does
Go to gravatar.com. That’s how we all do it. Make sure to set it to rated-G or it won’t work.
Ok so now I have two entirely different and unrelated screennames because apparently mine was already taken…
Upside is, there should now be an evil smiley
THERE CAN BE ONLY 1!!!
LE GASP!
Testing
That works too.
Don’t you guys have a clause about inciting violence in the 1st Amendment though? If it can be proven after the event that this guy is responsible for say attacks on US soldiers, can you lock the nutter up?
It’s good to finally see the moderates all speaking up though. It’s actually a great shame that any airtime is even given to this Jones freak.
Inciting violence only applies if one riles up the masses with a specific instructions… So if *non partisan reference* says, “Y’all should go kill *fluffy bunnies*” then it’s not protected by the first amendment.
But if *non partisan reference* gathers up all followers and burns a bunch of *fluffy bunny holy books*, *non partisan reference* is expressing feelings, and how the *fluffy bunnies* react is up to them.
But it’s a good point.
Totally. I am a fierce supporter of Freedom of Speech, but I was in Iraq when the whole Abu Grahib thing went down. THAT was a fun three weeks, let me tell ya! So, I would like nothing more than to stop this douche, because what he wants to do will put more of my brothers and sisters in harms way. But, it IS protected. So, all I can do is pray for them to see the error of their ways, and pray for my brothers overseas.
There’s already riots in Afghanistan merely at the rumour of the proposed Qur’an burning…
You see I blame the press for that, they didn’t have to give this “guy” so much international press. What were they thinking? He only has a little 50 person church, whatever they do should not even be in our national news.
For once we agree itsy. This voyeurism in the media is developing a nasty habit of making mountains out of molehills. What ever happened to people minding their own d@mn buisness instead of needing to have an opinion about the guy picking his nose on the other side of the country.
Oh, nice to agree with someon once in a while! I just can’t help but wonder what the reasoning is behind this massive coverage this nothing little dope who speaks for at least 50 people is getting. Are they actually trying to cause trouble? *Put’s on tin foil hat*
Because they knew it would stir up sh1t and become a massive controversy. Kind of like how a silly community center in NY became national news. I mean, was that really necessary? No, it wasn’t. And with all the controversy surrounding Muslims lately, the media pounced with claws out giving a complete douche bag of a human being instant celebrity status (or notoriety if you will). The fact that soooooooo many people are calling this guy out for being a complete cheneyhead (across political, religious, and all other lines) gives me a little hope though. Unfortunately this guy is going to cause a lot more trouble than he thinks.
Exactly why the press should have kept their gaping maws shut. Any violence now will be on their heads, IMO.
The violence will be on this douche bag’s head, but the media can share some of the blame.
Or the violence will be on the head’s of those who can’t live in a civilized world and accept freedom of expression.
Everytime Muslims have a wonderful American Flag burning session do we then get a chance to get all up and violent (that’s kind of what you’re saying here).
WE are not them. THEY are not us. Honestly, can’t go on and on about what a great awesome country we are if we don’t set an example instead of whining and going, “but moooooooom the Muslims get to burn stuff, why can’t I?”
Jane: BS. What makes this country great is the freedom to protest pretty much how we want. I’m not saying but moooom the Muslims get to. I’m simply pointing out, why do the left blame this guy for the violence, but not the flag burner? Simple conservative symbol on one side, “poor” oppressed soul on the other. It’s hypocrisy pretty black and white.
Peanut Butter you can’t really equate burning a flag with the desecration of what a Muslim would consider to be the most holy of all texts.
Yeah a flag is pretty important, especially if it is the flag for your country, but it wasn’t given to you by a man in touch with God.
That sounds a lot like what a few others are saying, ILPB. “Well they can burn bibles and flags, so burning the Koran is fine with me.” That’s the exact impression I’m getting here.
No Rando what I’m saying is IF it’s ok for ANYONE to burn the bible or American flag (whihc here in America they hav ethat right) then there is NO difference between burning those items and the Koran. But it’s obvious you’re too worried about the poor oppressed Muslims to realize that their threats of violence have jhighjacked our Constitution. You let them win, those who threaten violence have mnade you too scared to live in a free society. I honestly pity you and those who fear Muslim repricusion from this, rather than stand up for yourself. Once we deny ouselves the freedoms due to threat of violence, is a sad day.
pb honey, 6 misspellings?
Let me spitball something at you, PB: Of course it’s ok for you to do anything you want to do (flag burning, Qu’ran burning, whatever) under the 1st Amendment. You can run naked through the 5th Ward in Houston if the mood takes you.
Here’s what you need to realize: You can taunt terrorists all you want, but if they have your kids hostage, do you think that might dictate your choice of actions when deciding whether or not to taunt said terrorists? We’re not saying that the pastor isn’t within his rights to do whatever his heart tells him to do. But he needs to think of the blood that will be directly on his head if our soliders die as a direct result of insulted Muslims using our boys as examples of their retaliation.
It’s not letting terrorists dictate our actions so much as realizing that our actions have consequences, some of them deadly.
For the last time, because I think you’re willfully ignoring it for your own purposes. NO ONE IS SAYING HE CAN’T BURN THE QURAN. Did you hear me this time? Maybe I should try it again. I REPEAT. NO ONE IS SAYING HE CAN’T BURN THE QURAN. Are we on the same page now? Here is what YOU said:
So, extremists that live in another country with different rules than ours burn flags and you’re pissed that you can’t “get violent” in response. Take your bat and ball and go home already, you big baby.
I didn’t hear anybody blaming the media for the “Not at Ground Zero” Mosque non-controversy. Why point fingers at the media for covering this Pastor, but not pointing fingers when the issue the media is covering is a Mosque?
Because of the threats of violence outside the country, etc.
So the Republican uproar about blocking a Mosque in downtown New York had nothing to do with pissing off Muslims? It’s only two weeks later, that burning the Quran is the result of “threats of violence outside the country”? I see the two going hand in hand in the amount of insulting another religious faith. The burning of the Quran sure does make us look bad though doesn’t it….I wish the media only covered the issues that didn’t make us look so bad. PickyChoosey arguments much?
Republican uproar? Which uproar is that?
Uhh, the protests in the streets screaming at people they think are Muslim. Sarah Palin twittering her moronic “refudiated” statement. John Bainer calling it “troubling” that “the american people don’t support it” while jabbing at Obama for supporting it. THAT REPUBLICAN UPROAR, have you been asleep for the last month?
there’s nothing “republican” about that. I’ve seen quite a few frothy angry dems over that mosque as well.
In my opinion, the goal of many media outlets was to find the most crazy right-wing “religious” nut-job and hold him up to the rest of the country and say “this is what the Christian Right/ Republicans/ Conservatives have turned into.” Similar to what they have done with the “religious” group that protests the military funerals with signs that say “God hates America” etc.
Well, fortunately, everyone in the country, including the entire religious right and Sarah Palin has condemned this guy, so if that was the plan (which I don’t think that’s the case), it failed. Outside of some other really hateful nutjobs here and there who support Jones, everyone across the political and religious spectrum have soundly condemned this man.
Silly media.
Its an election year, candidates and there friends at the media will use anything to give themselves talking points besides the wars, our econonmy, and actual crises
Thanks for your service Staff Sergeant. Hoooah!
What the hell do you have against fluffy bunnies, sir?
And, of course, the Squirrels
What about the badgers? Will not anyone think of the badgers?!
To hell with badgers! One of those fckers bit me once!
We don’t need no stinkin’ badgers!
I don’t know about badgers, but beavers are great; but no stinkin’ beavers please
A moose bit my sister.
I hate raccoons. They kill ducks and eat my grapes. Burn the raccoons. Actually raccoon chili might be good.
Kurt Cobain took my cricket.
+5 shiny internetz if anyone can get that reference.
No no no! Will someone please help Wicket & Ivan with my movie reference?
Well there are a few movies this pertains to:
We have Backdraft
Blazing Saddles
but it originated in The Treasure of Sierra Madre… ahhh I love me some Humphry Bogart!!!
Strike three and you’re out.
Ummm actually it was in all three of those movies….. poor poor Rando……
Air Bud 3?
We don’t need no stinkin’ badgeRs. Not badges. Pay attention.
By any chance were you thinking of The Wall?
YES
I’ll go with the underwatched UHF.
Thank you. FINALLY someone got it.
I have something against fluffy bunnies!
…mostly because that’s what we call faux-Wiccans who are just annoying and/or stupid.
Careful, by that argument Julian Assange is innocent of any official wrong-doing. This would be one of those ‘You can’t support one and crucify the other’ moments that may stir up some discomfort.
No, sir. He is trying to leak Classified Documents. That’s national security. Not sure about civilians, but I know that PFC could face some serious jailtime. And anyway, just because you have the RIGHT to do something, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do, ya know?
I fully agree that the soldier who did the leaking should have the book thrown at him. Assange is a foreign national civilian. Both Assange and this pastor are claiming they have done nothing but exercise their right to free speech and the repercussions are not on their heads. Both have engaged in actions which will potentially jeopardize the lives of American soldiers and/or their allies in the field.
It could be equally claimed that this pastor has the RIGHT to engage in a book burning, that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
Receiving Classified Documents from another country constitutes espionage. If Assange were to step foot in any country with extradition to the US he can easily be arrested for receiving and publishing the documents. Difference of freedom of speech, if you willingly receive stolen/ classified documents and make them public you are liable for espionage. Also Assange is liable for all the Afghani people he outed for assisting Americans.
