Cartoon by Keefe, The Denver Post
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Is that an owl down there at the bottom?
O.o
Pet owls are very popular among nocturnal couples these days.
The Tootsiepop bills must be enormous though, they don’t take more than 3 licks.
Crunch.
Another comic with the subtlety of a brick, another comic bound to create a sh*tstorm of controversy.
This is gonna get ugly…
Why? There isn’t anybody left who actually believes Iraq got better.
Except for possibly those Iraqis freed from false imprisonment. Or those Iraqi kids that are able to go to school now.
But alsa **sigh** let us once again glamorize a website without the courage to go after any country that would certainly, well retaliate. Wiki-leaks is the equivalent of a child who’ll make fun of someone bigger knowing that person won’t do anything about it, but will certainly avoid the School Yard Bully.
Iraq is messy, but it was messy before.
Our attempts to help weren’t always helpful.
Yup.
Wiki Leaks is an annoying nudge.
– perhaps more annoying for folks who prefer Pomp and wanna forget the Circumstance.
Would a Seasonal Cider work well with Peanut Butter?
There’s a local Pumpkin Ale that’s pretty tasty.
Actually I think the opposite. I think our media and public try and focus on the number of dead soldiers the number of dead civilians, the number of bombs, but rarely focus on the “Pomp.”
Wikki leaks isn’t an annoying nudge, but an illegal website, that constitutes Spying. International law is pretty specific on this. Publishing obtained secret documents without the consent of the Country, is spying, therefore the cretor of Wikki-Leaks could end up in prison for a very long time if he ever ends up in a country with extradition treaties with the US.
I like a good Apple Cider, with a hint of cinamon and a lot of rum please.
Oh and warm too.
Oooh, spying? Now you’ve made me curious.
I think cider in any form is excellent with peanut butter. Hot apple cider with nutmeg and cinnamon with a plate of peanut butter cookies sounds good, perhaps even a PB&J sounds even better with the hot cider.
The RS article on one of the Americans involved in Wikileaks was very eye opening, and frightening.
Not sure what to think about the whole thing….but I’m pretty sure that such leaks during wartime can be considered an act of treason.
But on the other hand…there were quite a few dirty deeds covered up by the Pentagon during the Bush years. And they do need to be exposed, but I don’t think this is the way to do it.
And it seems that some people only take offense to Wikileaks when it exposes bad things the American military has done and covered up.
As for the cider…make mine a double please.
I hadn’t even heard of Wikki-leaks until this debacle. I’m 100% for punishing those who commit crimes in a time of war. I think it needs to be exposed, but not like this.
And isnce dumba$s head (forgot his name) isn’t an American citizen he can’t be charged with treason, but with espionage.
Read the Rolling Stone article ILPB, there IS an American involved.
Though the founder is European I believe.
Yes the military dude is getting tried, but the person who accepted the classified material also can be charged with espionage.
I’m talkin about the American Ubergeek who works for Wikileaks.
I didn’t know they had an American Serviceman being tried already.
Yeah he’s the one who actually gave the material to Wikki-leaks. snuck it out on CDs labeled “Lady Gaga”. He’ll be lucky to ever see the sun not from behind bars.
Welcome to the information revolution, it’s only been going on for the last 20 years
Wikileaks is a prime example of the online promise of democratized knowledge. Countries don’t matter on the Internet, political leaders are powerless (both the good leaders and the monsters), ordinary people now have access to knowledge that, for good or bad, they never would’ve been able to access before.
Like them or not, sites like Wikileaks are here to stay and are unstoppable on the ‘net, and I for one revel in the chaos it causes to traditional power bases
And such sites will now allow countries to pass such laws that allow them to “monitor” the internet. Chaos sites like this, though try and tout freedom will only end up costing many people their freedoms. All it will take is that first guy getting caught and spending the rest of his/her life in jail.
Monitoring the entire ‘net is impossible though thanks to the way it’s been designed. Even China’s Great Firewall has many, many holes in it.
Governments will all have a good crack at it though but currently it’s all reactionary and reacting after the fact something is out there on the Internet means it’s way too late to stop it.
The argument that this will restrict peoples freedoms is a good one and one that is genuinely concerning but I couldn’t put all of the blame on sites like Wikileaks, governments have their fair share of guilt when it comes to restricting freedom especially when they have the choice to adapt to the changing landscape instead of trying to mold it into their desired image.
Julian Assange is the name you’re looking for I think. I believe he’s Swedish.
Linky
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/17389/192242
I don’t know much about wiki-leaks either, so I won’t defend them at all. However, I know you’re a reasonable, informed person, so I’m a little surprised you’re taking such a strong stance about an organization you’ve only just heard of.
Do you think the revealed information is significant? How do you feel about knowing that more Iraqi civilians were killed than insurgents? What’s your opinion about the Pentagon’s orders not to investigate torture committed by our Iraqi partners? What do you think about knowing the military was lying when they said they didn’t know how many enemies had been killed?