On another note: When do we as a country decide to disband our 1st Amendment rights dues to threat of violence. Aren’t the people threatening violence just as bad as the man buring the books? Would you hold an American who committed acts of violence due to someone burning an American Flag as accountable? Or is it simply, he should just deal with it in a “civilized” society?
No one’s saying he doesn’t have the right to do it, just that he shouldn’t. You know, THE SAME ARGUMENT that’s been made on here against the Cordoba House? I’m honestly getting tired of people citing the 1st Amendment in cases where a person’s RIGHT to do something is not in question. It’s become another ‘racism’ or ‘un-American’, where people keep saying it until it seems to lose meaning.
Yes, the people threatening violence are just as bad. They’re worse. That’s never been in question. Nobody’s saying that the acts of violence in response to the burning would be justified, just that it’s idiotic to think they wouldn’t happen, or to go through with it with full knowledge of the consequences.
We’d hold a man who commits violence over a flag burning responsible for his actions the same as we’d hold any Muslim living in America responsible for his actions if he committed violence as a result of Jones’ actions. We’d do so because we are a ‘civilized’ society, and we hold people accountable to following our laws (unless they’re celebrities, of course, in which case they serve a day or two and go free, apparently).
Cricket had said he should be stopped regardless of the 1st Amendment, and there were some who agreed. To me that’s a blatant, fvck the 1st Amendment. So anyone who agreed with her, better not have championed 1st Amendment rights in the past or else they will come out smelling like a hypocrite. That’s all I was pointing out.
You know what? If I stop this guy, and prevent a lot of violence from breaking out, then I can accept being a hypocrite. There I said it.
Nobody is saying the extremists are right in their actions against the US, but for crying out loud, is taunting them a really good idea? From a PRACTICAL standpoint and not an idealistic one, is that really a good idea?
First Amendment rights end where the other guy’s nose begin. I’d say this is a pretty definite swing at the other guy’s nose.
Yes, I sand on ideals. I can’t believe I’m going to sound like a liberal here, but the second we sacrafice our ideals for convenience they win, and we lose.
Convenience? You call that convenience? Violence could erupt all through the Middle East, which could make things a hell of a lot rougher for our troops btw, and you call it convenience? This dude is trying to make trouble. Is it really okay?
So really what is happening, is our freedoms are being held hostage by a bunch of ill behaved people.
Held hostage? No. We all still have all the same rights. You still have the right to complain about the sorta-near ground zero community center, don’t you? I still have the right to complain about this douche bag, don’t I? All rights have limits, don’t they? Doing something that will deliberately incite violence is shaky ground for the 1st.
So… you don’t think the mosque at GZ will incite violence?
Bullets lodged in your body are just so darn inconvenient!
(just a wee bit of sarcasm, no flaming intended)
Hey, isn’t restricting where a church can or cannot be built – depending upon what religion said church ascribes to – “sacrificing our ideals”?
Wasn’t that my original argument? I.e., If we let terrorists dictate when we do or don’t honor our Constitution, then haven’t they already won?
itsy–I don’t think it will incite violence. Quite possibly vandalism. Hopefully not violence. And certainly not on the level of the response to the Quran burning.
The muslim fanaticals gain support by trying to make the case that the United States is trying to exterminate the muslim faith. When acts like burning the Quran or protesting putting a muslim community center in NYC it just makes things worse. We are doing exactly what they want. Why the hell are we doing that, are we really that stupid?
Apparently a great many are. They pull the strings and people react.
I don’t think he needed (or needs) to be stopped. I think they (the media) just should not have publicized it.
I mean, really, a ‘church’ with 50 people in BFE Florida is burning books and they’ve heard about it in Afghanistan (a place with a serious dearth of Hi Def TV and Cable service?)
Like the Westboro Baptists, they should simply be ignored.
If there’s no picture, it never happened, right?
Exactly; why in the hell is anyone covering this story in the first place?
Legal precedent on the espionage charge is shaky. Especially given the question of whether Wikileaks is ‘the press’.
“Assange is liable for all the Afghani people he outed for assisting Americans.” = “Jones is liable for any American or allied casualties resulting from his inciting hostility.”
I see no difference do you?
I do. Assange outright told the Taliban who was supporting the American Troops. Jones is simply committing an act on his own property, BIG DIFFERENCE!!!
If Muslims go to violence b/c of Jone’s acts it’s on them, if the Talibn hunts down and kills AMerican confidential sources it’s an Assange for leting the Taliban know who they are.
The only difference I see is Assange at least attempted to minimize the damage his actions could cause.
{http://www.mathaba.net/news/index.shtml?AA_SL_Session=0806c3fe5f454d677765f89e60f4e9c3&nocache=invalidate&sh_itm=4844642a1a39ce5586cea5f34dd23fd0&add_disc=1}
While Jones is hiding behind the 1st Amendment to cover an open act of treason; aiding our enemies by encouraging others to join them.
From what I’ve heard Assange has redacted all names. So, just the events are being released, but not the actual participants.
Not that I agree with releasing information the way he is releasing it, but the struggle between the press shining a light on events, and the efforts of governments, corporations and other powerful people to cover them up has been going on forever.
If not for some tenacious journalists, we would have never known about Watergate, My Lai, or The Iran–Contra scandal.
Burning Qurans/Bibles is just so Third Reich (Yeah, I Godwined! But it’s actually a factual reference)
Meh, I think he actually WANTS some Muslims to go off on some Americans because of his Qur’an burning just so he can say, “See, see, I TOLD you they were all terrorists!!!”*eyerolls so hard can see self think*
I agree. As if we didn’t have any more problems to deal with, here’s this douche rilling up our neighbors into retorting. Idiot.
That is unfortunately quite true. The problem is that the Muslims can’t seem to realise that they are their own worst enemies. As soon as someone does something that they deem against Islam there is a teriffic outpouring of Violence (look at the British teacher jailed in Somalia just for calling the class Teddy Mohammed (which wasn’t any reference to the Prophet, but to one of the kids in the class who just happened to be called Mohammed. This is unlike your average Christian, who might protest in a relatively peaceful way and then just carry on as normal. When was the last time you saw the Women’s Institute Sucide Bombing Division
) What the Muslims need to do is figure out that violence gets you nothing apart from hatred from people. If there is anything they deem to be against their religion they should protest in a peaceful fashion (no flag burning, no burning dummies), make their feelings known and then carry on as usual. Getting violent is just playing into the Pastor’s hands amd giving him all the ammunition he needs.
With the understanding that ‘the Muslims’ that you refer to are folks in the Middle East and southwest Asia. American Muslims figured all of this out quite a long time ago.
and while 99.99% agree with you…
I think its ironic how they protest this (and just about everything else by burning American flags and bibles.
and build mosques in places that it clearly upsets a large number of people and refuse to consider an alternative, thus promoting mutual understanding and tolerance.
No great surprise that someone who strongly believes in the correctness of his religion might come up with such a boneheaded idea.
And the best part is that his vote cancels your(s).
What he plans on doing is illegal because he was unable to acquire a open air bonfire permit from his city council.
So hopefully they decide to arrest him BEFORE he starts burning the books, and not after…
*prays that they do just that*
HOW DARE YOU PERSECUTE HIM BY FORCING HIM TO FOLLOW LOCAL LAWS
Yes, let’s hope for a burn ban and no burning permit and when the cops comes to shut him down. He obstructs justice, swears at the poor cop and gets locked up for a dozen felonies.
If he tries to take a swing at the cops, then his followers (all 30 or so) decide to go on a destructive rampage as well could bode well for the prosecution to lock him up and throw away the key.
Although I’d much prefer it if someone could sneak a honey badger in to his pants the night before
The venomous bile this man is full of would likely kill even the honey badger.
I dunno about that, honey badgers are pretty tough. How about an extra, just in case?
An open air fire without a burn permit is not an arrestable offense in Gainesville, Only a citation and fine.
Bummer. Can the city fathers change that, toot sweet?
Umm I don’t think he should be stopped. I don’t support his actions, I think it’s disgusting but he has the right to do this. If some a-hole can burn the American Flag, pis$ on the American flag, burn the bible (yes it’s been done in protest), make a art work of the virgin mary out of elephant dung, then this man can burn a book as well in protest. Funny how everyone here is fistbumping, excited, etc about denying this man of his 1st Amendment Right, but some were the same people out there bi tching and moaning about 1st Amendment when it comes to the everything else. Funny how that is.
BRAVO!!
He has the right to do what he wants. It’s the STUPIDEST FVCKING IDEA I’ve ever heard. He’s going to incite violence and piss off the wrong people. Not to mention the fact that just because you have the right to do something doesn’t meant that doing something is right.
Stopping him has nothing to do with his rights, and has lots to do with the repercussions of his actions. What he’s doing is potentially dangerous. Will anything result from it? I don’t know. Possibly not. But it’s pretty freaking risky territory.
“Not to mention the fact that just because you have the right to do something doesn’t meant that doing something is right.
Stopping him has nothing to do with his rights, and has lots to do with the repercussions of his actions.” — That’s exactly what I was trying to tell you the other day about building the mosque so close to GZ!!
The difference being that I don’t see building the community center as wrong. This douche is deliberately committing a hateful act towards Muslims. The people in NY are just building a community center that happens to be kinda near GZ. Not even right by it. There’s a HUGE difference.
Dude even CNN is questioning the guy who’s building the community center. Some of his speeches after 9/11 are questionable at best, disturbing at most.
OMG, CNN??!! It MUST be wrong!!!
Only because Anderson Cooper is better than you.
Are you calling CNN wrong? that’s just anti-media of you.
I’m sorry am I pointing out the hypocrisy of the left in this issue, and it’s distrubing you. Please allow me to stop…… wouldn’t want to upset the liberals, can’t pi$$ off the liberals. (Little YAAFM sourcing there) Seriously though, I find that the left will rush to defend the Muslims from all and not hold them accountable, but if a Crhistian does the same thing as a Muslim, it’s “He’s an a$shat!!! May he rot in hell.” Sorry but I hold ALL people to the same standards. If they want to get violent b/c of this, it’s on them, NOT on this dip$hit. Sorry but in a gorwn up world people will do things to out right pi$s you off, you can either get violent or you can just say “God you’re an a-hole.” and be done with it.
You hold all people to the same standard, except liberals who are apparently all hypocrites.
Guess what? Every single god damn human being is a mother fvcking hypocrite. Get over it.
Ummm actually I call out conservatives as hypocrites on a regular basis, do I not? So this “victim” routine doesn’t fly so well.
You call out individual conservatives sometimes, but you generalize liberals. You did it again somewhere else in this thread!
Allow me to simplify this argument. EVERY media institution is wrong. They all have their particular biases of one kind or another. Even the BBC has it’s own biases (however in the BBCs case the biases are usually hidden.)
We arent defending the acts of fanatical muslims, we hate what they are doing as much as we do. But if this man does continue with his burning of the quran the muslim fanaticals will lash out more. If we want to get out of afganistan on good footing then we need to treat the muslim world with as much respect as you would any other religon.
Actually, I’m not a hypocrite because what one guy on CNN says doesn’t change my opinion of the mosque. You presented it like, “hey look, the librul media says it’s wrong” and expected some kind of response. I don’t give a flying fvck. There’s nothing wrong with the mosque. You like to paint everyone who disagrees with you with the same broad brush. You’re the one filled with hate when you say that all liberals do or say or believe the same thing. Prove that I’m a hypocrite then. Quote me. Tell me something I’ve said that contradicts something else I said. Go ahead.
I believe he said that the 9/11 attacks did not come out of nowhere, that American had been dabbling in Middle Eastern politics and upsetting the balance of power there for years… Which is verifiable.
I refer you back to the Iran-Contra Scandal…
President Ronald Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly facilitated the sale of arms to Iran, the subject of an arms embargo. At least some U.S. officials also hoped that the arms sales would secure the release of hostages and allow U.S. intelligence agencies to fund the Nicaraguan contras.
And U.S. support of the Mujahideen against Soviet troops during the Soviet war in Afghanistan – which resulted in the Soviet pull out from Afghanistan and the Taliban’s rise to power.
There are more, but you get the drift. In a way, our meddling actually created Al Queda.
Rando, you don’t see it as wrong, but many many others do see it as wrong.
And they’re wrong.
No you are wrong. Or should everyone have your thoughts.
Here you go, simple difference to separate the two arguments. If General Petraeus says that building a Mosque somewhere is in direct threat to American lives and the military’s objective in Afghanistan…then building the Mosque, although Constitutionally protected, would be WRONG. Get a Republican General on your side of the argument, and then we have ourselves a moral Mexican standoff; until then your side of the argument lacks the brass.
Every above post:
YOUR OPINIONS AND BELIEFS ARE WRONG HERPA DERP
Newsflash: Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. None are right, and none are wrong either.
Lrn2coexist
This was supposed to go to the bottom of the page, what the hell?
It’s a thread. we actually communicate here, not just spit out opinions and run away herpa derp kiddo
What makes them wrong and you right? Just your way of thinking is all. How are you the absolute on what is right?
General Petraeus is what makes them wrong and Rando right.
1. Because I’m Amazing. Just ask Cricket.
2. Perhaps I’m just naive, but both of these issues seem pretty cut & dry to me, and I feel nothing but horror from you, Pulse, and ILPB on both issues.
Once again Rando’s wonder of pick and choose your freedoms. I have a horror for you and you facist attitude. If I think it’s wrong it’s wrong for everyone, if I think it’s right, it’s right for everyone. Who made Rando the authority on all things morality? I didn’t. Oh the horror, the horror.
I’m struggling to see how saying “group 1 have the right to do this, but I think they shouldn’t” and “group 2 have the right to do that, and I think they should be allowed to” is “picking and choosing your freedoms”.
I think the pastor? is an @sshat, and find his actions repulsive, because he is burning books rather than because of which specific books he has chosen to burn.
Actually I agree with you on that. There should be one rule for everyone. If it’s wrong for one person to do something then it is wrong for everyone. It makes things easier and also cuts down on people thinking that a minority group gets to do something just because it’s a minority, which is a contributing factor to racism. (BTW I am also dead set against burning any books. If we start doing that we’ll start going down the same road that the Germans went on in the 30s. Who’s to say that if he burns the Koran today, he might burn the Torah tomorrow and then maybe Aristottle and Plato the day after.)
Well, if I didn’t think I was right, then I’d probably change my mind, wouldn’t I? “Wow, I’m dead wrong, but I’ll go on thinking this anyway.” We all think we’re right, don’t we?
Dude, Chill the f’ck out. He’s using your same argument that you previously were saying about the Manhattan Mosque. He has the right to do it, but it’s the wrong thing to do… Stop trying to demonize someone for using the same argument that you previously used yourself. Talk about people picking and choosing…
You mean like burning the American Flag on Memorial Day?
Yes it does, stopping him HAS EVERYTHING to do with his rights. B/C some people make get violent b/c he burns a book, he should be denied his 1st AMendment right? REALLY? Wasn’t it you championing before about how even if it isn’t the right thing to do, people have the right to do it, and shouldn’t be stopped, regardless of repricussions? Or am I mistaking you for another Rando?
As far as I know Rando is not saying anything about denying this guy the right to burn the Quran, just that the guy doing it is a flaming cheneywad. The only thing I’ve heard is that bonfires may violate some city ordinances. Hell, if I publicly announce that I’m having a bonfire on designated no burn days and call the media to tell them you better believe the cops are showing up at my door too, and the only things I’m burning are marshmallows.
It’s a BAD IDEA. He can do it if he wants. It’s a TERRIBLE IDEA. Can we stop him? Probably not. Do I wish we could? Hell yes.
“Can we stop him? Probably not.” No you can’t. To forcably stop him would be just as bad as to forcably stop the Mosque at ground zero, PERIOD! “Do I wish we could? Hell yes.” Another champion of the 1st Amendment, or are you starting to understand now our argument about the Mosque/ Community Center?
As opposed as I am to the GZ center, it’s not even remotely on the same level as burning a pile of Qu’rans. Unless the Cordoba people intend on burning flags and Bibles in a daily naked romp at 51 Park Place, then it’s not the same thing. A bad idea, perhaps. Asking for vandalization, perhaps. But NOT a deliberate attempt to offend an entire group of people, as the “pastor” has said he intends to do. Would you like a cite showing where he’s said that his intention is to piss off the Muslims?
I’m trying to point out to Rando that just b/c someone has the right to do something, doesn’t mean it’s the rightest thing to do. REgardless of severity, it’s the same point. I know the guy is doing it to pi$s off the Muslims, and they’ll play right into his hands as an in-tolerant group of other people’s freedom’s of speech. It will show their first reaciton is violence rather than an ability to just turn the other cheek or ignore it. He’s trying to prove a point that Muslim;s “aren’t as tolerant and peaceful as they say they are”. And unfrotunately the initial reaction is working. The guy’s a dip$hit, and the best way to handle a dip$hit, is ignore him.
It’s not the same thing, PB. You’re deliberately obfuscating to try to make a clumsy point.
Cricket: A) It is the same thing. Rando talked in absolutes when we didn’t agree witht eh Mosque, so therefore it’s absolute. You either support the 1st Amendment or you don’t. I was simply pointing out the fact that we were arguing that “Just b/c you have the right to do something, doesn’t mean you should.” And he kept harping that no no no we have to support it all or else we’re squishing thier 1st Amendment right, so now I’m calling him on it. If he can’t handle it, so be it, but you do not to come riding in to defend him. Rando’s a big boy, he can stand by his words, or he can eat them…….. I like to see the spin job actually, and I’m a bit disappointed in your lack of support for the 1st.
Oh and my point is not clumsy, you just are too buy waffling on your support for the first to see it. Careful you might trip there. (You really shouldn’t insult people’s points they might get pis$y.)
The GZ center isn’t a First Amendment issue, it’s a zoning issue. It might be unwise building it there, but free speech has nothing to do with it.
Burning a Qu’ran, on the other hand, is clearly a First Amendment issue, and is a clear overstepping of the boundaries of not only good taste, but Christianity as a whole. He’s taking the 1st Amendment and twisting it into a pretzel to accomplish his goal of pissing off the Muslims. Need that cite as to his movitations? A deliberate attempt to insult goes beyond whatever 1st Amendment rights might be involved. He might as well go kick a Ginger and call it ok.
I’ve never questioned his intentions. I know he’s said that. Just like the guy who made the Virgin Mary out of Elephant Dung did it to pis$ off Christians. Just like the WBC who does it to pis$ off Soldiers. Just like flag burners who do it to pis$ off conservatives or troops. Just like the KKK or other hate mongers like Black Panthers, twist the 1st Amendment. It sucks that people do it, however they are allowed to. Do I like what the guy is doing, hell no, do I wish he wouldn’t do it, hell yes, but really I can’t kill my ideals on the 1st b/c some religious freaks will hold the world hostage.