I’m upset b/c it’s sole purpose (at this point) is to undermine the Allied forces in both IRaq and Afghanistan. Earlier this year they released documents that had confidential Afghan informants information on it. Basically outing people who helped Allied forces against the Taliban. Therefore telling the Taliban who to kill.
Though the information might be significant, it’s fruit from a poisoned tree. Also since it’s from a source who has a bias, was the information doctored at all? How am I to rust a source that lies and steals as well? (I don’t trust our government either ask anyone here.)
Oh and my vile comes from the fact this a-hole endangered the lives of our soldiers and those civilians who’ve helped us.
I know Amnesty International (and I) agree with you about the earlier document leak. But do you really think that public knowledge of the torture committed and the extent of civilian deaths is going to cause any more danger to American interests than the actual commitment of the torture and the deaths? That’s the logic I’m not following here. It’s like suppression of the second round of Abu Ghraib photos. That was more about avoiding political difficulty here at home than it was about protecting American soldiers.
Also, I just found out that Ellsberg was tried, and found innocent, of espionage for the Pentagon Papers. What do you think is the legal difference between Ellsberg and Assange?
Your best point, and one that I’d not considered until now, is reminding us that this is all single-source material and is basically unverified.
Elsberg? Manning’s the guy who leaked them and he’s in jail as we speak. The Military isn’t going to the espionage route yet, probably expecting to see what comes out of the other charges. IE not charge him yet. However he could spend up to 52 years in jail.
Elsberg? Oh you meant the PEntagon Papers guy. Yeah he was found not guilty b/c the government fvcked up the case, not b/c he didn’t do it or some other reason. He was not guilty just like OJ was not guilty.
Thanks for sending me off in search of some history. I find it very interesting that Ellsberg truly believed he was doing something for the good of the country and ended up turning himself in to face the music.
But all of this shoot-the-messenger stuff is missing the point, in my eyes. Let’s verify these are real documents, and if they are, let’s talk about the morality and consequences of permanent war. That’s more important than whether or not some guy should or should not be imprisoned for the rest of his life.
I disagree. I think the fact that these documents were garnered through illegal activity then it will be impossible to use this information in any type of trial. How Elsberg got off. So by stealing the documents to “let the world know” the soldier and Ange fvcked up any chance of getting justice in our American courts. The cover up is absurd and people should be charged for crimes if in fact crimes were committed. If they out right knew there was no military value to the target, then yes they should be charged, but unfortunatley in a “war on terror” it’s hard to tell who the enemy is.
You’re assuming that some type of trial may occur. There’s no pull for that anywhere in the world, and the current administration wants to “look forward”. I don’t think the whistleblower was trying to bring individuals to justice (although that certainly ought to be done, if possible) but to stop two wars. Unfortunately, given the collective apathy over the news reported (as depicted in the original post) I think that outcome is unlikely. Maybe if the citizenry responds to the cartoon (for instance) in a “oh, s**t, what is going on that I don’t know about” way instead of a “wikileaks must die” kind of way, I’ll be proven wrong. Hope so. Endless war? no thank you.
I don’t think that will do anything to end the war. All it will do is unite people. Most Americans don’t like it when things are stolen and their “dirty laundry” is aired to the world we tend to get, well umm pi$$y. (Not all but most).
Well yeah the war on terror is an endless war, b/c you can’t stop crazy, and that’s what we’re fighting. However if we ignore terror, then they get emboldened (see progression from Embassay bombings to USS Cole to 9/11).
There really is no “good” answer to fight terrorism.
Sure there is. Take it out of the military paradigm and attack it like police work. Militaries are for fighting each other, not flagless fanatics.
And they’re not for nation-building, either. If we’ve learned nothing else from this last decade of two wars, it’s (I hope) that you can’t spread democracy from the other end of a gun barrel.
No way should you treat terrorism as a common crime. You can’t use standard police tactics to stop it, or else you will end up with way too many post attack investigations. Plus, you instill a certain “right” among the terrorists. You can’t worry about Miranda, when you’re more concerned about exactly where that dirty bomb is located. Or even worse have to use the restraint our police forces need to. When the person you’re fighting has no rules, it’s impossible to add more rules upon yourself and win.
You can spread democracy at the barrel of a gun, it’s just that the country needs to want it first, ie Haiti, Kuwait, Grenada/ etc other countries that have asked for our assistance.
I’m not saying that all foreign terrorists have rights under the U.S. constitution, I’m saying that you can’t “clear, hold, build” against an enemy that can melt into the general population. I’m saying treat terrorists as crooks, as scum, rather than elevating them to warrior status. I’m saying investigate terror plots and wiretap the foreign networks to find them, and catch people before their attacks are successful. The CIA needs to be more like the FBI.
So… been there lately?
Aaaaan Pundit Kitchen is taken off of my Google Reader.
The truth, she hurts.
I can’t fathom how these stupid comics keep landing on the front page. They seem to cause nothing but trouble whenever they appear.
Maybe that’s why—more page hits for the advertisers?