And the GZ was screamed as freedom of religion by many people jumping down my throat when I simply said it was off. So don’t say they didn’t make it about the 1st, b/c they did. And now when the 1st is inconvenient, all of a sudden that support is waivering. That’s the point I was making as well. Once again not clumsy, just inconvenient.
If he burns the quran is it really protected by freedom of speech. Its an action, so could we get him on somthing at all
I hate gingers unless they like me, then they’re ok.
hey ILPB, I hope, for your sake, this guy does burn the Quran…just so you can be right about something. And you’ve never heard me, a “liberal lefty” say that he can’t. I just hope that he does, and then you can have a little party in the name of “Religious Hatred” and you can actually be right for once. Your own “Religious Hatred” of the Mosque was denied by the 1st Ammendment Freedom of Religion and now you claim that this guy’s “Religious Hatred” is protected by Freedom of Speech. AND IT IS, and you get to have a party because instead of the constitution denying you blocking a Mosque, it gets to protect the burning of the Quran!!!! wooo hooo. ILPB gets to win an argument for “Religious Hatred”, and the Constitution actually agrees with him this time. WOO HOOO!!!! burn baby burn!!!! You go ILPB, way to sacrifice your morals and values to win an argument…
Oh Wicket, you can’t stand on your own morals without faltering and your “argument” holds absolutely no water with what you said about the Mosque, so we’ll throw out the “racist” card. Typical liberal bs when you can’t win, throw out insults and hope the guy gets on the defensive.
When it’s supporting a “liberal cause” it’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH and if oyu don’t agree you’re a bigot. But if it’s a “Conservative Doing It” I can’t support the right or FREEDOM, but my GOD you’re a bigot if you do support it.
So basically unless I bow down before my Muslim masters I’m a bigot. Got it thanks for the lesson into your mind there Wicket.
There you are, generalizing liberals again.
Religious hatred has no place in America, conservatives doing it or liberal, Christians or Muslims. If anyone is using a BS argument it’s your attempt to play the victim to my cruel observations and the use of the word religious hatred. You support Quran burning or you don’t…that simple. You support a Mosque anywhere in America or you don’t. We’ve both stated in both instances, that the right to do either is protected by the First Ammendment, so we are now debating whether one or the other is right or wrong. Where do you stand on the issue, sir? I think it’s right to build the Mosque and wrong to burn the Quran. Your turn to go, try and not accuse me of calling you names that I haven’t.
I’m not so sure the GZ thing is as rosey as you say, and just b/c the intentions might be good, doesn’t always mean it’s the right thing.
I don’t deny you you’re want of this guy being smited, and for all I care let it be so.
Maybe it’s not, but it’s hardly a “victory mosque” like the anti-Muslim crowd is suggesting. Just because something Muslim is happening near Ground Zero doesn’t make it terrorism or 9/11 related. It really is unfair that Muslims are apparently supposed to disappear around 9/11 and apparently aren’t allowed to be near 9/11 sites because of the actions of a few extremists who don’t represent all of them.
Well, they can’t do it naked, that’s against the Koran.
No one here has even come close to arguing about denying him the right to expression. What’s being said is that what he has planned is MONUMENTALLY STUPID, and that he shouldn’t go through with it.
If he breaks some other law in attempting to go through with this act, arresting him on that basis is not denying his 1st Amendment rights. He has the right to burn the Koran, just as others have the right to do what you referenced, and in every case it’s wrong even with legal protection.
I think he should be stopped largely because he is going to cause a huge sh!t storm in Afghanistan.
I just feel that when NATO, the Vatican, General Petraeus, the attorney general, and the heads of the Jewish Muslim and Christian societies of America say it’s a horrible idea and you shouldn’t do it, maybe you should consider, y’know, not doing it.
Sarah Palin weighed in against it as well. My jaw dropped.
Really? I thought she’d want to be there as a guest speaker!
Huh.
Might be that having a son serving in the Army has given her some practicality on occasion?
It did take her more than two weeks to put her 2 cents in…coincidentally on the same day that John Boehner put his two cents in as well….also coincidentally on the day before the debacle reached it’s soap opera type conclusion today.
She’s waiting to hear from Cleese or Idle.
agreed. I read that this morning the FBI paid a visit to Pastor Jones to inform him of whatever it is that the FBI knows about this particular event. Then later this afternoon the Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, called Pastor Jones personally. The article doesn’t mention what the FBI or Gates’ conversations included but by 4 o’clock this afternoon the Koran burning party had been called off. When the FBI and the Secretary of Defense are contacting you personally, either you are threatening lives or somebody else is threatening yours….or both.
Ancient fiction fan really take there story books serous.
I’m going to wait a few weeks and then start burning bibles.
Not as serious as I take my job in the grammar police! GETTIM, BOYZ!
Alright Slag!! You’re Nicked!! **puts set of handcuffs on Second Opinion and puts him in the back of a police van, beating him over the head with a rubber truncheon in the process**
Well, we already had a guy put a crucifix in a jar of urine somewhere and no one started any riots anywhere over it. He even won a prize, like to see someone do that with a koran. So, have fun.
Well not riots, but I remember the case, and there were Evangelical Christian Groups that were distinctly pi**ed off about that.
No pun intended?
HEH HEH!!! You know. I never bloody noticed that!! In this case pun was completely unintentional.
I like this approach….we tolerate it so why shouldn’t they? That’s like saying why should a 3 year old get to crap his pants while a 13 year old has to use a toilet. Therefore the 13 year old starts crapping his pants.
Between REV Jones ans Westboro Baptist, people wonder why I will prefer Hell to a Heaven populated by these A**holes and their ilke.
Meh, I wouldn’t worry about it. According to those douchebags, EVERYONE’s going to Hell. I’m going because I listen to Slayer. Nevermind the daily prayer, volunteering my time, living as close to Christ-like as I can, living and let live, I listen to metal, so I’m screwed. Damn these guys are dumd.
I wouldn’t worry about Jones or anyone in the WBC going to Heaven.
Don’t forget Rev. Wright.
If you were born into a sub-equal race, you might understand Rev. Wright’s sermons better. Then again, if you actually listened to one you’d understand his sermons better as well. I will guess a 99 to 1 chance that you judge Rev. Wright from what you’ve seen on certain cable “news” networks rather than actually watching a full sermon from beginning to end.
Discounting all the rest.
Well its your free choice to choose Hell, just remember to hold onto the transfer ticket if you find youve made a mistake.
Funny you should mention the WBC…
Actually we’re all going nowhere. Just in a variety of wooden (or ecologically friendly) boxes. (Me, I’m opting for a Burial at Sea, a. Because I was a sailor and b. Because I want to get a Fat Italian to go “He’s sleeping with the Fishes”
I LOL’d!
this cretin is nothing but an ignorant publicity whore and the media are enabling him by covering this atrocity. if he truly believes God is telling him to do this, he needs some serious mental health treatment. he’s a very sick puppy.
‘God’s will’ usually translates to ‘my will’ when spoken by those spreading hate in the name of God.
The media should be horse whipped for making this international news. Why doesn’t Obama give them orders to not cover this guy?
Because it is a free press, or this isn’t the US. Darn it.
If this idiot really was brave, he would do his Koran burning in Baghdad. I wish he would.
Yes, we have a free press, just like we have freedom of speech and should be allowed to burn whatever we want. But we also need to use discretion – so should the press.
No no no no no. ILPB said it’s all or nothing. Either we have complete freedom of speech or we have none. So if the press wants to give this guy his own Koran burning TV show, you have to be just as okay with it as his right to do it on his own. ILPB said so.
Then they should share the blame, more on their side because of the international coverage they are providing for everyone’s rioting pleasure.
Blame? Who cares about the rioting? They’re exercising their rights, and that’s all that matters. The consequences, which will never be the same, are irrelevant.
Especially if they call the cyber police.
They back traced it.
Oh yes. Why doesn’t the President tell the media what they should and shouldn’t report on? What a great idea… Oh wait.
Well, the president did tell the American people who they should and shouldn’t listen to………
I think if a network is claiming me as part of a religion i’m not, born somewhere i’m not, and that i am the biggest threat to America…I’d probably tell people not to listen to them either.
You mean how MSNBC called Bush a Nazi? I realize that’s not a religion, but it’s a pretty serious charge, and I don’t recall Bush weighing in on the American people getting to choose what they want to watch.
The difference is nobody actually believes Bush is a nazi. That was hyperbole. Fox is dead serious when they say those things about Obama.
Your buddy Olby does
“Glenn Beck uses more swastika props and video of the Nuremberg Rally than the History Channel”. Lewis Black
That’s because Obama is a Nazi. Geez dude, pay attention.
You need pickle relish.
Nobody takes Olbermann seriously, and he’s the king of hyperbole anyway…well, maybe second to Beck.
But Bush was a Ring Ding Nazi. If it wasn’t just right he’d have one of his staff crucifed to the God of Hostess.
Ah ha! No wonder we have an obesity problem now. All this time we thought he was a Christian he was praying to a God of snack foods.
Well a pretzel did try to kill him after all… I can see where he’d have a suspicion of snack foods
It never ceases to amuse me how often the loudest Christians are the least Christ-like. I’m more afraid of radical Christians in America than I am of radical Muslims, honestly, because the former are more likely to be taken seriously.
I agree. I sadness me that in a country preaching freedom of religon and speech ect. people can be so ignorant and narrow- mindded to other groups of people.
I completely agree with you SSG Jake, I wish everyone shared your opinions.
If one thing truly repulses you this year, let this man’s actions be that one thing. This guy is pure idiot. He’s going to incite violence, and reinforce the terrorists’ claims that our nation hates Islam. Way to go, dipsh1t.
Ummm what about that 1st Amendment you were championing earlier….. *sits and waits for back spin*
I’ll have a go at spinning it
I don’t think anyone wants to physically deny his right to burn these books, (especially as he’s supporting his local Muslim community by buying so many Qu’rans in the first place) but I just think everyone wishes he would consider the consequences that his actions will have and let reason take hold.
It’s just a wish though, we’ve all seen enough of these extremists to know that “reason” and “consideration” and “respect for others” are dirty, dirty words. So people think taking action is the only way to stop him, however unlike freaks like Jones we think words like “consideration” and “reason” and “respect for others” are fine ideals so we don’t do anything.
I’ve seen enough posts here that say that extent. I’m here to call those on their hypocrisies who scream of 1st Amendment, and are infuriated by those wanting to stop others from their 1st Amendment rights, and here they are doing it to this man.
You don’t think the KKK is inciting violence or hate? What about those burning flags in front of veterans? Or those who have burned bible sin protest? Everytime someone’s reacted in violence it’s fallen upon those commiting the violence, but when it’s the Muslims, we’ll give them a pass. It’s bull$hit, it’s hypocritical, and to me smells of fear rather than respect.
Any Muslim who reacts in violence against this Jones fellow in the US is going to be (as he or she should be) arrested and subjected to the full force of the law.
However the US can exercise no legal control over the actions of others in other sovereign nations, even the ones they occupy, because US law stops at the US borders. Other countries do not have the luxury of a civilised society ruled by law, therefore you can’t always expect their citizens to maintain the same standard of civility as Americans expect from themselves, so sometimes it’s simply wiser and more prudent (especially when you occupy one these less civilised countries) to behave in a manner which doesn’t make your job harder.
It’s not fear either to show restraint in this manner, it’s about showing reason, wisdom and respect for other people, regardless of whether they respect you or not.
Also saying that because others don’t show you respect so you don’t have to show them respect is just childish, divisive and immature.
No it’s being held hostage by a group of people who will jump to violence. I thought we stood up to bullies rather let them “win” through “reason, wisdom, and respect”.
So burning the Koran is showing them that they’re not winning? Seriously now.
No, but if we have to modify our behavior so they don’t become violent, then they are controlling us.
I don’t war the color red in a neighborhood full of Crips.
The Crips are controlling me. Great logic.
Actually, if you don’t wear red, and you want to wear red, because someone threatens you, then you ARE being controlled.
I want to dance naked in the streets. Unfortunately, I can’t. ZOMG I’m being controlled!!!
Well there are laws against that, laws we all agree to follow. But the crips aren’t the cops.
Guess what? In Texas, there is no law against going around naked. Is it a good idea? Nope.
Not without sunscreen!
There’s no law against poking bears with sticks, but doing so is pretty fvcking stupid. Is the bear controlling me? But you know what? If I poke a bear, I get mauled by a bear. If dipsh1t burns Korans, our troops could be the victims of the rage against that man. His actions affect other people.
No laws in Austin against going topless…no laws whatsoever. It’s a beautiful town.
In Texas, you can do whatever doesn’t expose your genitals. In Texas, boobies are not genitals
Under that premise, taxes are also control.
I want to wear red, but I wont cause I’ll get SHOT. Hell, I love the color red like anyone else, but if it puts my life and the life of others I’m with in danger, perhaps I should think twice. How much do I really care about red? That’s not being controlled, that’s being aware of the consequences of your actions.
Or as we youngins say, “it’s being street smart dawg!”.
Yes, but you are modifying your behavior because of threats from some street thugs. There is a difference between that and everyone agreeing in a civilized society that we all will pay a certain percentage of our income for common needs.
So are you going to wear red around the crips just so you aren’t controlled by them, itsybitsy? Because if you do, you’re just fvcking stupid.
Not everyone agreed to income taxes which why there is a movement to get rid of them. Ever heard of FairTax?
I don’t agree that modifying your behavior is necessarily being controlled. In some instances, perhaps I can agree, but not when you have to modify your behavior to avoid severe consequences. Otherwise, every part of our life is some sort of control.
Couple of examples.
1.) I have to give a school bully lunch money or I get beat up. I can agree that this is a small degree of control, as I can always not bring lunch money or just defend myself even if I lose.
2.) A woman is in an abusive relationship and no matter how much the man mistreats her, she stays and does whatever he says. She can always simply leave and get help, but doesn’t because of some psychological hold he has on her. This is definite control.
3.) You have to do what your boss says or you get fired. So in order to keep your job to pay your bills and put food on the table, you modify. Is it fair to say this is control?
No, Rando, I won’t. But I’m being controlled by them because they are affecting my behavior. This is not a difficult concept. Sometimes we agree to be controlled as a society, that’s why we have laws. Then there are times we are controlled by bullies.
Look, the extremists are bears, and the guy burning the Koran is poking them with a stick. Now, it’s still totally wrong if they explode on us with violence, but seriously, there’s no need to poke them. First of all, it makes them look right about us. They always insist we hate Islam, and this just plays into their hands. Secondly, do we really need any extra violence now? I think not. Right or wrong, it’s just not smart.
But they aren’t bears, they aren’t subhuman, they are human beings just like we are. They should be held to the same standards of civility as we hold ourselves. Why should we adjust our behavior so they won’t explode? I’m not saying I agree with what the guy is doing. But if we back down on this, then what is the next thing we may have to change so they won’t “explode”? Where will it lead to?
Your standard of civility is different than mine which is different than theirs. In their culture, it’s ok to stone a woman to death for looking at a man who isn’t her husband. Why do you get to choose what the standard of civility is?
Well, they aren’t animals. Let’s start from there.
Actually the third part is slightly spurious logic. (I’ve taken my Sailors head off and have replaced it with my Lawyer’s head) It is control in a way, but in this case (I’m not sure how it goes in America, but this is the case in the UK) you would have employment law to protect you. Your tasks would be given in accordance to the terms of reference of your job (you should be given this when you start the job. It’s usually the first piece of paper you have to sign.) It will normally include a phrase saying (or something similar) “and to include any other tasks given that can be reasonably assumed to be part of the job”. If you work in IT, filing work to do with computers would be part of your tasks, replacing the printer paper so that you can print would be part of the task, but to quote the thing above, running through Texas naked would definately not consitute part of your Job Description and if your employer takes you to task for not doing this you can take him to a Employment Tribunal (I’ve been to a few of these. Bloody boring things they are too!!) where you would state your case and the employer would then have to justify why he believes that running naked through Texas would be part of the job of an IT Consultant. (Like I say this applies to the UK, NOT the US, as I don’t know the specifics of US Employment law)
Itsybitsy, the word you’re looking for is “adapting.” You’re not being controlled, you are adapting your behaviour to the situation. It is a voluntary and logical action, not mind control.
There’s a big difference between standing up to bullies and deliberately antagonising them, a wise country would recognise that. Also showing wisdom, reason and respect to your enemies doesn’t equal showing weakness, only an insecure, immature country would think that it does.
Actually this is slightly wrong. For a case in point look at Chamberlin (UK Prime Minister) in the 1930s. He granted Hitler access to the Sudetenland, (and any other land
), bent over backwars to show reason and respect, only to have that shoved in his face by Hitler in 1939 when Hitler invaded Poland and stuck two fingers up at everyone else when he was told to leave. A Wise country knows when talking is useless and that military action is the only way to go. (That was shown by Churchill, who was an extremely wise leader (and also half drunk most of the time 
) who repeatedly said that Hitler would only respond to military action (even in the early stages of the war Chamberlin and Lord Halifax tried to get Hitler to pull back and grant a ceasefire. It wasn’t until Chamberlin resigned and Churchill took over that Britain stood a chance.
so not burning holy books is equated with ceding territory to hitler?
It does if you read the statement properly – ” a wise country would recognise that. Also showing wisdom, reason and respect to your enemies doesn’t equal showing weakness, only an insecure, immature country would think that it does”. It was this policy that lead to the Second World War, as Hitler invaded Poland since he thought that no one (as previous years had proven) had the cojones to stand up to him. So I was stating a simple fact that sometimes that statement does not apply. Yes I think we all agree that burning anyone’s holy text is wrong, but then so is the statement, sometimes you need to flex your muscles in order to show that you’re not going to stand for a certain thing.
yes, but it could be argued that showing wisdom, reason, and respect in the case of Nazi Germany would have been to oppose them with military force
they were clearly saying that having knee-jerk reactions were bad and you did a little needless picking
because if you read the entire statement instead of cherry picking, they also said “There’s a big difference between standing up to bullies and deliberately antagonising them”
are you suggesting that using military force against Hitler wouldn’t fall under the category of “standing up to bullies” and would instead be “deliberately antagonising them”?
So I’m supposed to be okay with this just because it’s legal? WTF is wrong with you? This just fuels the fire for the terrorists and gives more credence to the idea that America hates Islam. Is that really the message we want to send people? Hey, it’s his right to burn Korans, sure why not. Let’s all enjoy the backlash afterward, shall we?