Especially sensitive information leaked during war time that could mean more trouble and even death to our countrymen. I guess that would hurt, them and their families…
Why? Do you think that *writing* about torture and civilian deaths is going to cause more death than, you know, *actual* torture and civilian deaths?
This stuff may be news to us, but it’s not news to the Iraqis who actually suffered through it.
Yes. News carelessly put out in the public like that could cause lots of problems for our military or any other Americans overseas or people in general. Huge riots were started and people were killed over the rumor a Koran was molested.
Are you talking about this story?
Not even remotely funny, though true. Then again, to go at war with another country entails trying to justify it with heroism. Not like they’re just gonna say “Yea, we’re just afraid of Muslims. Let’s get em!”
Sort of like clinging to the illusion 0bama is qualified to be president.
Actual Qualifications check.
Frank’s Expectations MrO fail.
oh well. Sorry MrO. Frank says you’re not qualified.
Everybody should be shocked (SHOCKED!) that people (especially armies) do terrible things in a war. No one could have seen that one coming!
And it’s really a terrible thing that Iraq is not the wonderful, non-antisemitic, non-mass murdering peaceful rich country anymore it was before the US decided to invade it…
So it was bad before so it’s not a problem that they may have made it worse? Wow, nice logic.
I don’t think we made it worse. Maybe a bit more unstable, but not necesarily worse. **wonders how the Kurds are doing up north without the Sadam death squads hunting them down** Oh right, we forgot about the oppressed people now free, makes for an inconvenient truth, you know, that some people are doing better in Iraq.
Actually, the Kurds had it pretty good under the no-fly zone. It has been more unstable since then. The Kurds for the most part didn’t really want to be part of the new Iraq, even though they might MAYBE get access to oil by repossessing Kirkuk (currently Arab territory). But instability means more fighting, and less security for a normal life.
Some things need to be kept classified. What this guy did is dissension. He should be tried by a court marshal. There is not argument to this. This is fact. And it is the law.
Wait….$hit….that won’t work, we don’t enforce our immigration laws, election eligibility laws, voting laws, the rights set forth in the Constitution, so why should we enforce any laws concerning military secrecy?
Yeah BITTER CLINGERS. Obama (and Reid and Pelosi) thinks he can keep insulting us and still win elections.
I didn’t realize the President, Reid, or Pelosi drew political cartoons. That explains the Tea Party’s problems with them. I wouldn’t want the person who drew this to lead America.
Bitterly clinging to their guns and religion? No one was supposed to hear that one.
Or much more recently.
The last part of the video (with the storm) was stupid and unnecissary, but it is interesting to see how Obama has ended up falling a little bit into the same partisan mindset that he was setting up to abolish. Amazing what 2 years running a country can do to a guy.
I don’t think he’s ever really made it out of campaign mode.
I think he’d have a lot more respect from independents right now IF he would try and stop his polarization. We need a leader who’s willing to stop the fvcking bickering. The PResident really shouldn’t be telling the other party to “sit in the back of the bus.” Or whatever he said. Here I was thinking he ran on a promise to unite the country, that verbiage doesn’t sound very uniting.
It’s a cat at the bottom. and this is why America went into the crapper, people wanting to be ignorant and uninvolved. if people educated themselves to what is really happening, especially in regard to what the republicans want do do to us, there wouldn’t be one of them left in office anywhere. i just heard yesterday that my own senator, Corker, wants to do away with 30-year fixed mortgages, as if that’s what caused the meltdown in the housing industry, not the crazy ARMs. just his way of trying to make home ownership a privelege only for the rich.
Unh? **hands Katie a tin foil hat**
You heard wrong. He wants to do away with Federal backing on 30 year fixed rate loans unless the borrower puts up a large down payment and has a strong credit score. That is what you used to need just to be able to buy a house before they loosened the standards. He isn’t saying those loans should be banned to other buyers, just that they shouldn’t be guaranteed by the government. It makes sense that they wouldn’t make a guarantee for someone who doesn’t have a good record of paying their bills and can’t afford to set aside money for a down payment.
I know when me and my family planned ot move we did our research to make sure we could pay for it.
A lot of people who have never bought a house don’t realize all the costs involved. I think a lot of the people who got bad loans were never understood all the costs that would be involved. The payment for the house is only one part of the cost of ownership, you also have to consider closing costs so that the seller’s agent and buyer’s agent are compensated along with the title company who researches and guarantees the title is clear, home insurance and in some cases a separate flood policy and a separate wind storm policy, property taxes, repairs, maintenance and utilities. It can eat up all of your money if you aren’t prepared for it.
I guess to some people if it doesn’t have government backing it doesn’t even exist!
Starting a war based on known false information is treasonous. Reporting that fact is not.
*sigh* Here’s your tinfoil hat. Now go and spend time with the Gubberment did 9/11 for Iraqi Oil folks, they’re by the cookie table.
Allow me to adjust your blinders, you weren’t supposed to be able to see that cookie table.