Again, just because he has the right to do it, doesn’t mean he should do it. And no, there’s nothing we can do to stop him. Which is too bad because he’s fvcked in the head.
Weren’t you villifying me for the saying the same thing before?
So you’re saying people should think of the backlash prior to exercising their 1st Amendment right? HMMMMMMMMM
I never siad you had to be ok with what he’s doing, however you championed stopping him, not asking him to stop but forcing him to stop.
Where did I say we can force him to stop? We can’t force him to stop. He could do a lot of damage with this. It’s not cool at all.
When you fistbumped Crickets “1st Amendment be damned” speech.
I never said it was cool what he is doing, I recoil of almost 60% of the freedom of speech $hit out there. However I must support his right to do it, as much as I support the KKK’s right, Rev WRight’s right, hippies burning the flag’s right, etc…. you can’t pick and choose as you told me before.
If someone said they were burning a bunch of Bibles (which I morally oppose doing) just to piss off some Christian radicals, I’d want them stopped too. Especially if they were trying to piss off Christian radicals with a history of violence.
You don’t have to support free speech ILPB, you just have to allow it. By the way, do you see any difference in the KKK killing innocent people, and Rev. Wright preaching about inequalities in race? Geez dude, there is no better way to lose intellectual credit than by equating speech with murder.
SSG Jake speaks for my Republican, Mormon, moderate household too! This Jones idiot is hate-filled and looking for publicity for some God-forsaken reason, and is NOT speaking for America or Christianity. May he stop before he kills good people with his disgusting words and actions.
Funny thing about Free Speech in America, it applies to everyone despite what leftists think.
Islamists want to get attention by putting up a Muslim Victory Shrine near the WTC, well meet someone who has topped them and shoved a stick in the eye of those who claim ‘Freedom of Religion’ mostly only for muslims.
Quack.
Ducking the issue.
Stop using such fowl language.
Help!! The Pheasants are revolting.
Quick! Everyone climb up the Poul-Tree. We’ll be safe there.
Are you stark raven mad? Stay heron the ground and fight!
*quails at what she started*
Someone is making a huge issue out of this thing when it’s obviously an issue of freedom of speech. We are allowed to burn books, flags, whatever if we want. Press could have let it go, not sure what’s going on here. Is it possible they want to incite violence for some reason?
Of course Free Speech applies to everyone, that’s why everyone is telling this Jones freak what they really think of his moronic “church” and their idea, however it’s unfair to Christians for him to associate himself with the Christian G-d because his behaviour is decidedly un-Christian and the Christian population of America have the right to tell him so. But he’s still free to practice his perverted beliefs but burning books is not a religious act by any religion.
Ironically, by committing this Qu’ran burning event, Jones actually shares more in common with the 9/11 terrorist attackers than he does with any other religious organisation by the way they both twist their beliefs to justify and commit reprehensible acts against their fellow man.
So you support this? Wow, you can eat sh1t and die then. Please get right on that.
No, dude. We DON’T support it. BUT, what we’re saying is we CAN’T stop him. It IS protected speech. I think everyone here has said that we HOPE, WISH,or PRAY that he won’t, but we will not stop him, because he is well within his rights.
Trust me when I say you don’t speak for Pulse.
Wow, you just regurgitate it as it’s fed to you, don’t you?
Who argued that it doesn’t apply to this?
Does everything have to be “us vs them”?
I won’t argue that this, person doesn’t have the right to do this, but he’s not even going to stop to consider he might be putting people in danger, but I guess his conciense(sp?) is clear because he won ‘t personally have to deal wit hit.
And wait for word from his god? That sounds like he’s going to do it no matter what people say.
The religions need to accept that they all exist and need to let each other be, but people like this pastor are making that impossible.
["Funny thing about Free Speech in America, it applies to everyone despite what leftists think."]
Funny thing about what leftists think, Reich Wingers always get it wrong. And in the meantime, they blatantly contradict themselves. For example, trying to deny leftists their own right to free speech by pretending that condemning hate-filled bigots is an infringement on the bigot’s free speech rights.
I’ll spill a small secret. Pointing out that hate-filled bigots are hate-filled bigots doesn’t stop them from spewing their hate-filled bigotry. If certain people were to come to understand that, then they would become much better Americans.
Hatespeech isn’t protected as I remember.
Well it’s entirely in his right to do it. Free speech and all. Same with bibles, Torah, American flags or anything else. That said. That or any of the above still would make him a douchebag.
Let’s see… people burn the US flag, put crucifixes in jars of pee, etc, and it’s free speech. People get outraged about it, but that’s about it.
Someone draws a cartoon of Mohammad and people get killed and the world panics.
Someone goes to burn the Quran and the world panics. Why? Because they’re afraid. They’re afraid Muslims will get offended and start killing people. I wish people would wake up and start realizing what’s going on. If people are that afraid of how someone else might react, that isn’t freedom, that’s living in fear. That’s what the terrorists and extremists WANT. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in favor of being disrespectful of anyone’s beliefs, but it’s the way people are reacting to this that is the problem. They say it’s going to put the troops in danger. Did I miss something here? Are they not already in danger every moment they’re in a warzone? Don’t the extremists already want to kill them? If that’s the case, than what’s the fear here? Is it the fear that Muslims will perceive that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are religious wars?
I hate to break this to the world, but it IS a religious war. Islamic terrorists aren’t killing because of political views or economic reasons. They kill because they believe it’s their duty to Allah. They see it as a religious war, their version of Islam vs the world. I wish people would stop being apologists for the Muslims. Coexistence requires BOTH sides to make concessions. Everyone’s gone out of the way to not offend Muslims lately. I think it’s time for the Muslim world to demonstrate the same tolerance it’s been shown by everyone else.
Let this guy burn the Quran if he wants. I don’t agree with him, but let’s see what happens. You all know how tolerant Christians are of people burning their stuff, and of Americans for people burning their flag. Let’s see how tolerant the Muslim world can be of someone trashing their stuff.
People in Afghanistan are fighting not for their God, but because they want the occupying force to leave their country.
And they want us to leave because the Taliban wants to impose Islamic style Sharia law on the population and we are preventing that.
Taliban support has increased hugely since the American occupation of the country, and most of those people join because they just want American forces to leave.
And they want us to leave because? What do you think will happen when we leave? Remember when the women had to stay home, even if they had no way to support themselves? They had to leave their jobs and wear big blue tents when they went out in the street? That’s what they (Taliban, not the women) want.
It’s the duty of the family to support the woman when she cannot support herself, and by family I mean uncles brothers cousins regardless of if she is married or not.
And it’s called a burka, not a big blue tent.
They want Western forces to leave because they aren’t welcomed by anyone other than the failing government, regardless of if American forces stay that government is going to collapse and be replaced.
I’m not saying that Sharia law is right, but it’s a fight they have to do on their own, not have it imposed upon them.
OMG. OMG. Are you a man?
Well that’s an interesting non-sequitur.
OMG. OMG. Are you a person on a computer?
You took me aback with you comment, sorry I made a better response below…
Maybe you don’t remember, these were women who were professionals. Teachers, doctors, professors, lawyers, it wasn’t about them not being able to support themselves it was because they were women. I for one would NOT like to see the country take a huge step back and lose what they have gained and what we fought for and lost troops and money for. (I know it’s not why we went there, but still) I’m pretty sure the women, and the young girls in school now, want that either.
Yes, all that occurred when the Soviets were occupying Afghanistan, before we helped drive THEM out.
You are saying the Soviets are to blame for Taliban imposed sharia?
You realize that America financed and armed what became the Taliban, right?
And specifically Bin Laden…
Sure, it wasn’t clear what she meant by that. Not the best move on our part.
Hey I’m not saying it’s right, but our forces being there? Have we made any difference at all? The government has still failed and the Taliban has gained more support than they have ever had in the past. To many people there it is no longer about religion, it’s about fighting for their land.
The Taliban one way or another control all but one of the provincial governments of Afghanistan, so we can say we’re trying to help all we want but it’s not making a difference.
I think the way we look at and deal with the Middle East as a whole needs to change. At the moment we treat them as being so completely backwards and alien to us, not really doing a whole to even attempt to understand their culture or beliefs. If we had a better understanding of the way their culture and society, and tried talking to them rather than pointing a gun, the situation could improve.
We should have turned that entire area into a Wal-Mart parking lot. Shock and Awe my ass……it wasn’t enough. The Taliban just moved into the friendlier areas of Pakistan and Iran and are setting up shop around the frigging nuclear weapons.
I like that idea but on a smaller scale. We could have been harder on the Taliban.
Dylan Moran has the best quote on it:
skip the first two minutes if you want
We can blame Bush for the failure in Afghanistan last decade. No, really, we can. He took his eye off the ball to go invade Iraq and gave the Taliban a chance to regroup instead of making them extinct.
You’re right, we can blame him for that. He should have Shocked and Awed the sh!t out of them, and he didn’t.
And that was a war he really did have most of the country’s support on. We were kicking the bad guys’ asses, and looking for Bin Laden. Iraq…geez, what a joke.
And yes, we have made a marked difference in the area. The Taliban has moved on, for the most part, and the Iraqi and Afghani people are more free than they’ve ever been. It’s a matter of teaching them to keep the Taliban out and growing as a nation. Of course, they’ve been trying to get out of third world status for millennia, so I doubt it’s goign to happen soon.
You sure about them being more free than ever?
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/afghan-insurgency-can-sustain-itself-indefinitely-top-us-intel-officer/
Considering the way women are being treated now, yes, I’d say more free than ever. It’s a step in the right direction, but they need several thousand more steps in the same direction to be called truly free.
Blame the Mongol invasions of the 13th century, that made the Middle East [among other regions] very insular and unwilling to change or even consider new ideas.
Well, we aren’t allow to hit them very hard, we have to be more and more careful of collateral damage and our troops are hamstrung in many cases. We need to take the handcuffs off our troops and the Taliban would be history.
It’s kind of similar to Vietnam, and by that I mean how the people fighting are mixed in with the community, making it near impossible to avoid collateral damage.
You can’t be gentle, unfortunately, when you’re fighting with people who don’t regard human life as highly as we do. If they’re going to use women and children as shields, well………do you want to win or do you want another Vietnam?
That’s basically asking someone to give up their principles in order to revoke those of another.
War sucks. But if you’re in it, you should be in it to win it. Or don’t put our military in harms way.
“But if you’re in it, you should be in it to win it. Or don’t put our military in harms way.”
That’s exactly the reason why we shouldn’t have been there in the first place. These wars are ridiculous. Why are we even there? What did we “win”? Watch the vid I posted.
I agree, we had a positive effect in Iraq as well, it could be done in Afghanistan too.
The murderers that flew airliners into the World Trade Center weren’t asking Americans to leave Afghanistan, they were killing in the name of Allah. Stupid subject-changing troll.
Are you calling 1.6 BILLION believers in Allah murderers because what 12 people did? Seriously is that the point you’re trying to make? You aren’t as smart or as open minded as you think you are. Hatred isn’t taught in the Quran, The Old Testament, or The New Testament..which, by the way, all believe in the same God. Learn your own faith from a book, don’t let some pundit on Fox News, or some pastor that wants you to burn someone’s elses faith. Those aren’t the teachings of Jesus, Abraham, or Isaiah. don’t act like your political fear, religious fear, or just plain ignorance is anything that will garner anything except negativity (not just here, but negativity around the world). Freedom of religion is an constitutionally protected American value, cherish it instead of fearing and hating it.
There are WAY more than 12 that believe in what they did and support them. They hold their religion and sharia law above our laws and our constitution. They believe that our laws are man made and therefore it is man legislating another man which they consider oppressive, while their laws are from God and are more fair. I wonder how far we will have to take freedom of religion in this case.
You know there are people in the world that feel the same way with Christianity, and hold the bible above the laws of a state and even use it to control what laws are put in place.
Of course, there are some, but they are happy with voting in candidates that believe the way they do, etc. They don’t call for the complete elimination of our system of government like those that want Sharia implemented.
They just want to vote Sharia implementing politicians in, what makes your religion any different than theirs?
Did I say 1.6 billion people are murderers? No, I said the 12 that flew into the world trade center were, and the ones that follow that ideology are going to murder whether someone burns the Quran or not. The world is ACTING like the 1.6 billion will suddenly turn violent if someone burns their holy book. That’s the problem I’m referring to. What’s everyone so afraid of?
You should also stop making assumptions about what people think and believe. My faith is my business and YOU know nothing about it, especially if you assume I get my faith from Fox News or any other media outlet. If you asked me I would tell you that I am very tolerant of other beliefs and I would never force anyone to believe anything they do not wish to. You speak of ignorance and then practice it in spades. Perhaps you should try asking questions and then listen and actually try to learn from others what they think instead of making assumptions. If you want to solve the problem of ignorance, remove the beam from your own eye first.
The assumptions I make are that you are uninformed about the war, intolerant of other people’s intolerance, and basically an open and closed book. I can predict your opinion on just about anything because you are so damn predictable. My assumptions about you are that you will take offense to my assumptions, and that you will retort by attacking them and accusing me of assuming too much. I assume your faith is so strong, that you attend church maybe (at best) once a month, and you read the bible even less. I assume you will retort with a denial of such assumption as well, and probably an assumption of my own ignorance. i assume, you don’t realize that telling other people not to assume is the weakest passive aggressive debate possible. You claim tolerance and then say lets see how they like it….what a maroon
Sorry, but I don’t feed trolls. Continue to believe whatever you want. I won’t stop you.
Wicket? A troll? Silly Phoenix. Wicket is no troll.
Well I certainly won’t deny being silly, but Wicket’s comments in this particular case appear to have been posted simply to bait me. The troll that I will not feed is pointless argument. I will discuss things, I will state what I believe in all honesty, I may even rant from time to time, but I simply refuse to argue. What’s the point? To “win”? How does that profit me any? On the contrary, if Wicket feels he’s won, what does that profit him? Should I be an accessory to the sin of pride or be guilty of it myself? That’s a poor choice to have to make, so I’d rather choose neither. Whatever Wicket thinks about me personally is irrelevant. I bear him no ill will even if I disagree with him.
Just to be clear, I hold no ill will towards you or your opinions, nor anybody else who posts here on PK. That being said, this forum is for stating opinions AND questioning/challenging those whose opinions you disagree with. I see the Koran burning issue as black and white(a right vs wrong type of opinion), and from what you wrote it seems that you hold the opposite opinion that I do. I was challenging your opinion, that is all. I did however have some fun with your attack on my assumptions…that little higher than thou, ask before you assume type of approach. It’s fine if you only want to state your opinions…totally fine, but expect your opinions to be challenged by those that disagree. Back to the issue at hand, i see this anti-Islam fever passing over the country and i’m not liking it whatsoever. I see it being pushed by smiley glad-hands with hidden agendas and I will voice my opinion without hesitation…especially here on PK, where i feel it’s totally appropriate. There is no win or lose in a battle of opinions, get in a few more of them and you will realize that. It’s just a battle of opinions…it’s not a win or lose, it’s a can you justify your ideas without resorting to hate, fear, or ignorance. Which i believe your opinion on the Koran includes all 3.
It is good to know that you don’t proceed from a position of hostility. I have had the misfortune of dealing with people who do, and I do not like becoming hostile myself in turn. I prefer openness and honesty in discussion. So that you can understand what I do better, I also like to ask questions and attempt to get people to engage in introspection. I like to try to get people to examine their own behavior and think about why they do what they do. In my experience, very few people question their own motives, and often they make bad assumptions about others. For me, I’d prefer someone ask what I think rather than assume. I try to do the same, though I find more often than not, people dodge my questions, thinking I’m going to use their answers against them instead of just wanting to better understand why someone thinks what they think. As for winning or losing in discussions of opinion, I have seen people behave as if there is some kind of victory, that victory being in somehow proving you’re “smarter” than the other person, or better able to belittle them. In layman’s terms, you’ve won if you’ve made the other guy look like a dolt. I just don’t like to play that kind of game with people, so my apologies if I erred earlier and treated you poorly.
As for the Koran/Quran (however it’s being spelled these days), I am not in favor of burning it. I’ve said as much. I wouldn’t burn someone’s sacred text myself, even if I think it’s dead wrong. I was simply hoping that, if this went forward, it could be an opportunity for Muslims to show they’re not out to “behead all the infidels”, etc. You’ll always have your extremists, I just don’t think it makes a difference in their case since they’ve already made up their minds. I have nothing against Muslims that are peaceful. I can think their religion is wrong, but that doesn’t mean I wish to cause harm.
Speaking of extremists, I just read that the Westboro Baptist Church has stated that they’re going to burn the Quran if the Dove World Outreach Center does not. Since Jones has publicly stated he has called off the burning, I can only assume WBC is going to. I think we can both agree that the WBC really needs to go away.
Agreed on WBC going away, but I disagree that we should expect other cultures or religions to be as tolerant as we are. An example i gave earlier on a different thread compares tolerance and/or extremism to potty training a child. Just because your little brother can still crap his pants doesn’t mean it’s ok for you to. I mean ‘you’ in the general sense, not you personally. But the point is, once you evolve past extremism and intolerance, you can’t expect those that haven’t to abide by the same rules/morals/ideals that you feel should be universal. You don’t want to take a step back just to prove that your little brother isn’t potty trained yet…you just continue clean his diapers and wait until he’s ready to learn about the toilet.
What you say there makes good sense.
“…crucifixes in jars of pee…”
waitwaitstopwaitholditwait.
Um.
That guy was a money-poor artist who didn’t have a sepia filter on his camera. And he wanted a picture of jesus on the cross in sepia. So he put his own crucifix in the jar to take the picture.
So.
Yeeaah.
Bad example.
Way to be informed.
And, in my opinion, the issue about this whole thing is less that he’s “expressing his opinion and has a right to do so blah blah blah” and more about the fact that this man is suppose to be a prominent Christian, but somehow can’t grasp the concept of forgiveness, or even back up to what I myself learned in Sunday school: What Would Jesus Do? I’d hate to preach, but as you said this is a religious issue. The answer is simple: Jesus would not burn a Quran.
And you’re right. Coexistence does in fact require both sides to make concessions, but that’s really hard when we’re failing to set the example.
But I have real issues with this statement: ” Let’s see how tolerant the Muslim world can be of someone trashing their stuff.” How the flying funk does that make things right? Obviously, we haven’t done well with someone burning our stuff, because here’s a religious figure of our very own burning a Quran in retaliation. People get upset. I get upset. Let me put it simply, though: We. Do. Not. EVER. Have. To. ONCE. Drop to their level. Period. There can be no excuses for his behavior. If he wants to lead a group of people in the way of morals, he can never allow himself to forget what he teaches.
Gigan, I was simply comparing the past reactions of present day Christians when what they hold sacred is defiled vs how the world perceives Muslims are going to react if someone burns the Quran.
As for what Jesus would do, that depends on whether or not you believe he is the true Son of God and a member of the Holy Trinity. If Jesus spoke the truth, then Islam is a false religion and Revelation tells what he WILL do. If Jesus was not who he said he was, then Christianity is false and concern over what Jesus would do is moot.
As for my statements, I stand by them, despite the fact that the Quran burning will no longer take place. I simply wanted Islam to behave peacefully, the event turn out to be a non-event, and have the world’s fears be completely unfounded in this case. Understand that I simply want people to not live in fear. Why SHOULD people have to fear Islam? Why do people act like the “big bad Muslims will come out to get me” if someone burns a Quran? THAT is what I take issue with in all of this. If people feel they have to live in fear of what Muslims might do then I think they need to start asking questions about that and try to find the root of that fear.
And if someone were to burn bibles I bet this pastor would be organizing a harassment campaign.
Dear world.
It’s alright that you like fairytales, but won’t you stop using them to get the clever part of the world killed because of them?
Thanks.
The funk ever happened to that forgiveness thing?
Isn’t this guy suppose to teach that kind of stuff?
<.<
A controversy because he’s burning the Qur’an? REALLY?
Has anyone considered that symbols are burned all the time to make a point and nobody ever cares? Has anyone realized if it was any religion, country, philosophy or whatever besides Islam there would not be such a controversy?
Has anyone even thought that if these were atheists burning a bible and catholics making a fuss, everyone would be telling the catholics “Get over it and stop being so uptight and childish, it’s just a book” and Catholics burned books written by atheists all the time through history”?
Has anyone seen the protests in the Middle-East, where extremists were speaking of killing Americans just because one guy decided to burn the Qur’an?
Has anyone noticed the slightly subtle threats made by Muslims living in America over this event? Like “If this happens, Americans will be killed in every country just for being Americans” and such?
Why is it that every time something is about Islam, we are so careful not to offend Muslims the slightest bit, even though we do not show the same caution towards other countries and religions?
If that guy was burning the symbol of any other country or religion, people would just say “He’s stupid” and move one. They would not even talk about it actually.
If someone burned an Italian flag and Italy made such a scandal, we would be responding with “This is free speech”, “caring about this is childish and petty”, etc.
We don’t have to respect Islam as if we were all Muslims. Respecting it as much as we respect other religions is good enough, there is absolutely no need for a special treatment.
Yes, burning the Qur’an is childish and a bit offensive to Muslims. But why would we have to feel guilty if we ever told offended Muslims the same thing we would tell anyone: “get over it, it’s just a book and you need to learn not everybody on this planet cares about your religion as much as you do”.
Is it the death threats from extremists that have gotten so much into people, or is it the regular accusations of being racist if you don’t respect Islam to the point of almost worshiping it?
Pretty much what I was saying. I’m sure some will throw out “quack” here, but he is 100% absolutely right. We’re not treating Muslims any different than any other “class” of people. But apparently we need to treat them special, b/c “some of them” get violent.
It’s not the Muslims in American that anyone is worried about. And it wouldn’t really even be Muslims overseas to worry about if we didn’t have American men and women living smack dab in the middle of their countries.
I don’t think anyone thinks AMERICAN Muslims are going to start killing troops. Anymore that Americans would start killing troops if this man decided to burn bibles or flags next.
And yes, it’s wrong for people to resort to violence because they are ‘offended’.
However, you can say it’s wrong of them to kill people and we shouldn’t kow-tow to their threats, but it’s really easy to stand on principle when it’s not your body being used for target practice.
Bottom line, yes, this ‘preacher’ has the right to burn anything his heart desires, but he is also responsible for the consequences. If someone loses their life because of his actions, he is responsible for starting the chain of events leading to that death.
Bill Maher comes on air on tuesday. He will have something to say.
Hey, this just in! Well, I heard on the radio that the koran guy is not going to burn the koran on 9/11. He agreed not to and – this may be a rumor – the imam Rauf says he is going to build the mosque elsewhere too. Hope it’s true!
I just saw the cancellation on the local paper’s website.
Confirmed?
AOL and Yahoo both have front page stories, the plot thickens.
From MSNBC.com:
Why do I feel like all his witnesses will be people from his church who as fanatics really cannot be trusted in their views?
Meh, take him at his word, he deserves at least that until proven otherwise.
I guess he isn’t as bad as the WBC freaks afterall, good for him.
Suppose we’ll see, he’s meant to be going up to New York City tomorrow to discuss the matter. Which should be interesting considering this is the man who wrote a book titled ‘Islam is of the Devil’
Not as bad? He’s holding us hostage to get the community center moved! If he doesn’t get his way, the quran burning is back on. This two-bit bigot is actually being taken seriously by people because his stupid protest could cause serious damage. The guy is a sleaze.
And if the community center is moved, or just flat out canceled as he likely wants it to be, WBC will hold their own burning and we’ll be right back in the same seat.
And WBC will happily pour the lighter fluid without making demands.
The terrorists are being given what they want in either case.
He’s the leader of friggin’ 50ish people. The guy is a sleaze, but the main issue to me is how the devil this became such a big issue. Why did media decide to give him the space he craves? Who thought this was worthy of being blown up to a major issue? SPANKING TIME.
Media luuuurves them some noise-makin’.
The story I just read said he called it off, but the Imam has not agreed to move the center elsewhere.
A friend just posted a news story on Facebook saying that Donald Trump has offered to buy out the main investor in the GZ mosque.
I saw that one, he is offering to pay something like 1.5 million more for the space.
I haven’t seen that one. Link? The MSNBC story specifically said the Imam has not agreed to move it elsewhere.
No, this one is about Donald Trump offering to buy the land, not about the imam moving, which he is now saying, sadly, that he hasn’t agreed to it. Check out aol dot com, front page.
The main investor in the community centre has said if someone can offer him sufficient money for the rights to building he will sell them the land.
However I doubt he’s the only investor, so whoever buys him out would have to buy the others out also
http://www.wmal.com/Article.asp?id=1945901
If he does, Westboro Baptist Church said they will hold their own burning.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t
Great, this is going to start a chain reaction.
Where it gets moved to next people will begin a campaign there to scare them into moving again, then again in a new location.
Give in once and people will keep at you for life.
It is time to hold every religion on the face of this planet on trial. Every religious leader will now be held accountable and this is the one rule.
You must in a court of international law, in public view of the entire planet:
Provide absolute physical proof of your GOD! Your GOD must appear in court with no tricks, no smoke and mirrors and no fakery. If you cannot get your GOD to show up in court then your religion is NULL and VOID and
henceforth abolished and illegal. Anyone worshiping a GOD that cannot
prove its, his, her or their existence will also henceforth be condemned to death so as to NOT allow any other person to be persecuted for another persons beliefs. No more wars will be fought over religion. No more children have to die over a GOD that never does a thing to prove their existence and no one will ever again have in any way by international law the right to commit an act of war, rebellion, genocide, insurrection, coup, inquisition or murder while hiding behind a religion that worships a GOD that does not really exist. Books and old Stories are INADMISSIBLE! The message is simple Prove It or SHUT the HELL UP! And GET THE HELL OUT!
Quack.
Doesn’t work that way, sport. Feel free to go cry some more about it though.
Am I the only one who thinks that all those tags in-comic are redundant? It would be just as critical of today’s fiasco if the caveman went unnamed, and the book, too. Book burning has been around way before this new chapter of idiocy, and it’s been wrong for just as long.
I dislike the way these comic artists feel the need to explain everything. If it doesn’t work w/o words, maybe it just doesn’t work. Political cartoons should be mostly self-explanatory.
/rant
Oh Chris I am sooooooo sorry. Did I offend your poor little xtian pride. Awwww here let me put a band-aid on it. There is that better? You poor little offended xtian. Now lets talk about how your good little xtian friends came to my beautiful beloved land and murdered millions of my ancestors and family. Oh and lets talk about how your good little xtian friends had so called Holy Crusades and how they brought the wrath of islam upon themselves. And lets talk about the Spanish Inquisition and how the catholic church murdered millions and tortured millions in the name of their god. So chris poor little chris you religious nut bag I hope you can find it in you poor little offended xtian heart to forgive a poor lost sole like me. I’m only acting out in anger of the atrocities that every religion on the face of this planet is guilty of. Have a nice day you religious nut job. Ain’t karma a B!tch.
My CHRISTian friends (not xtian, that’s not even a word) didn’t do any of those things. Although, to be honest, I don’t have that many Christian friends. But the ones I do have, were born many centuries after the crusades or the inquisition and have not committed any atrocities. You’re angry about things done a long time ago by people long since dead.
Leave it to the Christian Right and Tea Baggers, to protect America from “terrorists”, by using terrorist tactics on Americans.
This whole thread is founded on a misconception IMO. Burninga Quran (Koran, whatever) in the US wouldn’t be equivalent to, say, burning a Bible in a moslem country. In Saudi Arabia, for instance, handing out Bibles to passers-by would probably get you a lengthy prison term if not worse. Whereas free speech is regarded as a sacred right in the west generally and the US in particular there is no such principle in areas where fundy Islam holds sway
Keep tying ourselves up in knots about offending people who hold us in contempt? Let me make it perfectly clear….we can never be tolerant and open-minded enough to get their respect….they dont respect those things.